Sourcing copperclad

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
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steve howe
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Sourcing copperclad

Postby steve howe » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:21 pm

Looking to get some copperclad strip and sleepers, having not bought any in quantity for years, it seems to be limited to a very few suppliers of whom Marcway seem to have the biggest range. Am I just not looking hard enough or is this stuff in short supply these days?

Steve

Armchair Modeller

Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:34 pm

C&L are the other "obvious" source, and sell slightly thinner copperclad pcb strips, but you have probably sussed that out already ;)

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Paul Townsend » Tue Oct 18, 2016 5:15 pm

steve howe wrote:Looking to get some copperclad strip and sleepers, having not bought any in quantity for years, it seems to be limited to a very few suppliers of whom Marcway seem to have the biggest range. Am I just not looking hard enough or is this stuff in short supply these days?

Steve

The supplier to most MR stockists packed up this a year or so ago.
Thus our vendors have had to find new suppliers.
Prices quoted are much higher so some smaller stockists may not wish to continue.
C&L have continued to carry stock.

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Re6/6
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:09 pm

Hello Steve.

PM sent.

John
John

pete55
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby pete55 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:04 pm

Give Andrew Hartshorne a ring at Wizzard Models.....I know he sourced new stocks.

Philip Hall
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:39 pm

I have recently been having palpitations at the eye watering prices now being asked for this stuff. Must be thirty years since I bought any, so maybe I should have expected this! However, on looking around it does seem that Marcway are cheaper than C&L. I only want it for hidden track work so to a degree the width of sleepers is irrelevant. If you are able to find a cheaper source I would be interested to hear of it.

Philip

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:05 am

Philip Hall wrote:I have recently been having palpitations at the eye watering prices now being asked for this stuff. Must be thirty years since I bought any, so maybe I should have expected this! However, on looking around it does seem that Marcway are cheaper than C&L. I only want it for hidden track work so to a degree the width of sleepers is irrelevant. If you are able to find a cheaper source I would be interested to hear of it.

Philip

Be aware that Marcway's stock may be single sided cu clad.
I beleive all C&L's to be double sided.

I strongly recomend DS as SS can go banana shaped.

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John Bateson
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby John Bateson » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:55 am

This may be completely off the wall but ...

If the track is to be hidden then -
You need a firm smooth base
You need something like "Self Adhesive Copper Foil tape (Multi Purpose) -6mm in width & 3 meters in long" from eBay
or from Amazon Roll 30m Copper Foil Tape /EMI Conductive Adhesive for Guitar/Electronics 9.8mm for £2.11 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-Guitar-Electronics/dp/B00EDE49PQ

The tape self glues to the firm base, but longitudinally not across the track and then you fit the chairs.


John
Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
https://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:07 am

I would not expect to use chairs on hidden track, the tape is a good idea but I think I would still put it transversely as for sleepers, gapped of course, hidden track will work happily with sleeper spacing 3 times normal. Longitudinal tape may be worth a try on straights, tricky on curves though.
Regards
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Keith
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Albert Hall
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Albert Hall » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:36 pm

I can confirm that all of our copperclad at C+L is double sided. Cannot speak for other suppliers. At present we have 4ZC101B, D and E in stock but not in vast quantities. The sleeper length versions 4ZC101F and G are in very short supply. We also have the larger 7ZC101B generally used by 7mm scale modellers. The price from our suppliers certainly did rise very significantly a while back and we have no reason to believe that this is likely to be reversed.

Roy

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steve howe
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby steve howe » Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:53 pm

A bit of digging around seems to suggest that Marcway has the most comprehensive stock and most competitive prices. Wizard's is good value in long lengths in both 4mm and 3.3mm x 1.6, but he does not stock pre-cut sleeper lengths (as far as I could tell) Marcway does pre-cut sleepers in 100 and 1000 bags along with matching strip in PCB and fibreglass, however it is not clear if the sleepers are the same, I suspect old type PCB.

As Philip says for those of us who haven't bought any of this for a long while, considering it used to be the cheapest way of building 'scale' track, its an eye opener. Fortunately my embroyonic Light Railway idea does not need much trackwork!

Steve

Terry Bendall
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:03 am

grovenor-2685 wrote: Longitudinal tape may be worth a try on straights,


Would there be a problem of unequal expansion of the rail and copper tape if the rail is soldered to the tape. I would have concerns about the tape lifting.

Terry Bendall

David Dornom
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby David Dornom » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:39 pm

I have a reasonable stock of copperclad. Let me know what you want.My e-mail address is dornom@ eclipse.co.uk
David Dornom

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newport_rod
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby newport_rod » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:19 pm

steve howe wrote: pre-cut sleepers


Colin Craig Models sell 34 x 3.3 x 1.6mm copper-clad sleepers for P4/EM see http://colincraig4mm.co.uk/#/plain-track/4532599926
Rod

junctionmad

Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby junctionmad » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:03 pm

Why is anyone using copperclad for main steam track work ?

Dave

Philip Hall
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:27 am

The usual use is for hidden trackwork; it used to be the cheapest way to go as you only really need one sleeper out of four. In the early days it could be used with brass Kingsway chairs for visible track, and finds a use now with Masokits chairs, along with the Colin Craig flatbottom components. It's much easier than rivetting sleepers.

In my case it is down to cost and the most efficient use of time, hence the concern about the prices these days.

Philip

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newport_rod
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby newport_rod » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:09 am

junctionmad wrote:Why is anyone using copperclad for main steam track work ?


In planning the new NAGNAG/Newport MRS layout, Little Mill Junction, http://www.newportmrs.co.uk/littlemilljunction.htm which is set in 1954, we starting off blithely selecting which form of construction we would use for our bullhead track when, two to three years into the project we turned up a photograph of LMJ, taken in our period, plainly showing a section of the down main line laid in flat-bottom rail with BR1 baseplates. Luckily we hadn’t laid that section trackwork at the time but it led to an evaluation of the Colin Craig and Masokits systems for flat-bottom plain track, both of which use copper-clad sleepers. Eventually we selected the more-robust but less-appropriate-for-LMJ Masokits BR3 baseplates over the exquisite but more labour-intensive Colin Craig BR1 baseplates.

I wonder how many people who saw LMJ at this year’s AGM noticed the section laid in flat bottom, let alone the unprototypical BR3 baseplates.

Rod

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Tim V
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Tim V » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:39 pm

I spotted a strategic reserve of copperclad sleepers last night, for a large fee I could reveal the location of the tunnel, I also spotted a Black 5 there as well....
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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steve howe
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby steve howe » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:47 pm

junctionmad wrote:Why is anyone using copperclad for main steam track work ?

Dave

In my own case I am looking at very 'light railway' track. I originally looked at riveted ply sleepers turned upside down and FB rail soldered to the tinned rivet bases. However in the interests of ever getting it done, and having worn out several hair shirts in the interests of "getting it all right" I opted for copperclad. As most of the track will be covered by sand (don't ask - its a long story) it seemed the most pragmatic solution. Then began the learning curve on the sourcing of copperclad!

Steve

Armchair Modeller

Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby Armchair Modeller » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:48 pm

If most of the sleepers are covered in sand, why bother with complete sleepers anyway? Just stick small squares of copperclad on the baseboard under the line of the rails and solder the rails to those. Just use full sleepers for the bits of sleeper exposed to the elements - or bits of timber sleepers if it is just the middle or the ends in view. As long as your baseboard is not too wide, building the track in situ is pretty cool.

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steve howe
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Re: Sourcing copperclad

Postby steve howe » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:20 pm

If most of the sleepers are covered in sand, why bother with complete sleepers anyway? Just stick small squares of copperclad on the baseboard under the line of the rails and solder the rails to those.


Yes I've done that with quayside track, and when I made some stone block track years ago, but I like to be able to give the track panels a good wash and scrub and a spray with primer before it goes down, also I want the shape of the sleepers to be visible under the sand. I'll probably use a few ply sleepers in odd places where they would be exposed.


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