Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Tue May 15, 2012 8:47 pm

The common crossing area has the same amount of timbers from the V to both exits, V being 1, the exit timber/s being 5.

I'm thinking I should just number from that last one backwards and add another sleeper if I feel like it. :P

On the template after the last sliding chair there are 2 timbers, so I'm guessin that on the wood base there will be only one, yet I'm not sure.
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Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Sun May 20, 2012 3:10 pm

I had over 20 pictures but I've managed after some thought narrowed that down to 11, if that's still too many then...well. Can't please everyone.


C&L Timber Tracks B6 Turnout.

Something before I start.
I mentioned this when I started the Exactoscale turnout but nobody answerd on it, if you have an idea please share. Basically when I brought the turnout kit at Warley last year they were selling CARR'S Butanone to glue the chairs to the plywood. I also brought Exactoscale's Butanone (made by Wizard Models). Now, the issue is, Exactoscale's Butanone is in my opinion good, it works very well, CARR'S on the other hand is 100% useless. I don't know weather I have a dodgy batch with a vital ingrediant missing or what but it does NOTHING, wouldn't glue a chair even to a chair, let alone wood. I mean this with no intended disrespect but I'm not lying when I say I might aswell use water. It still whiffs rather potent but it doesn't stick a thing, isn't even tacky after waiting a while. I've tried it on various plastic types and it doesn't even glue some common plastic card together, does anyone know what the problem is? I doubt I'll be 'using' it again! Unless it's me, use Exactoscale's, that works.

The building of the kit.
Aligning the 1st track was easily done by using some other track, the webs need to be ignored I was told. The problem I had previously regarding the lack of a sleeper I have solved rather simply. Funny thing is the solution is so simple. Just add another timber or sleeper, not sure which, I brought some sleeper and timber strip from the S4 stores a while ago; knew it'd come in use at some point. (some 'point', get it!? meh :? )
Image

A tip. If you have ever made Slater's 3 link couplings you will know that they come (or at least used to) in little plastic trays. Keep them, they are amazingly useful. Currently I have 3 of them.
Image

The first thing to do was to thread chairs onto the straight stock rail, this was the same afair as with exactoscale. File the track smooth and thread them on, simple. However, I had to miss out some in certain areas becasue the instructions. I wasn't sure which way the keys needed to face so I just followed what I did with the Exactoscale turnout, the S4 digest on keying practice didn't help too much regarding points and neither did the C&L drawing that came with the kit; no keys were drawn on so I had to guess. Brilliant.
Instructions siad to use a ruler or other straight edge to make sure the stock rail was fixed correctly. This is very important because if this is out it will nock the rest of the turnouts alighnment later, I used an Expo 4mm rule due to it's stiffness.
Image

After the straight stock rail was in place it was time to fit the common corssing and wing rail assembily. Like exactoscale you pay for the privelidge of it being done for you. I might have a go at making my own one day, but for the moment it's a relief we get the option of the hardest part being done for you.
Instructions said to slide a slide chair under the V but this was impossible becasue part of the soldering 'bits' that hold the assembily in place was in the way. This is why the slide chair is butchered on one side; at least it will have some extra support.
Image

Now that the common crossing and straight stock rail are in place it's time for the curved stock rail. It was gauged off the 'V' and the chairs on that side of the turnout glued from that area to the rest of the exit only, the middle section needs to be able to flex and bend so it can be gauged correctly from the other rails.
Image

Next is to fit the straight switch rail, notice that authough I've fitted the slide chairs to the straight stock rail, the curved stock rail has none yet, this is for the same reason as above; to be able to gauge things correctly later.
Image

The following picture shows me fitting the check rails with the gauge, this was easy enough but unlike Exactoscale giving you the correct chairs for the job, C&L in this kit only give you standard handed chairs to represent ALL but the slide chairs so for the others you have to trim them to size with a knife so that they will fit. To be honest at most viewing distancies it looks good, certainly a massive jump up from RTR 00 so I'm not too fussed, at least the moment.
Now we have a monumental balls up due to ignorance and possibly a little too much haste. One of those things you only notice after the act, but by then it's very much too late.
After fitting both switch rails and gluing them I noticed something.
Image
See the problem? I should have trimmed the ends of the wing rails and then cut the switch rails to length, NOT the other way around! Too late. Not only is this prototypical nonsense but it looks awful too...aaaand I cannot fit the fishplates very good either. :? Never mind, things roll through happy so I'll take it as an experience point and move on.

Another area that could have been executed much better is fitting these fish plates. I was looking through my boxes for a slitting disk but they were all broken. Rather than going into town I didn the lazy and grabbed a small file, asthetic results are....well, it looks like someone has been at it with a file! Pluss once slipped without me noticing so it's in the wrong place. Not exactly a convincing rail joint. Again though it's only a visual mistake and doesn't affect the operation so I'll take that as experience too.
Image

Adding the stretcher bars was a doddle, cut the timber webs out of the way (I had to superglue the outside of the chairs to the rail due to no support-easily done though) thread the bars under, a little CARR'S Green Flux (The flux works!) and some 145 solder and Bob's your Auntie. The blades were filed at the tips a little to ease running transition and the solder filed away a little, my trucks seem happy rolling either way.
Image

I'm happy. Other than getting some more fishplates for the join you may have noticed is missing them, and other than cutting the excess rails at te exit end, and other than removing the extra plywood and webs, and other than making those electrical joins it is finished.

Verdict? Apart from the chair and keying trouble the kit is great. I found it just as easy asd Exactoscale's and becasue of that little bit of experience and the fact that a B6 is smaller than a C10 (and lack of chair types) it only took a bunch of hours for a couple of days, you could complete one in a few evenings easily. Two of my trucks coupled up run through each way with no problems.

Aymha Happy Campeur.

Done. :D

Image

Image

Comments and suggestions welcome. :)

Please forgive the myriad of typo's, I type quick but will go through it later and polish things.
Last edited by Knuckles on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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craig_whilding
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby craig_whilding » Sun May 20, 2012 5:19 pm

The rails butting up to the wing rails are the closure rails btw though I assume in the C+L kit they are part of the same bits of rail as the switch rails for strength and ease. I believe they were the rails cut on the prototype too for certain situations of mild curve.

Looks like a good build anyway, my only tip would be to use an electrical solder on the tie bar fixing for strength. 145 is more of a detail solder for attaching bits to kits and is weaker than the high melting point electrical stuff. Unless someone else knows better anyway!

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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Sun May 20, 2012 5:27 pm

I know about the closure rails, but yeah the closure and switch rails is essentially one, you just have to add rail joints cosmetically afterwards.

Ill do all future stretcher bars with higher solder. Unless this fails I think it'll be ok. Will leave it until (if) it breaks.

I think next thing may be a crossing, two turnouts joined with a 6ft way gap. Any ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this without Templot? I'm still learning Templot but progress is really slow/confusing - normal that apparently. :shock:
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craig_whilding
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby craig_whilding » Sun May 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Knuckles wrote:I know about the closure rails, but yeah the closure and switch rails is essentially one, you just have to add rail joints cosmetically afterwards.

Ill do all future stretcher bars with higher solder. Unless this fails I think it'll be ok. Will leave it until (if) it breaks.

I think next thing may be a crossing, two turnouts joined with a 6ft way gap. Any ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this without Templot? I'm still learning Templot but progress is really slow/confusing - normal that apparently. :shock:

Photocopy one of the existing turnout templates and stick them together. The Exactoscale ones have notes on them about spacing. Its not high tech but it should work.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:16 pm

Photocopy one of the existing turnout templates and stick them together. The Exactoscale ones have notes on them about spacing. Its not high tech but it should work
. Always has for me. But it won't get the timbering quite right and you will have to make some adjustments to get the long timbers correct around the centre of the crossover.
Incidentally a crossover is one of the simplest things to do in Templot, just get your simple turnout to the required gauge and size, B7 etc. then one click on "tools/make simple crossover" does the job. But as above this does not sort out the timbering which is left to you.
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Keith

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun May 20, 2012 7:48 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Incidentally a crossover is one of the simplest things to do in Templot, just get your simple turnout to the required gauge and size, B7 etc. then one click on "tools/make simple crossover" does the job. But as above this does not sort out the timbering which is left to you.

True, but you can sort out the timbering on the screen, with as much trial and error as you wish. Then print the template. Not quite the same thing as doing it on the fixed templates and getting in a sticky mess attaching and removing timbers. And Templot leaves a gap to give you a big hint where the timbers need lengthening across:

Image

And of course in Templot it makes no difference if the crossover is curved, which you can't easily do with ready printed templates, or pre-cut timber bases. Any supposed advantage of the fixed bases over sticking timbers on a template is a mystery to me -- apart from the expense, you are losing one of the biggest advantages of handbuilt track, the ability to make pointwork flow through the curves. Now that Templot is free to use, that's something which is available to everyone.

regards,

Martin.
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun May 20, 2012 8:31 pm

True Martin, but Knuckles did say
Any ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this without Templot? I'm still learning Templot but progress is really slow/confusing - normal that apparently
and I would put shoving timbers down as one of the advanced functions, and if just creating a template to build on I would just print it as is and sort out the timbering with a pencil on the plan. Much quicker for me.
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun May 20, 2012 8:51 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:True Martin, but Knuckles did say
Any ideas or suggestions on the best way to do this without Templot? I'm still learning Templot but progress is really slow/confusing - normal that apparently

and I would put shoving timbers down as one of the advanced functions, and if just creating a template to build on I would just print it as is and sort out the timbering with a pencil on the plan. Much quicker for me.

Yes Keith, but you wrote about Templot "as above this does not sort out the timbering which is left to you." But it's not "as above" is it? -- Templot provides the tools to enable the user to sort out the timbering before printing the template, rather than a lot of scribbling on it afterwards. Deciding not to use those tools is a separate issue, and of course entirely valid if you prefer that way of working.

regards,

Martin.
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun May 20, 2012 9:13 pm

Martin, I'm not getting into any long discussion an such minor semantics, as above was correct as written, you yourself agreed in your post and its visible in your screenshot (which I had checked myself before sending in my post). Templot provides the tools, yes but it doesn't do it for you.
Keith

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun May 20, 2012 10:08 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:Templot provides the tools, yes but it doesn't do it for you.

I don't want to get into semantics either, but your original statement implied to a casual reader that Templot does not provide such tools.

The reason it's important to me to clarify such things is that a lot of email support requests arise from beginners being given wrong or misleading information about Templot. I'm simply not able to respond to such emails any more.

regards,

Martin.
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon May 21, 2012 10:12 am

Hi Knuckles,

It's looking good, but I think you may have got the rails offset to one side on the timber base:

p4_timber_base.png
p4_timber_base.png (108.03 KiB) Viewed 9119 times

At A I think I can see the small "v" web between the timbers which is surely intended to be aligned under the nose of the vee? And the amount of timber projecting beyond the rail at B is clearly less than at C.

I think you may have used the web links between the timbers to align the first stock rail? As shown in your original post, these are apparently not in line with the rails, presumably to make it easier to chisel them out after assembly.

It would probably be a good idea with these timber bases to stick them down on a template anyway, to see the rail alignments more clearly.

regards,

Martin.
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon May 21, 2012 11:33 am

Hi Knuckles,

You account didn't make any reference to "setting" the curved stock rail at the switch. I don't know how fully this is covered in the C&L notes, but it's an important detail for beginners to get right, which isn't immediately obvious. Without a proper set in the stock rail, it is almost impossible to align the switch blades to gauge.

Here are some notes of mine about setting the curved stock rail for REA undercut switches which I've posted before on other forums, but not I think here.

The best picture I can find is this one of Rod Cameron's. Here I have marked up Rod's picture:

Image

The common REA bullhead A, B, etc. switches are "semi-curved" designs. For an ordinary straight turnout, that means there is a straight portion over the length of the tapered planing (machining) on the switch blade, and only beyond that the switch rail is curved. Here's a diagram to explain it:

Image

Straight turnout:

To make a size B curved stock rail for a straight turnout in 4mm/ft scale, do this:

1. Make two marks on the rail with a fine felt-tip pen, 29.3mm apart.

2. At the first mark make the "set", a sharply-defined shallow bend. Sharply-defined means that it is very clearly in one particular place on the rail, a kink, not a curve. Shallow means it is a very slight angle (1:32). It's very easy to overdo the angle, but you can flatten it back by squeezing the rail in flat pliers. Here's a simple way of making the bend:
Image

3. Make sure the section of rail between there and the next mark is dead straight. Don't inadvertently curve it.

4. Beyond the second mark you can gently curve the rail between your fingers.

5. Lay the rail on the template. If it is a Templot template the two marks will be on the template. You can align the rail over the template and check that the set angle matches the template. Time spent at this stage checking and adjusting will be well repaid later. If you have stuck the timbers on the template, it is worth printing off another one to check the rail against more easily.

6. Fix the straight stock rail first, it is just plain rail.

7. Start fixing the curved stock rail at the switch front, gauging from the straight stock rail in the usual way. Don't go beyond the set yet.

8. Transfer your attention to the second mark, location X in the diagram above where the rails begin to diverge. Measure the "stock gauge", that's the distance between the two stock rails at this location, i.e. between X and Y in the diagram. It should be exactly one rail width greater than the track gauge. For 4mm scale that means:

00-SF stock gauge = 16.20 + 0.92 = 17.12mm

EM stock gauge = 18.20 + 0.92 = 19.12mm

P4 stock gauge = 18.83 + 0.92 = 19.75mm

If you don't have a suitable means of making this measurement, you can improvise by combining an oddment of rail with your track gauge tool.

9. If the stock gauge is correct, you can fix the stock rail at X. If it isn't, you may be able to adjust the set bend slightly in situ. If it is a long way out, you should remove the stock rail and correct the set bend angle. Don't try to correct the stock gauge by curving the rail, the section between the marks must be dead straight as shown.

10. If all is well, you can now fix the rail between the marks, checking with a straight-edge that it is dead straight. Then work forward over the curved section, aligning to the template. For an A switch, the 29.3mm dimension between the marks is shortened to 22.0mm (i.e. the set angle is 1:24). The stock-gauge remains the same as before. A bit of practice helps of course. Don't expect to get it perfect on your very first turnout. Image You will soon discover the importance of checking the rail against the template before starting to fix it down.

11. If you get it right you will find adding the switch blades later is dead easy. They will seat properly along the full length of the planing and almost gauge themselves. Image

More diagrams and notes about all this at: http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_realtrack.htm

which also shows the modified joggled arrangement used on the GWR, and for REA straightcut switches in facing locations.

Curved turnout:

For a curved turnout the procedure is essentially the same, and it's a good idea to prepare the stock rail first as if it was for a straight turnout. The difference is that the dead straight section should then be curved to match the outer radius for the turnout. In other words the orange-coloured sections on the diagram above are all either straight or all curved to the same radius. The smaller turnout radius (the inner radius) begins only where the rails diverge. The stock gauge and lengths remain unchanged. To get this right, it's a good idea to print a rails-only copy of the template on tracing paper, and lay it on top of the rails during construction to check the alignments.

Two more pictures showing the "set" bend on an LNER switch, these kindly supplied by Mick Nicholson:

Image

Image

regards,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Mon May 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Blimey, that's a lot to take in, but I will read it after this post. Thanks. :)

The webs that need to be cut out arn't set in the correct places, they seem to be set for 00 and I checked the components in the kit with those online and it is all correct, on the previous page ( I think ) I questioned that and somebody either here or on RMweb said you need to just ignore the webs, so I set the straight stock rail using another peice of made track and aligned the timbers to get it right.

You account didn't make any reference to "setting" the curved stock rail at the switch. I don't know how fully this is covered in the C&L notes, but it's an important detail for beginners to get right
Instructions are pretty bland to be honest, "fit this bit, then move that and fit that bit, then ...etc" I got by though. Illustrations helped.
The switch area I tried to gauge slightly wider using Exactoscale's +1 roller. Now I don't know how well this turnout will operate once built into a layout or with a locomotive but those trucks I made coupled together seem happy, also I just pushed by hand that Converted Heljan Hymek and that seemd to smoothly go through, couldn't really feel any problems. I just checked with the normal gauge and it's very tight, you almost have to jam it in, but it still goes in, just.... ?

Templot is something I need to get my head around, I wasn't doing too bad until I wanted a double slip and then perpetually it gave me the midle finger. I tried 'make ladder crossing' and it sort of put it in the wrong place every time, even when I changed the red key things. :?

Thing is, I have almost mastered a program caled Anyrail, very easy to use and I have a bunch of plans there, however it's pretty much every gauge but P4. I've planned things using 4' curves and the longest (10 inch points, little short) but I need to do Templot versions for planning. If I can do those then I'll know for a fact what will fit in my given space accurately, then one day probably a good while from now I might be able to print them.

EDIT: I've just thinned the blades at the start a tad due to the tight gauge. Is a bit better but I dardn't touch it anymore. I'll hopefully put them in a layout one day, if there's any problems at that time then I'll think about lifting some chairs and repositioning things, but until then I fear I might knacker it. It seems to work, that's the main thing.

EDIT 2: If I find problems in the future would it be best to lift a few chairs on the curved stock rail and relay or would it be better to gently mini disk a little joggle in?
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David Thorpe
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby David Thorpe » Mon May 28, 2012 7:22 am

Knuckles wrote:Templot is something I need to get my head around, I wasn't doing too bad until I wanted a double slip and then perpetually it gave me the midle finger.


I've been wondering why you felt you needed Templot. I've made quite a few turnouts, tandem turnouts and slips using the Scalefour Society paper templates. The results have been very satisfactory, so I've been wondering why you haven't been doing the same. I think I may have found the answer.

I believe I got these templates when I joined the society for the first time. That was a long time ago - I allowed that initial membership to lapse and am now on my second spell. Of course, back in those days when you joined you received a great wodge of paper material - there was no such thing as PCs, the internet or downloading. I don't know if new members now receive such templates and have begun to suspect that they don't - perhaps someone can clarify? I think you still get some paper templates when you join the EM Gauge Society but they, of course, are in EM.

The reason I suspect that our members don't now get them is that they're not available through the stores. There's a good range of standard turnout templates at £1 each, but all the crossings, slips and tandems are marked "nya", which seems a bit odd as they certainly were available at one time. Nor can I find any available for downloading except for a limited few in the Digest.

Trackwork is perhaps one of the things that people considering going P4 find most daunting. It therefore seems to me to be a good idea to ensure that, as in the "old days", new members receive a full set of the Society's track templates and, if possible, that the full range could be restored to the stores. People like Knuckles could then get on and build their slips without having to worry about Templot.

Of course, i may be wrong about all this and new members may indeed still be getting a full set of templates. If that is indeed the case, then you don't need Templot to build a slip, Knuckles - the Society templates are fine!

DT

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Mon May 28, 2012 8:17 am

DaveyTee wrote:
Knuckles wrote:Of course, i may be wrong about all this and new members may indeed still be getting a full set of templates. If that is indeed the case, then you don't need Templot to build a slip, Knuckles - the Society templates are fine!

Hi Davey,

A full range of straight P4 templates is also available from C&L, including slips -- see http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?o ... 4templates

The operative word there being "straight". I think Knuckles's interest is in the track planning functions in Templot. Creating a curved crossover from straight printed templates is tricky, whereas in Templot it is just a couple of clicks. Image

Also Templot is now free. So an infinite range of template sizes and radii costs nothing to create, and only a few pence in materials to print. If it doesn't fit you can simply throw it away and try one a bit longer or shorter, or curved a bit more or less. And for those working in flat-bottom rail, you can now have the rail foot showing on the templates (displaced if necessary for canted rail). It's also very helpful to be able to print an additional template on tracing paper, which can be laid on the rail tops to check alignments.

regards,

Martin.
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grovenor-2685
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon May 28, 2012 1:09 pm

The reason I suspect that our members don't now get them is that they're not available through the stores. There's a good range of standard turnout templates at £1 each, but all the crossings, slips and tandems are marked "nya", which seems a bit odd as they certainly were available at one time. Nor can I find any available for downloading except for a limited few in the Digest.

I think this is a case of "the best being the enemy of the good", the templates previously were in a basic format although perfectly suitable for actually building on. The advent of better CAD packages etc led to new drawings being prepared showing chair detail etc. These were done as a joint effort with the P4 track company and the remainder of the planned range is taking a long time to produce, hence all the TBA stuff.

At the same time, Martin with Templot, especially now he has made it free, has pretty much blown the market away, particularly for the basic templates already in the range so I suspect they are a very slow moving item. Perhaps it would be better to give away the stock to new members and when they are gone drop them off the list altogether.
Regards
Keith

Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Tue May 29, 2012 6:34 pm

I haven't popped back in this thread for a while because I thought it was done with until I posted something; I was wrong!

Authough I did recieve a lot of things in paper format upon joining I didn't recieve turnout templates.

Martin is correct regarding the primary use I need Templot for, and that is indeed the planning.

I've been using a fully licenced version of Anyrail for a couple of years and love the program, easy to use, versatile and almost limetless, UNLEASS of cource you decide you want to 'go P4' and build your own track. Not only can you not have customised turnouts but there is no 18.83 gauge option yet. Now I'm not dissing it as a program, I love it and reccomend it to anyone in all the popular scales if you plan on buying proprietry track. I have a massive set of layout plans that I have invented to fit within my given space for the new layout/s, problem is, authough I've used 4foot curves as a minimum the turnouts are large 00 ones and the biggest straight one is about 10 inches. To my supprise that is 'do-able' in P4 in certain areas but I still wouldn't trust the 00 geometry as a basis for P4, neither do I (with my very limited skill) see how I can possibly link several turnouts and crossings together by making several 'set track' turnouts and hoping they link into a unified geometry!
Hope all that above makes sence because I had trouble trying to describe what I mean. So I think once learnt better Templot is the best answer.

If I just had small end to end ideas in mind then using set track type templates would be fine, but I have oval type joins in mind for continous run and most of the various plans require things to link well, not every layout is complex but I still don' think I stand a chance without Templot for what I have in mind. I can show you these plans if interested.

Drawing my own curves and playing with mathematical equasions is pretty much out of the question, I'm thick as a sleeper in that area, neither does the prospect excite me. Every time I see algibra in the digest sheets I flick past; I'm not clever enough and it's a language not learnt so it communicates nothing to me. I've always been a 'Cut and file back' modeller, not a perfect measurer type. Suck it and see, then fiddle a bit.
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm

Hi Knuckles,

I also like David Hoogvorst's AnyRail program. I think he has produced a smashing piece of software which is great to use.

Did you know that you can easily display your AnyRail track plans in Templot? You can't convert them directly to P4, but you can create P4 templates over the top of them, using them as a guide.

You can also display them on Templot's sketchboard if you wish. Here's a bit of nonsense showing that -- despite first impressions to the contrary, this is actually a Templot screenshot:

Image

regards,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

allanferguson
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby allanferguson » Tue May 29, 2012 10:39 pm

If you want to get into Templot mainly for layout planning (as distinct from creating very detailed and precise templates), can I, with suitable modesty, suggest http://85a.co.uk/getting_started_with_t ... _ferguson/
It'll get you started creating a track plan, and may encourage you to move forward by trying things out. It's my way of working, which isn't everybody's. It is based on version 091c., but the principles are unchanged.

I do feel that Templot is too big and complicated to learn -- you have to pick it up by trying things out.

Allan F

Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Wed May 30, 2012 5:01 pm

Hi Allan, I went through your tutorial with Templot running a few weeks back several times and it helped no end. I can do almost everything in that tutorial off my head but sometimes I still can't seem to do what I thought I knew. Two main problems I'm having is getting the red peg to go on the 'other' end of a turnout. If I click the swap button thing it usually only switches between 2 of trhe 3 ends of a turnout, and if I want it to go to the end it doesn't want to then I'm usually stuffed there. The other problem I'm perpetually getting is creating slips and such like, the function, "make ladder crossing" always seems to do a type of crossing in the wrong place. :(

Mainly I need to learn Templot for track planning but if I can eventually solidify it then I'll need to print one day.

On a minor note I don't understnad all the different types of turnouts. to my ignorant self a turnout is a turnout, the only real difference I notice and appreciate is some have different angles and curves. That said, I'd still rather do things correctly but haven't the prototype knowledge!
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Martin Wynne » Wed May 30, 2012 5:34 pm

Knuckles wrote:Two main problems I'm having is getting the red peg to go on the 'other' end of a turnout.


Hi Knuckles,

To move the red fixing peg to different positions, hold down the CTRL key and then press all the number keys from 1 to 0 along the keyboard row. There are also several other peg positions, and you can find them all at the geometry > peg positions > menu item. There is a table listing them all at:

http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_geome ... _positions

However, as a beginner you don't really need to use the fixing peg directly. If you watch this video you will see that it's hardly used:

http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/f ... arter.html


You can also simply snap the templates together (as in AnyRail) if you use the F7 mouse action, like this:

Image

and again, there is no need to use the fixing peg.

The fixing peg is provided for more advanced users, building complex formations from partial templates. You can forget about it until you are ready to do that.

regards,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

DougN
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby DougN » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Thanks Martin that has answered one of my problems in moving the templates around. I know it was there but at last look I couldn't find the move button!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

Knuckles
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby Knuckles » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:26 pm

This may seem a silly question but how much experimenting do you need before your ready to officially be a P4 modeller? so far I've made two turnouts, a handfull of wagons- most kit built with Bill Bedford sprung W-irons and one Heljan Hymek conversion. That is currently where I am. I'd like advice as to next 'test', as I am unsure what would be good. Was thinking maybe do a turnout with 'loose timbers from a paper template-possibly with a slight curve added. Maybe a crossover would be a better test. Any ideas would be great. :-)
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Knuckles's Turnout Construction Log

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:13 am

I would say that you have done enough, if you want to build a layout, draw up a plan and get on with it, then you learn as you go.
Regards
Keith


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