BS11 95R + 113A

[ClikC]

Does anyone have access to the BS11 standards for rails, in particular 95R BH and 113A FB.

I'm looking for dimmensional (in particular, radii and angles) information below the railhead, which is not covered by Scalefour Digest 1.2 'P4 Track and Wheel Standards', or specified in various online tables such as:

http://civilengineerme.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/standard-rail-sizes.html

Been working on a rail profile in solidworks, but I've hit a stummbling block in terms of un-specified dimmensions.



Regards

Matt

[grovenor-2685]

See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/track.htm
Scroll down to find the drawings, click on the small image to get a bigger one.
Regards

[ClikC]

See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/resources/track.htm
Scroll down to find the drawings, click on the small image to get a bigger one.
Regards

Perfect! Many thanks Keith.

Regards

Matt

[Terry Bendall]

The same information, and lots of other useful stuff can be found in British Railway Track - design, construction and maintenance Editor D.H. Coombes and published by The Permanent Way Institution. I have a copy of the fourth edition published in 1971 and bought second hand a few years ago.

Terry Bendall

[ClikC]

The same information, and lots of other useful stuff can be found in British Railway Track - design, construction and maintenance Editor D.H. Coombes and published by The Permanent Way Institution. I have a copy of the fourth edition published in 1971 and bought second hand a few years ago.

Terry Bendall

Thanks Terry, that particular publication is on my 'to buy' list, as in theory it should be applicable to WCML infrastructure upgrades for the 1974 electrification of the northern part of the WCML (my area of interest). But it's a little pricey ATM, with eBay and amazon asking around the £100 pound mark.

Regards

Matt

[grovenor-2685]

Matt,
I could let you have a pdf of the Railtrack p-Way design manual, it covers the 113 Vertical S&C and the UIC60 introduction but has little on earlier versions of FB track.
Regards

[Terry Bendall]

But it's a little pricey ATM, with eBay and amazon asking around the £100 pound mark.

I would agree. I certainly did not pay anything like that - in fact I would not have contemplated doing so. I cannot remember where is got my cope or how much but is was probably one of the well known booksellers - possibly Robert Humm.

Terry Bendall

[ClikC]

Matt,
I could let you have a pdf of the Railtrack p-Way design manual, it covers the 113 Vertical S&C and the UIC60 introduction but has little on earlier versions of FB track.
Regards

I certainly won't say no Keith, I’ll PM you my preferred e-mail address shortly.

I would agree. I certainly did not pay anything like that - in fact I would not have contemplated doing so. I cannot remember where is got my cope or how much but is was probably one of the well known booksellers - possibly Robert Humm.

Terry Bendall

TBH, £100 is quite reasonable compared to some of the general Mechanical and Electrical Engineering Textbooks I've purchased, but justification is low as I’m not currently working on a layout, and with Keith's image hosted on his website, I’ve been able to produce a short section of 113A in Soildworks.

Unfortunately I drew it in SW 2015 (being at college at the time), and I only have SW 2014 installed on my home machine, so I can't attach an image of the model at present. I'll try to do that tomorrow.

Regards

Matt

[jim s-w]

I’ve been able to produce a short section of 113A in Soildworks.

What are you planning to do with it Matt?

Jim

[ClikC]

What are you planning to do with it Matt?

Jim

Not a great deal TBH Jim. It's mainly for evaluating the 3'6" wheelset Soildworks model I’ve been working within the computer.

http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4818

I've produced an assembly in SW of a short section of track with a check rail, which I can sit the wheelsets on, with say various BTB measurements, and check everything is good. It's also been useful for explaining the wheel-rail interface to my lecturers who ask questions along the lines of 'Why does this need to be that radius?' or 'why does it need to be at that angle?'.

But, I have to admit I’m intrigued by DCC concepts 'Rail (Bullhead) 4mm Scale (Stainless Steel)', although the only person I’ve had feedback from with regards its use (name omitted), wasn't impressed with it. Regarding it as too soft and easily bent if not handled gently (which to me seems strange, and I can only assume is down to the grade/ type of stainless employed to avoid work hardening when it's being rolled) and requiring a LOT of heat (even more than you'd expect) in order to solder it.

From a purely aesthetic point of view, stainless looks the part. Potentially it could offer a higher coefficient of friction than nickel silver (the main reason I personally steer away from NS) although lower than that of existing steel rail, with no oxidisation problems which both NS and Steel can suffer from. I'll pick some up at some point, and make a short section of track as a test piece, just to try it out, if I find it workable I have to say I'd be interested in it being available as FB rail to 113A profile, so having a cross-section drawn to scale maybe of some later use.

http://www.dccconcepts.com/track-trackmaking-parts/dccconcepts-track-and-trackmaking-parts/rail-bullhead-4mm-scale-stainless-steel-l-960mm-10-pack
http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=stainle&product_id=12214

Regards

Matt

[Will L]

Like the concept, but I'm not convinced by the "no need to clean" claim, I think it is more than track oxidisation that I end polishing off.

[ClikC]

Hi all,

Here are some images showing the short section of BS11 113A I modeled in Soildworks, and a few snaps of it in an assembly.






Regards

Matt

[billbedford]

Yer butt...

Just how closely does available model rail match the scaled down prototype?

[ClikC]

Yer butt...

Just how closely does available model rail match the scaled down prototype?

My Solidworks settings are set to annotate all dimensions to two decimal places. I always round to 2dp, unless I have a specific reason to say use 3dp (18.83/2 for example).

Rail height in the SW model is 2.08mm, prototype is 158.75mm.

2.08*76.2 = 158.496 (3dp)

(158.496/158.75)*100=99.84%

So the scaled rail model is 0.16% smaller than the prototype in height.

Regards

Matt

[Mike Garwood]

So pretty close then!

[grovenor-2685]

I think Bill was asking for a compaqrison between the computer model and the actual model rail you can buy in the shop!
But you need some pretty good equipment to measure that to the required accuracy, even though its only the crown and gauge corner profile that matters.
Regards

[ClikC]

I think Bill was asking for a compaqrison between the computer model and the actual model rail you can buy in the shop!
But you need some pretty good equipment to measure that to the required accuracy, even though its only the crown and gauge corner profile that matters.
Regards

Ahh, my mistake.

Prior to the Engineering Faculty Campus to its current location in 2012, we used to have a couple of Shadowgraphs (Optical Comparators), as I used them when I was doing an AVRQ in mechanical engineering in 2009. But I've no idea where they went, I suspect they we're scrapped along with all the fantastic Colchester Lathes. I've been asking about them recently, because I hope to measure the conformity of the tyre profile for my wheels, once machined. But it's not looking good.

There is talk about getting a CMM (coordinate measuring machine), but that’s not likely to be brilliant at measuring profile of a rail that is ~2mm in height.

My guess would be somewhere between 'not very' and 'meh'.

Regards

Matt

[Martin Wynne]

Just how closely does available model rail match the scaled down prototype?

The most significant discrepancy is in web thickness. The web of model rail is very much overscale thickness. This has consequences in the design of functional chairs, and in filing the planing on switch rails.

Martin.

[Terry Bendall]

Prior to the Engineering Faculty Campus to its current location in 2012, we used to have a couple of Shadowgraphs (Optical Comparators), as I used them when I was doing an AVRQ in mechanical engineering in 2009. But I've no idea where they went, I suspect they we're scrapped along with all the fantastic Colchester Lathes.

A very sad and short sighted decision on the part of the university.

A few years ago I did some work on checking the accuracy of wheel profiles and found a firm with a shadowgraph machine that would do the work. If you send me a PM I will let you have the contact details.

Terry Bendall