Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

[steve howe]

Can anyone advise on this.. I've built a few Masokits stretcher bars for my project but not yet installed them, they appear to be a sort of generic version of the flat bar type. Would there have been two of these used per turnout, or would there have been one at the toe end connected to the rodding, with the second being a simple round bar? Given my project is a '20's GWR freight only yard, I wonder if these flat bar style stretchers are too elaborate, and whether plain round bars would have been used instead?

Steve

[Russ Elliott]

Steve - I saw a bunch of downloadable turnout templates in the members' area of the site a couple of days ago, but I can't find them now!!

[Paul Willis]

Steve - I saw a bunch of downloadable turnout templates in the members' area of the site a couple of days ago, but I can't find them now!!

s4-tracktemplates.php

I really must find the time to write the note announcing these, and to go in the News as well...

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman

[Tim V]

C10 templates, that's different from when I built my track, I had to draw my own

[martin goodall]

C10 templates, that's different from when I built my track, I had to draw my own

Me too, and both my C10s are curved turnouts, but it was quite an easy exercise. As built, these turnouts have never given me a moment's trouble.

"The youngsters these days, they don't they were born. They just press buttons on the computer and Templot does it all for them. Now in my day.............................etc. etc."

[John Fitton]

So if I right click and print to my 3D printer I get a ready made C10 turnout ready for installation?

In our dreams, I suspect.

John Fitton

[Will L]

So if I right click and print to my 3D printer I get a ready made C10 turnout ready for installation?

In our dreams, I suspect.

John Fitton

Oh I don't know, if your into the fashion for battery powered and wifi controlled loco's why not. How about it Martin, an interesting next development for Templot? I'm sure Bill could fill you in on the 3D print technicalities.

Will

[Martin Wynne]

How about it Martin, an interesting next development for Templot? I'm sure Bill could fill you in on the 3D print technicalities.

Hi Will,

Templot has always been able to export 3D DXF files for CAD. Here's one for example:




I just need another half-lifetime to spare to add the full chairing, baseplate, tie-plate, rail section, stretcher bar, and other details on an infinite number of different templates on any radius in any scale or gauge or prototype worldwide. The new Society templates linked to above are all dead-straight, REA bullhead, LNER-based. A drop in the ocean compared to what you can do in Templot. . For example:



Martin.

[Russ Elliott]

http://www.scalefour.org/forum/s4-tracktemplates.php

Thanks, Paul, but where does that live on the site menu system?

[RobM]

Russ.......Members Area Index.......below S4 News Archive....
Rob

[jayell]

just had a look there myself in the hope of finding a template for catch points, preferably GWR pattern single blade type. I nearly got there with templot but as usual the way that program works defeated me and I gave up.

If anyone has developed catch point templates please post them on that page

John,
who deleted templot from his wife's win7 system due to frustration then relented and re-installed it

[grovenor-2685]

For catch points one would usually just use any turnout with the switch that you want and then just ignore the rest of the switch. Templot does allow you to remove the bits you don't want. IIRC by selecting mouese actions, adjust length, then shortening it. But why bother, scissors on the print will do just as well.
Keith

[Martin Wynne]

just had a look there myself in the hope of finding a template for catch points, preferably GWR pattern single blade type. I nearly got there with Templot but as usual the way that program works defeated me and I gave up.

Hi John,

You have only to ask on the Templot forum. Lots of friendly help there: http://85a.co.uk/forum/

For GWR catch points you really need the data in David Smith's book to create custom switches in Templot, because they aren't just the standard GWR switches. There is a whole chapter on GWR catch points and 2 pages of template drawings (p76-77).

However, the full range of standard GWR switches is already in Templot, and it is very easy to omit an unwanted switch rail:




Then untick the turnout-road crossing rail tickbox:



regards,

Martin.

[jayell]

For GWR catch points you really need the data in David Smith's book to create custom switches in Templot, because they aren't just the standard GWR switches. There is a whole chapter on GWR catch points and 2 pages of template drawings (p76-77).

I will look for a copy

However, the full range of standard GWR switches is already in Templot, and it is very easy to omit an unwanted switch rail:


Then untick the turnout-road crossing rail tickbox:

I watched the video, then tried to create a parallel turnout plus a second turnout on the siding track, removed all the surplus rail bits,, slid the turnout to the location on the curve leading from turnout 1 and tried to save the arrangement and print it.

This is where me and templot don't get on, I can print the first turnout with the parallel siding OK, but nothing I did resulted in the whole group being printed. So I gave up.

I know what the whole assembly should look like and I have a "Timber Tracks" turnout to build the turnout on so don't need a templot template for that (only a C&L turnout kit).

I still don't know how the catchpoint was operated from the leverframe building on the platform as no photos I have found give that sort of detail. Maybe the Smith book will sort this out for me as I want working rodding on my diorama.

The layout won't have any electrical connections at all so will have to move the turnout, catchpoint and ground signal manually with connections from the rodding which will disappear into the tunnel under the platform linked to non-scale rodding below the baseboard.

I accept I am going against convention in what I want to do (including having a battery powered loco if at all possible) and that my ideas are going to cause me problems but that is part of the fun.

John

[Martin Wynne]

Hi John,

See: http://gwsg.org.uk/GWSG_Publications.html


To print all the templates from Templot:

but nothing I did resulted in the whole group being printed. So I gave up.

One quick question on the Templot forum would have got you that answer in minutes.

Martin.

[jayell]

Hi Martin

I have written letter to order book and it will get posted today.

Despite your attempts to help me with templot I've still had no success in printing a template which includes the catchpoint turnout rail.

Clearly I have done something wrong somewhere in trying to create this bit of the template but have no idea where and I cannot spend any more time trying to understand templot. I am fairly computer literate having been building my own systems for the past 15 years and running Linux since 2001 but templot defeats me.

Before switching to Linux I'd been using OS/2 and before that CP/M Concurrent so have never seriously used a Microsoft OS apart from trying to sort out any problems my wife has with her XP system and get really frustrated by it in the process. I got a cheap Win 7 box as a fallback system against the time XP no longer works so am able to play with it but spend more time swearing at the way MSWin works than getting anything done on that box.

I am not going to make any more attempts to understand templot but will rely on David Smith's book to sort out my catchpoint when it arrives.

[Martin Wynne]

I am not going to make any more attempts to understand Templot

I understand John. I know some folks find Templot too baffling and if I could only grasp where the stumbling block is I could do something about it. Many others do take to Templot -- for some it becomes almost an addiction.

If you change your mind do please remember the Templot forum if you get stuck: http://85a.co.uk/forum . Lots of friendly help there.

By the way, Templot runs very well on Linux using Wine -- there is no need to use Windows or any Microsoft code if you don't want to.

regards,

Martin.

[John Lewis]

"johnlewis wrote:
I am not going to make any more attempts to understand Templot"


Not me. I am still (occasionally) battling on!

John (Lewis)

Selsdon

[martin goodall]

If John Lewis really can't get on with Templot, and would prefer to do it the 'old-fashioned' way, he might like to look at the article on Layout Planning in MRJ No.71 (if he can find a copy) which describes, among other things, the way I produced 'non-standard' turnout templates for the Burford Branch.

A calculator, ruler and a pencil are all the tools that are required, although a set of 'railway curves' could also be useful.

[jayell]

If John Lewis really can't get on with Templot, and would prefer to do it the 'old-fashioned' way, he might like to look at the article on Layout Planning in MRJ No.71 (if he can find a copy) which describes, among other things, the way I produced 'non-standard' turnout templates for the Burford Branch.

A calculator, ruler and a pencil are all the tools that are required, although a set of 'railway curves' could also be useful.

Thanks Martin, I don't really need any layout planning as the layout of my diorama is about as basic as it could be consisting of a stretch of straight track approximately 400 feet long (full size) with a single siding, initially the side was a dead end but in 1906 a second turnout was added to make it a goods loop. Both ends of the siding have catch points and ground signals (as far as I can tell from photos) but I don't intend including the 1906 addition in the diorama.

The first turnout was controlled by a four lever ground frame in a small building on the platform and the second turnout by another 2 lever ground frame that may or may not have had a protective building. Both ground frames controlled by the train staff. There was a signal at both ends of the station but they would be too far away to be included in my diorama. I want to include working point rodding so may need to suggest the connection to the signals in the form of dummy wires leading off scene for completeness.

My initial reason for trying to use templot was trying to understand how the GWR constructed branch line track but it looks like I really need David Smith's book for this. I am very new to 'real' railway practice so had no idea how things like turnouts and catchpoints were worked back in the early 20th century. I am in fact using Timber Tracks plywood plain track and turnout bases so they take care of setting out sleepering and will use a C&L turnout kit so the design side is pretty well taken care of. Plastic chairs glued to the sleepers will avoid any need for soldering and I'll be quite happy for the steel bullhead rail to rust as I don't require any electrical conductivity.

I think I may be able to get away with scale size operating rods glued to the point blades as they will only move for 'demonstration' purposes.

I am sure templot is very useful for anyone designing model railway layouts a bit more complicated than mine but I am not interested in 'playing 'trains and my original intention was for the diorama be be a static display as accurate as I can get to what would have been seen on one station on the Bridport branch circa 1912.

[Martin Wynne]

I am in fact using Timber Tracks plywood plain track and turnout bases so they take care of setting out sleepering and will use a C&L turnout kit so the design side is pretty well taken care of.

Hi John,

Well yes and maybe no. Looking at the Timber Tracks site ( http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php ... y&path=8_9 ) it seems all the designs are for flexible switches, apart from the NER interlaced turnout. So are the C&L turnout kits. The GWR introduced flexible switches only in 1930, and then to a different design from the REA. But the old-type GWR loose-heel switches remained in place for many years on branch and secondary lines. Perhaps you are having a custom timber base made?

When you get David Smith's book you will be able to see the design differences.

regards,

Martin.

[Paul Willis]

"johnlewis wrote:
I am not going to make any more attempts to understand Templot"


Not me. I am still (occasionally) battling on!

John (Lewis)

Selsdon

That made me grin...

Old lags will remember being completely confused by David Lane (Salisbury) and David Lane (Aylesbury), if I remember their geographical nomenclature correctly!

Cheers
Flymo

[martin goodall]

I don't really need any layout planning .

Actually "Layout Planning" in MRJ No.71 wasn't really about layout planning (!) The real subject was track geometry and how to go about designing the track formation. It applied to laying out a single point as much as it did to the track design for an entire layout.

[grovenor-2685]

That made me grin...

Old lags will remember being completely confused by David Lane (Salisbury) and David Lane (Aylesbury), if I remember their geographical nomenclature correctly!

Indeed, "David Bigcheeseplant" does reduce the chance of duplication.
Keith

[jayell]

Old lags will remember being completely confused by David Lane (Salisbury) and David Lane (Aylesbury), if I remember their geographical nomenclature correctly!

If I'd known when I signed up I'd have used for years at work and still use as my computer ID "jayell" There were several other Johns at work so we had johnmac, johnH, JB, and me.

There is a subtle difference here as the other John is John Lewis and I am johnlewis so in theory we cannot be confused with each other

It was the main reason I chose to identify myself with a photo, something I rarely do. I could of course leave the Society and rejoin using jayell as my name

John