Sticking things down

[Serjt-Dave]

Hit a bit of a snag! Just completed two turnouts {all be the stretcher bars} removed them off the template so I'd thought I'll make up some straight track. If it's not good practice to leave the templates under your track once it's made, how do you remove the template if your building the track in-situ? I can understand if your building a small section but if your making a section that's quite long and/or curved I can see it all coming apart when if you try removing the template.

I'm making the track in 60' panels and each section is made up of either two or three panels. I was going to keep the rails as one piece but cut the top of the rail to simulate mark the break in the panel. Is there another way of laying the sleepers out without using a template or does one leave the template down and just don't tell anyone it's still there after ballasting? LOL.

Dave

[grovenor-2685]

Personally I do plain track just the same way as turnouts, build it on the template on the bench, remove the template and lay the track without the template (more detail on my website, see sig below). A bit of looking around on here will find a few options on keeping the alignment with various marking techniques, use of pins etc. There are also advocates of leaving the template in place under the ballast, I never have but I don't really see why it should be a problem.
Regards
Keith

[Serjt-Dave]

Thanks Keith. What I think I'll end up doing is turnouts and straight sections of track I'll build off the layout and remove the template before laying the track but curves section etc I think I'll make in situ. Thanks for your link to your website. I spent a happy morning going through all your blogs. I have a lot of catching up to do. One day may be, one day. LOL.

All Best

Dave

[chris58]

Hi all
rather than start a new thread may i ask how you intend to stick plastic chairs to plywood sleepers.I suspect i might be being increadibly naive.
Regards
Chris

[Tim V]

Daywat Poly,
Butatone,

both work.

[John Bateson]

Daywat Poly,
Butatone,

both work.
Tim V

and plenty of gauges with a good book to act as a weight - this evens out any discrepancies in either the sleepers or the underside of the chair.
To adjust later just flood the joints - with an open window for the fumes of course!
John

[chris58]

Thanks
will give it a go
Regards Chris

[essdee]

Ten years on..........................!!

Having successfully used Evo-Stik Timebond a few months ago to fix 1.5mm cork sheet to plywood trackbase, I ran into a problem yesterday when attempting to lay some trackwork. Having spread Timebond over an area to receive two turnouts in series, I realised it had 'dried' into the cork in several areas and would certainly not give an even grip over the area. I left it to 'harden off' overnight, and will address the result later today - the actual surface is not too uneven, though I realise care will be needed in trying to 'sand' the resultant rubbery surface. This is colliery sidings, so a slightly inferior laying result might be acceptable, P4 standards aside, but I would not want to have this happen when laying the mainline trackage.

I do find the Timebond a tad heavy on the 'thix' side of its composition, and not too friendly to apply evenly; but in view of the posts above (which had influenced my decision to choose the Timebond), I am very wary of switching to PVA, though the craft/hobby version might be an alternative? A diluted version of the latter is anyway envisaged for eventual ballasting/colliery mucking.

Any similar experiences, recommendations, please?

Many thanks in anticipation,

Steve D.

[Jol Wilkinson]

I use Copydex for sticking down track to both cork and closed cell foam. It works with ply sleepers and also plastic track bases. I chose it as it is slightly flexible and also can be softened with white spirit if you need to lift /move track.

[Philip Hall]

Steve, experience over the past few years has led to some revised thoughts about this.

Gluing the cork underlay down: I now use Wakol Cork Adhesive, bought from SPD in Aylesbury who are very good cork suppliers. This was on the recommendation of Allan Goodwillie. The cork is glued down to the melamine surface of Contiboard and shows no sign of shifting. The glue is quite thin and is brushed on to both surfaces with an old toothbrush, left to dry for 30-60 minutes and then fixed and rolled down with a wallpaper edging roller. If you think that Timebond is a bit thick, this is the stuff to use. It can also be used to stick the cork down without waiting for it to go into 'instant bond' mode with weights put on top whilst it goes off. It's just like Copydex but thinner and takes longer to go off.

So far all the track (FastTrack and ply and rivet pointwork) has been lightly pinned down with veneer pins into countersunk holes in the sleepers. A 1mm hole is drilled right through into the Contiboard and cork base, and the end of the pin cut off with side cutters to a length of about 5/8", the burr so created allows the pin to be pushed into the hole and grips the Contiboard without hammering the track down tightly. This help with keeping the noise levels down on the main running lines. Removal and adjustment is easy too. The pins are hardly visible but can later be disguised if I feel so inclined.

I think the Wakol will also glue the track down and I am going to experiment with that in some sidings in due course. It might also be possible to ballast at the same time given that alignment in sidings is not quite so critical.

Current ideas for ballasting are cork (a bit coarse) or nut granules (some a bit too fine) from various suppliers, spread loose with diluted Wakol or Copydex dropped on it. The thoughts are that some of this, but not too much, will seep underneath the sleepers as well as holding the ballast down. I have also found an old bottle of thin latex-like adhesive from Anita Decor which might do the same thing, although because of its age I will experiment first.

All this of course is for a very permanent layout and slight lack of adhesion for the ballast is not a problem unless it all goes up the vacuum cleaner during the occasional clean up. But then I haven't cleaned the track since last summer (nickel silver rail) and it all still runs very nicely.

Philip

[essdee]

Many thanks, Jol and Phil,

That's some valuable advice on alternatives to Timebond; I will bear this in mind....

Having spoken to a local builder's merchant in town yesterday, it seems clear that my Timebond had 'gone off' in the tin (rather like clear honey that no longer is!). I now have a suspicion that the tin had been stored in over-warm warehouse conditions before I bought it, which was after last summer's heatwave. When I laid the cork sheet earlier this 'summer', it seemed OK if rather over-thick, but has now - with more air in the tin - clearly 'gorn orf'.

Hmmm .... any thoughts on thinning the remainder, and with what? Is it even possible?

Will try again with a smaller tin initially.

KInd regards,

Steve

[essdee]

I should have posted a pic of the Evo-Stik Timebond contents before, I guess!

This was taken this afternoon, showing the surface looking more or less as it was when I closed the tin after yesterday's attempt to apply to the cork. I can only find one internet image showing an opened fresh tin, with a smooth, waxy surface much like the coloration here - I have dis-regarded one image which appears to show a golden liquid being poured from a Timebond tin!!

Anyway, it is thick and just about spreadable, but to my mind rather too thick - and the advice I had at the builder's merchant yesterday was that the surface should have re-levelled after use?

Does it appear as you would expect, previous Timebond users?

Thanks all,

Steve

[John Bateson]

Double sided carpet tape - found it to be very effective and since it does not dry hard there may be some reduction in track noise.
White spirit to remove.
John