Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

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Penrhos1920
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Penrhos1920 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:15 pm

James Moorhouse wrote:Sorry to be so "last word" on this thread, but no-one has so far offered any practical benefits of using sleepers without holes;


Well I'm convinced having read the above. But since you need convincing. Try making, not hypothesising, late 19th early 20th century track using code 60 rail and chairs. Then once you've managed to ensure the chairs don't fall down the holes please tell me how you did it.


James Moorhouse wrote: I genuinely believe those who administer our Society listen to the membership, but we can't base our decisions on gut instinct and whim! I'm open-minded about alternative products,
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dal-t
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby dal-t » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:19 pm

David Thorpe wrote:I cannot imagine a scenario where such stress is placed on a sleeper once laid to cause it to break


The context of my experience was lifting for re-laying - but maybe I just used over-strength glue, or didn't provide enough support in the lifting operation.

Edited - <150 characters and I still manage a typo
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David B
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby David B » Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:14 pm

I must say I have been rather surprised (and a tad irritated) by the strength of resistance to what I thought was a quite reasonable request.

I was not aware that C&L had such sleepers in their range and in keeping with the Stores not duplicating trader's stock, whole (un-punched) sleepers would not be an appropriate addition to the Store's list. If I had known this earlier, we would not have had the exchanges above.

I have just bought some bits for my first foray in to track building at the forthcoming Missenden Weekend and I concur with Mr Thorpe's comment on the cost of components. I will be making as much as I can myself in order to keep the cost down and no, I won't be buying any hol(e)y sleepers to use with functional chairs.

billbedford
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby billbedford » Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:21 pm

David Thorpe wrote:Having said that, if I was starting again today, I would be seriously dismayed and quite possibly put off by the current price of track components.


It appears that the Society was having difficulty finding enough volunteers willing to spend hours on the boring and repetitive job of making sleepers. Of course you are free to make your own, but you may find your pet project slipping into the 'needs more than one lifetime' category.
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:02 am

billbedford wrote:It appears that the Society was having difficulty finding enough volunteers willing to spend hours on the boring and repetitive job of making sleepers


Yes to some extent. I did the sleeper making for about 12 years but it was getting a bit too much with all the other things in my life so I asked the Committee to find someone else to take it on. Editor James agreed to do it. Related to this the Committee discussed the idea of getting them laser cut (a) to save the labour of the job and (b) to ensure a better quality job. There had been at times issues with the quality.

If you want better quality then there is a cost but I have no idea how it compares with C&L wooden sleepers. Building you own track will be a lot cheaper than using Exactoscale components and some people of course will always want wooden sleepers anyway.

Terry Bendall

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Martin Wynne » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:07 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:I did the sleeper making for about 12 years

That looks like a candidate for Danny's "Unsung Heroes" award: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4085

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John McAleely
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby John McAleely » Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:23 pm

Martin Wynne wrote:
Terry Bendall wrote:I did the sleeper making for about 12 years

That looks like a candidate for Danny's "Unsung Heroes" award: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4085


Actually, it isn't. The citation must be for some specific act in the year in question. I understand this is to differentiate it from any notion of 'lifetime achievement' type awards.

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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:11 am

Martin Wynne wrote:That looks like a candidate for Danny's "Unsung Heroes" award:


Certainly not. Just a job that needed doing.

John McAleely wrote:Actually, it isn't.


Correct.

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essdee
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby essdee » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:52 am

But nevertheless, agreeing with Martin, a modest Terry and many others deserve our grateful thanks for undertaking so many repetitive and tedious Society 'jobs that need doing' over prolonged periods. The sleeper cutting and punching sounds particularly wearisome, from my own limited experience of preparing turnout timbering..........

BW

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Barry Davis
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Barry Davis » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:15 am

Hi John, The laser cut sleepers look rearly good, and will be far superior to the Joe Brook Smith sleepers that I have been using in the past. BUT at 1.90 for a sheet of 48, they are over three times the price of the JBS sleepers. To complete the track laying on my layout, I still require over 29,000 more sleepers. The new price for the plywood sleepers means that the cost of sleepers for Barnham Junction have increased from 354.00 to a staggering 1,160.90. My queation is, will the society be able to offer any discounts for bulk purchasing of the new laser cut JBS sleepers. Regards Barry Davis

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David Thorpe
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby David Thorpe » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:08 am

Barry Davis wrote: The new price for the plywood sleepers means that the cost of sleepers for Barnham Junction have increased from 354.00 to a staggering 1,160.90.


And then add about £2700 for chairs.... :x

DT

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Ian Everett
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Ian Everett » Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:05 am

John McAleely wrote:
Martin Wynne wrote:
Terry Bendall wrote:I did the sleeper making for about 12 years

That looks like a candidate for Danny's "Unsung Heroes" award: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=4085


Actually, it isn't. The citation must be for some specific act in the year in question. I understand this is to differentiate it from any notion of 'lifetime achievement' type awards.


OK how about 12 "Unsung Hero" awards? ;)

It's important that the Society does not produce items for which there is a suitable alternative from a good supplier, so I see why we are not replicating the sleeper strip supplied by C&L but has the Society thought of producing turnout timbers pre-cut and punched to produce Brook Smith turnout kits for the more common sizes? Or is the use of solely plastic chairs now thought to be best practice? (I will shortly have to embark on turnout construction and my gut feeling (see above!) is that soldering to rivets will give a more tweakable product.)

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John McAleely
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby John McAleely » Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:59 pm

Barry Davis wrote:Hi John, My queation is, will the society be able to offer any discounts for bulk purchasing of the new laser cut JBS sleepers



I don't know, but I can ask. If I've done the maths right, it looks like our laser cut sleepers for members are cheaper than the c+l laser cut sleepers, even at their bulk 500 rate.

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John McAleely
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby John McAleely » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:48 pm

Barry Davis wrote:will the society be able to offer any discounts for bulk purchasing of the new laser cut JBS sleepers


John McAleely wrote:I don't know, but I can ask. If I've done the maths right, it looks like our laser cut sleepers for members are cheaper than the c+l laser cut sleepers, even at their bulk 500 rate.


I have asked, and there is not currently seen to be scope to routinely list a bulk purchase rate in the stores.

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Flymo748
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:16 am

John McAleely wrote:
Barry Davis wrote:Hi John, My queation is, will the society be able to offer any discounts for bulk purchasing of the new laser cut JBS sleepers


I don't know, but I can ask. If I've done the maths right, it looks like our laser cut sleepers for members are cheaper than the c+l laser cut sleepers, even at their bulk 500 rate.


Apropos of pricing, I've just had cause to go over to the EMGS Stores.

Their recently revised pricing for 8'6" sleepers is £6.00 per hundred, or 50% more expensive than you can buy them here. They don't appear to do any 9'0" sleepers at all.

So I'm afraid that it looks like there really aren't any "cheap" options for track building any more.

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David B
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby David B » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:17 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
Apropos of pricing, I've just had cause to go over to the EMGS Stores.

Their recently revised pricing for 8'6" sleepers is £6.00 per hundred, or 50% more expensive than you can buy them here. They don't appear to do any 9'0" sleepers at all.

So I'm afraid that it looks like there really aren't any "cheap" options for track building any more.


I have bought 1.5mm ply from Model Scenery Supplies and am cutting it up myself. I am using plastic chairs so not making holes in the sleepers, but it is more cost effective.

I also bought 1.5mm basswood sheet which I find easier to cut. I got it a year or two ago from a shop in Lincoln but I don't know if it is still there. A Google search threw up Bromley Craft Products and 4D Model Shop.

martin goodall
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby martin goodall » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:45 pm

The advantage of supplying ply sleepers with holes punched or laser-cut into them, is that it gives the purchaser the choice of assembling the track either by the Brook Smith method (soldering the rail to rivets through the sleepers) or using functional rail chairs, according to preference.

If sleepers are supplied unpunched, they can only be used with functional chairs, unless the purchaser then runs them through a punch tool - an extra task that can be avoided if they are pre-punched.

The same principle could be applied to laser-cut track bases for complete point and crossing assemblies, although I appreciate that where individual point timbers are supplied it has to be left to the user to punch them according the particular requirements of the formation in which they are to be used.

chrisyates
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby chrisyates » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:52 pm

I'm sure you won't have overlooked the need to vary the spacing of sleepers towards the ends of track panels? Certainly the GWR did this, and I think it was common practice among most/all lines?

Regards,

CHRIS

JimF
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby JimF » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:45 pm

Would it really be that big a deal to have a small supply produced without holes? I am sure I am not the only member who belongs for all the other aspects of railway modelling the society covers, but actually is working to EM gauge.

I'm sure the chairs placed at EM gauge would leave either one hole uncovered, or both partly uncovered, so that precludes me from buying them.

Jim F

Tim Horn
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby Tim Horn » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:14 pm

Hi Jim,

It's no problem at all.

Kind regards,
Tim

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Stores Range: Laser Cut Brook Smith Sleepers

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:34 pm

JimF wrote:Would it really be that big a deal to have a small supply produced without holes? I am sure I am not the only member who belongs for all the other aspects of railway modelling the society covers, but actually is working to EM gauge.

I'm sure the chairs placed at EM gauge would leave either one hole uncovered, or both partly uncovered, so that precludes me from buying them.

Jim F

I am certain you will find that the chairs will fully cover the holes even when the track is set to EM gauge, chairs are at least 4mm wide, the holes only 1mm.
Regards
Keith


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