Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
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Flymo748
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:05 pm

johnlewis wrote:If I'd known when I signed up I'd have used for years at work and still use as my computer ID "jayell" There were several other Johns at work so we had johnmac, johnH, JB, and me.


Hence the longstanding use, for social purposes of an identifier that is somewhat rare. I've yet to meet any other lawnmowers that undertake finescale railway modelling, or indeed motorbike racing, from where the aforementioned originated back in the mists of time, when the internet was still young...

johnlewis wrote:There is a subtle difference here as the other John is John Lewis and I am johnlewis so in theory we cannot be confused with each other ;)


Unless of course one is merely bunburying, and one is John in town and jayell in the country...

johnlewis wrote:It was the main reason I chose to identify myself with a photo, something I rarely do. I could of course leave the Society and rejoin using jayell as my name

John


I fear that is a tad drastic to take as a measure of rectification. I'm sure that we can all keep a mental note of who is be-Templotted, and who is not...

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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jayell
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby jayell » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:38 pm

Flymo748 wrote:Unless of course one is merely bunburying, and one is John in town and jayell in the country...


Nope - I am William to officialdom, John to family and friends and jayell or JohnLewis on my computer except when I need to be zen57162. I have got rid of any other monikers. as it was getting too confusing - it is bad enough trying to keep track of all those passwords one needs on line

john

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jayell
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby jayell » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:17 am

Martin Wynne wrote:Well yes and maybe no. Looking at the Timber Tracks site ( http://www.timbertracks.co.uk/index.php ... y&path=8_9 ) it seems all the designs are for flexible switches, apart from the NER interlaced turnout. So are the C&L turnout kits. The GWR introduced flexible switches only in 1930, and then to a different design from the REA. But the old-type GWR loose-heel switches remained in place for many years on branch and secondary lines. Perhaps you are having a custom timber base made?

When you get David Smith's book you will be able to see the design differences.


I don't know if the designer/seller of the track bases is into custom track bases so will use the turnout track base I got from C&L as the basis for the turnout but modifying it to suit GWR practice. I will have plenty of "ply offcuts" from the plain trackbases when I have finished constructing the 44' 6" panels which I can use to make any long timbers needed.

I will be visiting the C&L stand at RailWells to get a supply of the plastic crossing chairs and I'll also need some switch blades, a common crossing and some fishplates. I think I will adopt David Smiths suggestion of using an etched brass fishplate at join between switch rails and closure rails, rather than trying to pivot the switchblade at the heel.

I know the switch blades will not be made the way the GWR did them but as I 'm not sure I understand the process as explained by David Smith on page 11 but he seems to accept that the type of planing normally used for model switch blades is what most modelers will use. I am going to need to practice a bit to get the joggle in the stock rail reasonably accurate. I have tried using a pair of pliers as suggested by D Smith but my first attempt got the joggle much too big but I have plenty of steel BH rail to play about with.

John

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Andy W
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby Andy W » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:01 pm

John,

I think hoping to get everything correct first go is what leads to many projects being abandoned. This hobby is a learning curve - one we never reach the end of. Perhaps the the society's moto should be "Getting everything right - eventually."?

It all sounds good.

Andy
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

billbedford
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby billbedford » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:13 am

johnlewis wrote:I will be visiting the C&L stand at RailWells to get a supply of the plastic crossing chairs and I'll also need some switch blades, a common crossing and some fishplates.


C&L don't handle Timber Tracks any more. You will have to contact Brian Lewis directly.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

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jayell
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby jayell » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:58 am

billbedford wrote:
johnlewis wrote:I will be visiting the C&L stand at RailWells to get a supply of the plastic crossing chairs and I'll also need some switch blades, a common crossing and some fishplates.


C&L don't handle Timber Tracks any more. You will have to contact Brian Lewis directly.


I bought all the stock that C&L had of the 44' 6" plain track templates and wondered if they would be enough then found out that Timber Tracks had a website so any future purchases will be from them but Brian doesn't do the chairs etc need to actually build on them so will still have to buy from C&L.

In fact I've quite enjoyed buying from them as the website is easy to use and anything I've bought has turned up the day after ordering it.
(I've no connection other than as a satisfied customer)

John

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Dave K
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby Dave K » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:56 am

johnlewis wrote: I am going to need to practice a bit to get the joggle in the stock rail reasonably accurate. I have tried using a pair of pliers as suggested by D Smith but my first attempt got the joggle much too big but I have plenty of steel BH rail to play about with.


John,

If you look at Morgan Design TOU item in the Society stores, which will be at Wells, you will find a turnout operating unit which comes with a joggle maker http://www.scalefour.org/eshop/images/DN143OU.jpg .

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jayell
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby jayell » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:23 am

dave k wrote:If you look at Morgan Design TOU item in the Society stores, which will be at Wells, you will find a turnout operating unit which comes with a joggle maker http://www.scalefour.org/eshop/images/DN143OU.jpg .


I wonder if they will sell me just the joggle maker bit :D

John

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steve howe
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby steve howe » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:08 pm

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but my query concerns catch points on freight only lines. My current project is a shunting plank based on the Inglenook principle with the addition of a run-round loop.

Lower rose goods plan1 copy.jpg


I have suggested a catch point at the exit from the loop, before entering the yard itself. Would a catch point have been appropriate here? or indeed would catch points have been used at all on a freight-only line worked on One-engine-in-steam principles?

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jayell
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby jayell » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:17 pm

johnlewis wrote:
dave k wrote:If you look at Morgan Design TOU item in the Society stores, which will be at Wells, you will find a turnout operating unit which comes with a joggle maker http://www.scalefour.org/eshop/images/DN143OU.jpg .


I wonder if they will sell me just the joggle maker bit :D

John


I forgot to ask for it at Wells so I ordered the Brassmaster turnout stuff on-line and it arrived today.

Having read the instructions twice I suddenly realised how I was supposed to use the 'joggle jig'. I'll need to make joggles in three pieces of rail so hope it will stand up tho this (the instructions say it will do two).

The instructions I have now downloaded for assembling a turnout are also complicated and of course are for a traditional one with electrical isolation etc, also got point rodding stools & cranks but they are going to be really fiddly to assemble, watchmaking stuff :cry:

John

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:20 pm

Would a catch point have been appropriate here?
Depends on the gadients involved and what the loop is used for, catch points were provided to catch vehicles that broke away from the back of a loose coupled unbraked train going uphill.
Trap points on the other hand are required to protect a passenger line from goods lines and sidings to protect the passenger line from any unauthorised move.

They might be provided on a goods only line if the railway concerned considered that there was a significant risk from unauthorised moves at the specific location, another possibility used in such cases would be a scotch block that could be locked over the rail, better for the odd rolling wagon as it would be usually stopped rather than derailed.
Keith

Terry Bendall
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:47 am

steve howe wrote:Would a catch point have been appropriate here?


Bob Essery in his books on Railway Signalling and Track Plans mentions on page 29 that in Board of Trade reports the term safety points is used to cover all types of catch and trap points.

Keith knows far more than me about prototype practice, and he is of course quite right about the difference between trap and catch points. I wonder since the single line is bi-directional, would there not be some sort of safety point at both ends of the loop? I think it is correct that it would be a trap point (with two blades in such a situation, but sometimes it could be a full turnout with a short length of track perhaps leading to a buffer stop or sand drag. If the track is made a bit longer it is a useful place to park a brake van when shunting. You could have a full tunout at one end and a trap point at the other just to give interest.

grovenor-2685 wrote:another possibility used in such cases would be a scotch block that could be locked over the rail


In Bob's first book on operation, Railway Operation for the Modeller, there is a picture on page 26 of two scotch blocks used to prevent wagons running away on sidings leading to a loop rather than a main line. The caption says that Bob has never found any explanation as to why a scotch block was used in preference to a catch point, but space may be one consideration.

Making a working scotch block would be a nice thing to do, and not very difficult. :D

Terry Bendall

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steve howe
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Re: Old-fashioned Bullhead Turnouts

Postby steve howe » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:05 pm

A turnout leading to a short length of track slightly curved away from the running line could look good, and is a very 'Great Western' feature. As Terry says, a good place to park the resident Toad or a couple of PW wagons.

Might investigate that one!

Cheers

Steve


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