"old" flat bottom track

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
andrewnummelin
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"old" flat bottom track

Postby andrewnummelin » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:05 pm

To contrast with the bullhead on the main line, I've decided to lay a couple of sidings using flat bottom track, not the modern variety on baseplates but late 19th century type where the rail appears to be spiked directly to the sleepers. I prefer to use plywood sleepers but I don't fancy "getting it all right" and making scale spikes! I guess the only option is to use glue but which type? Cyanoacrylate gel, rapid setting epoxy, contact?????? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Natalie Graham

Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Natalie Graham » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:14 pm

No need to make the spikes, they are readily available on the other side of the Atlantic. I believe they tend to be a bit over scale so you could try the ones for N gauge such as Micro-Engineering's Micro Spikes

David Knight
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby David Knight » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:18 pm

Andrew,

The answer is hot glue, as in the type used in glue guns. Lay a small bead on the bottom of the rail, place in position and then re-heat with a soldering iron on the rail. I did it with code 55 FB for my Nether Upton Light Railway and it has held up for several exhibitions. You can see the results below.
Code 55 FB.jpg

Brake 3rd.jpg


Cheers,

David

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Martin Wynne
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Martin Wynne » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:20 pm

Proto-87 scale spikes from Andy Reichert: http://www.proto87.com/product1908.html

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Tim V
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Tim V » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:38 am

Or you could use ordinary rivets, assembled upside down, the rail soldered to that.


(edited for speling mishteak)
Tim V
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steve howe
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby steve howe » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:17 pm

Or you could use ordinary rivets, assembled upside down, the rail soldered to that.


Years ago there was an article in Railway Modeller featuring the Maddwy Railway in P4 (possible by Trevor Hughes?) using very fine FB rail (code 40 or 55 if memory serves) the builder quoted it as "misshapen fusewire". The technique Tim mentions was the same, using rivets set in ply sleepers with the sleepers set face down, the cork underlay being recessed to accommodate the rivet heads. If I recall rightly, the rail foot was tinned prior to assembly and the rivet's feet also tinned so that the rails were simply sweated into place.

Steve

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Martin Wynne
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:48 pm

Tim V wrote:Or you could use ordinary rivets, assembled upside down, the rail soldered to that.

Tony Miles used the same method for the light FB track on Adavoyle Junction. The sleepers were double ply glued together after riveting, the lower one having the hole enlarged to form a recess for the rivet head. You can just about see the increased sleeper thickness, standard-gauge and narrow gauge:

Image

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...

andrewnummelin
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby andrewnummelin » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:37 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions. The rail is on its way so it won't be long before I experiment with a couple of the techniques.
Regards,

Andrew Nummelin

Carlos
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Carlos » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:32 pm

Hi Andrew,

I also have an ancient prototype (~1915) that uses flat bottom, being set in Spain.

I did a prototypically accurate straight track using the hot glue method and wood sleepers, and it worked well. Some of the joints were not very strong and I reinforced them with cyano.

Them I tried the same method for a test track (for testing my never-ending first loco kit) in the context of CHEAG challenge. This consisted of curved track with a S shape, using a reduced number of sleepers without respecting the prototype practice. I was unable to use the hot glue, since the joints weren't reliable or too flexible to stand up the tension from the curved rail. I did tried 2 brands of hot glue bars without success. Curiously, the bond was very strong at the metal side but very weak at the wood one, even after sanding it to get a rough surface.

Being a test track and not very worried about its appearance, I moved to the copperclap sleepers method, just soldering the rail to them. That way I got a very strong track and a fast and easy building method.

Geraint Hughes used the wood sleepers and flush rivets for its Obbekaer layout, getting very good results (see the Scaleforum 2014 retrospective).

I'm not yet sure of what method I would use for a layout, my plans being delayed anoter 10 years... but anyway, I can't see any sleeper in the few pictures of the track I have. Maybe at that time they hide the sleepers under the ballast?

With best wishes,
Carlos

David Knight
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby David Knight » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:37 pm

Carlos,

Just out of curiosity, what size rail were you using? I've had no problems with code 55 and hot glue on the S4 society's ply sleepers.

Cheers,

David

Carlos
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby Carlos » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:25 pm

David Knight wrote:Carlos,

Just out of curiosity, what size rail were you using? I've had no problems with code 55 and hot glue on the S4 society's ply sleepers.

Cheers,

David


Hi David,

Bothh the rail and sleepers where from the Stores, the rail height is 2.08 mm and the sleepers where the switch and crossing timbering to be cut to the right length.

I used 3 different glue brands, the first one being the strongest. I was not able to buy the same twice...
Maybe the method can also make a difference, I used a template with the sleepers sticked by double side tape, and after building it I removed the template. Building the track on site probably was a better option, as having the sleepers fixed would help to get things on place.

Regards,
Carlos

David Knight
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Re: "old" flat bottom track

Postby David Knight » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:52 am

carlos wrote:Maybe the method can also make a difference, I used a template with the sleepers sticked by double side tape, and after building it I removed the template. Building the track on site probably was a better option, as having the sleepers fixed would help to get things on place.

Regards,
Carlos


I built all mine in situ except for the frogs which I made up at the bench so there was less chance for things to move around once the glue had set. When I do have the odd problem (usually at the ends of the layout sections) I just shave a bit of glue off the stick, tuck it under the rail and apply the iron. Works a treat :thumb

Edit: I just had a quick measure. My rail works out to be 1.397 mm high, that would also be a factor.

Cheers,

David


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