Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

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PeteScR

Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby PeteScR » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:35 pm

Having now got a plan finalised for my first P4 layout , and the plan printed out on a roll of paper, I was wondering what techniques people use to attach the plan to the baseboard.
I have tried in the past to use dilute PVA but found the paper tore or stretched when wet.
Any suggestions welcome.

Pete

Trevor Grout
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Trevor Grout » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:02 pm

you could use masking tape on the edges to fix it down or use map pins, all down to choice really, at least you would be able to cut bits out and work them off layout on the bench in needs be

down to you

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:59 pm

i have never fixed the plans to the baseboard, I build the track to the plans then glue the track to the baseboard.
Ref: http://www.norgrove.me.uk/shed-relay.html
But if you really want to stick the whole plan down you need something like artists spray adhesive, the rubbery stuff, not something wet.
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Keith
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RobM
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby RobM » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:10 am

For sticking down paper I've used 3M Photomount (3M Spraymount remains tacky and is not so permanent but allows for repositioning) and double sided adhesive sheets (come in A3 and A4 sizes).
The easiest way I find is to print out onto A3 card then glue down with neat PVA.......much cutting and aligning but have found this method best. There is the possibility of minimal cockling of the card but when the water content of the glue dries out the card returns to being perfectly flat.
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Alan Turner
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Alan Turner » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:34 am

As Keith says best to build off the baseboard but if you really want to then as Rob says print onto thin card (250 gm/sqm).

Then use a solvent based adhesive (but not too thickly applied or it will cockle). I use spray carpet glue - stronger than spray or photo mount. However once it's down it's down!

Alan

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Russ Elliott » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:42 am

Given the mechanical stresses involved, I think PVA is the possibly the only glue that will still be doing its job in 20 years' time.

The cosmetic disadvantage of laying track directly onto the baseboard is that it doesn't allow for a trackbed height.

If pursuing the 'track glued onto templot paper printout' route, the principle of Ricey's floating track is:

ricey-floating.png
ricey-floating.png (3.02 KiB) Viewed 8965 times

Ray Hammond used two or three layers of thin (1mm?) felt on Buntingham for the bed, and that worked very quietly.

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newport_rod
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby newport_rod » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:54 am

Pete
We experimented with all sorts of glues in the Newport MRS in trying to glue down Templot print-outs for our Little Mill Junction layout. PVA, whether dilute or neat, always caused the paper to expand excessively. Photomount-type spray glues we rejected as we wanted to lay the track on top of the plan and have it stay stuck for several years.
In the end we abandoned the idea of gluing the plots down and instead cut out small rectangles (about 2mm x 1mm) at about 100mm intervals along the rail and at the crossing noses and the marked the positions of the rails onto the board through the small apertures. So far we’ve laid out the 32’-long fiddle yard and around two dozen turnouts and it seems to be working OK.
Rod

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Martin Wynne » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:25 pm

For a large plan it is very difficult to handle and stick down long rolls of paper. It's often easier (and less expensive) to use individual pages printed in Templot and trimmed to the red lines. This is about 100 times easier if instead of printing on ordinary 80gsm office paper, you print on something a bit thicker. I recommend at least 160gsm paper for printing Templot template pages (available in packs of 250 A4 sheets from Staples and elsewhere -- the last time I was in there it was on a BOGOF :) offer, buy one get one free.)

160gsm paper is almost a thin card. It cuts very cleanly with a craft knife on the red lines, and the pages can be physically butted together like tiles in a way which you can't do with thinner paper.

Also this way you don't have to finalise the design of the whole layout and print it all in one go.

I think it is risky to leave the paper templates in place between the track and the trackbed, because you are then relying on the paper for strength, and in damp weather it is likely to lose integrity.

My preferred method is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/templot/message/7652

(There I referred to 3/4" veneer pins, but having measured my stock, they are actually 1" pins.)

regards,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...

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jim s-w
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby jim s-w » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:41 pm

Russ Elliott wrote:Given the mechanical stresses involved, I think PVA is the possibly the only glue that will still be doing its job in 20 years' time.
The cosmetic disadvantage of laying track directly onto the baseboard is that it doesn't allow for a trackbed height.
If pursuing the 'track glued onto templot paper printout' route, the principle of Ricey's floating track is:


Not all track has a trackbed and even if it does it doesnt have to be squishy.

I use photomount to stick the templates then use a wallpaper perforator to leave thousands of holes in the paper. The track is glued to the paper with superglue.

HTH

Jim

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:53 pm

Not all track has a trackbed
Better not let the P-Way hear you. To be more accurate, not all trackbed has visibly raised edges or "Ballast shoulders". So if you model a station area..........
But having once dug a lot of holes in it for rodding and crank stools I can assure you that the track in BNS does indeed sit on a track bed.
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Keith
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jim s-w
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby jim s-w » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:05 pm

In the context of a model railway and what russ was talking about. But you knew that didnt you Keith?

Jim

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Wizard of the Moor
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Wizard of the Moor » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:23 pm

I have used the following method:

- glue closed cell foam underlay to baseboard with Copydex
- print Templot plan on one long roll of thick paper
- glue plan to underlay with Spraymount
- drill holes for dropper, TOUs, etc.
- cut out sleepers from Templot plan to reveal foam underneath
- glue ply sleepers to foam with Copydex
- add rails, chairs to taste
- cut paper along the mid-line of the rails
- pull plan out from around track

Yep, it takes a bit longer, but I've had zero movement of the track in five years. No need to worry about the inevitable damage from transferring track from a building board to the layout, and it's much easier to get everything lined up and flowing.

If you are being clever and mixing 9' and 8'6" sleepers then it pays to get your Templot settings right :D
James Dickie

My workbench

PeteScR

Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby PeteScR » Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:39 pm

Thanks for all the responses. Very interesting to read all the various ways people go about this.
I fancy the technique Jim uses.
Jim, where did you get your wallpaper perforator. Only ones I can see are on-line shops and I would like a look at it first.

Cheers
Pete

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jim s-w
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby jim s-w » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:26 am

Hi Pete

I use this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0001IWE4G/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9551160189&ref=asc_df_B0001IWE4G

Its pretty aggressive and you need to sand the surface smooth afterwards but thats a good habit to get into anyway.

Hth

Jim

Trevor Grout
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Trevor Grout » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:06 pm

jim s-w wrote:Hi Pete

I use this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0001IWE4G/?tag=hydra0b-21&hvadid=9551160189&ref=asc_df_B0001IWE4G

Its pretty aggressive and you need to sand the surface smooth afterwards but thats a good habit to get into anyway.

Hth

Jim


Blimey, that looks a bit brutal, best keep Mrs G away, she might just get one to use on me.......

Bunchie3174

Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby Bunchie3174 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:08 pm

My templates are glued to the cork base with glue stick. It needs to be warm so the glue is softer and it doesn't cause any bubbling, ripping or distortion. It's robust when it all dries out. I then glue the sleepers in situ on top.

JFS
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Re: Tracklaying onto Templot print outs

Postby JFS » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:56 pm

Bunchie3174 wrote:My templates are glued to the cork base with glue stick. It needs to be warm so the glue is softer and it doesn't cause any bubbling, ripping or distortion. It's robust when it all dries out. I then glue the sleepers in situ on top.


Hmm, that sounds a bit too obvious - why did I not think of it...??

... off to do a sneaky trial...

Thanks,

Howard


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