Crossing v filing jigs.

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
RobbieThomson

Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby RobbieThomson » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:11 pm

Where can i buy filing jig to make my own pointwork from. Any suppliers and how much?

John Fitton

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby John Fitton » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:00 am

I have a couple of jigs from Fastracks, based in Ontario, Canada. Check their site for details.

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/

I have made up 20 no.7 flatbottom turnouts, jigs still in good shape. Suggest getting "stock aid" if you are making FB turnouts, but not if making BH.

User avatar
Flymo748
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:00 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:41 am

RobbieThomson wrote:Where can i buy filing jig to make my own pointwork from. Any suppliers and how much?

Donning official Committee member hat...

The Committee has been aware that since the loss of the previous supplier of filing jigs, supplies have been scarce and the number circulating via the second-hand market has been diminishing. Therefore a few months ago we undertook to investigate the production of a run of jigs.

Thanks to much hard work by Terry Bendall, the last Committee meeting saw the perusal of some pre-production examples. There are two jigs, one to produce the angled ends for the rails that form the crossing vee, and to hold these whilst they are being soldered and one to produce switch blades. The jig for the vee is designed to cope with 1 in 5 - 1 in 8 vees and the switch blade one will produce A, B, C and D switches.

These were passed around and generally agreed to be very acceptable. The final stage in the production process will be to arrange for case-hardening so that they can be used with (relative) impunity. Final costs will also have to be decided - I can't give you an impression of this yet, although the suggestions so far have been very reasonable - particularly given the precision that the engineering firm doing the manufacturing has produced.

So I'm afraid that I can't answer your question with the availability "here and now". However you (and all other members) may be reassured that there is something on the way as another product from the Scalefour Society to help finescale modelling.

Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

User avatar
David Thorpe
Posts: 807
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:13 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:23 am

If you happen to be a member of the EM Gauge Society, you can get Portsdown crossing V jigs from them. They're not cheap, though. Or of course you could make your own - not difficult, and much cheaper!

DT

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Posts: 3108
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:34 am

Refer http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html. I have built over 100 that way from 1:2 to 1:20, an expensive jig is not needed. Give it a try while you are waiting, by the time the jig is available you may not want it ;)
Regards
Keith

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:19 am

Flymo748 wrote:So I'm afraid that I can't answer your question with the availability "here and now". However you (and all other members) may be reassured that there is something on the way as another product from the Scalefour Society to help finescale modelling.


It is intended that a supply of filing jigs will be available at Scalefour North and will be available from the stores after that. The company manking the jigs has been asked to deliver them by March 31st.

Terry Bendall

User avatar
Re6/6
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Re6/6 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:33 am

Here's an alternative simple method used by Brian Harrap for his P87 turnouts. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... ge__st__25 Although I have a set of the old 'Portsdown' jigs I've tried Brian's method and it's so very simple and works well.

An example on Quai 87.

Rails%20laid%20in%20grooves%20with%20sacrificial%20sleepers%20or%20gauging%20bars%20on%20top%20[2] -a.jpg
Rails%20laid%20in%20grooves%20with%20sacrificial%20sleepers%20or%20gauging%20bars%20on%20top%20[2] -a.jpg (96.49 KiB) Viewed 10650 times
John

User avatar
Brian Harrap
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Brian Harrap » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:49 pm

Did you know that pencils taped either side of a Lego brick will draw parallel lines 18.83mm apart? Brian.

johnp
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:23 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby johnp » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:48 pm

Brian Harrap wrote: Lego brick will draw parallel lines 18.83mm apart?



What size of brick, Brian - one with six spots?

I haven't got any to hand at the moment.

Regards,

John
Regards,

John

Trevor Grout
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:34 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Trevor Grout » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:55 pm

Brian Harrap wrote:Did you know that pencils taped either side of a Lego brick will draw parallel lines 18.83mm apart? Brian.



What colour lego brick Brian :-0

Seriously though, would that not depend on the pencil diameter, maker etc

What ones do you use?

regards

DougN
Posts: 873
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:57 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby DougN » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:25 am

Well if the Lego does that I have rather a large collection....though I will have to fight the 8 year old to get some of them back :shock: With a decent collection I wonder what I could come up with!
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

User avatar
Brian Harrap
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Brian Harrap » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:58 pm

I've given it some thought but I don't think the colour of the brick is too important. I am using pencils I got from the Tal-y-Llyn soc so I guess they would really be best suited for ng, however I shall still use them for roughing out my P4 plan, Brian.

tank engine
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:02 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby tank engine » Fri May 11, 2012 7:25 pm

:) Just thought I would mention the new V-JIG, Its excellent and I must say the Scalefour trade chaps are on the ball.
Arrived in the post today.
I also tried the jig after making up a 1-8 Vee, with sliding a length of bullhead into the 1-8 angle and bending it for the wing rail angle (If thats the term) first class job.

Thank you and also a big thanks to Danny for the fast post on my scalefour pack of new member goodies.

regards,

Derek

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun May 13, 2012 7:17 am

tank engine wrote:Just thought I would mention the new V-JIG, Its excellent


Thanks Derek. The production of the jigs took a long time - for reasons that are not necessary to go into, but it is good to know that they are proving useful.

Terry Bendall

tank engine
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:02 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby tank engine » Tue May 29, 2012 2:09 pm

:) Thanks for your reply Terry, Just thought I would mention, My new switch jig arrived. Another excellent product :) with order to delivery only taking a couple of days.
Many thanks to the society and its members for a great service.

regards,

Derek.

User avatar
Bigfish
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Bigfish » Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:29 pm

I bought a crossing vee filing jig, and a blade filing jig, at last year's S4 North. Being deeply cautious about undue haste, I've just reached the point of using them. I expect I can figure it out (eg referring to S4 Digest 236.1) but I just wondered if anyone could point me to any specific instructional material or photos of them being used?

Many thanks

Alan

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:07 am

Bigfish wrote:I bought a crossing vee filing jig, and a blade filing jig, at last year's S4 North. Being deeply cautious about undue haste, I've just reached the point of using them. I expect I can figure it out (eg referring to S4 Digest 236.1) but I just wondered if anyone could point me to any specific instructional material or photos of them being used?

Hi Alan,

Lots of pics and instructions on the web, see for example this topic:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... itch-jigs/

From which my post:
_____________________

This is a cross-section of bullhead rail. Contrary to what might seem likely, the top head section is deeper than the foot section, to allow for rail wear on the prototype. When working with model rail it is important to be always aware of which edge is the head, because the rail won't fit in the chairs if it's upside-down.

To help with the following diagrams I have coloured the rail section like this, but of course in reality it is the same colour all through:

Image

Begin by cutting a suitable length of rail and clamping it in the jig, normal way up, like this,

Image

and file it flush to the face of the jig:

Image

Remove the rail from the jig and you will observe that the filed face looks like this. Note that it is very fragile at the tip because there is no solid metal below the tip, and it is unsuitable for use as it stands:

Image

So the next stage is to bend it like this, so that the filed face aligns with the original rail,

Image

like this:

Image

Now turn the rail over, so that the foot is on top,

Image

and replace it in the jig. Align the end carefully, like this,

Image

and file it flush again:

Image

When removed you now have an angled end with solid metal at the tip, ready for use:

Image

The filed face looks like this:

Image

Now start again and repeat for the second rail, but in this case insert it in the jig upside down initially.

After which you will have a handed pair of point and splice rails from which to assemble your crossing vee.

regards,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

User avatar
Martin Wynne
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:13 pm

I have posted these notes before on several forums, but they might be helpful again here. :)

You don't need expensive jigs to make a crossing vee. You can use a paper template printed from Templot, and do most of the work after assembly of the rails. This method results in solid metal at the tip and cleans up any slight alignment error and any stray solder.

In the diagram below I have greatly exaggerated the crossing angle for clarity. The rails are shown in cross-section along the rail -- yellow shows the rail head and foot, orange shows the web of the rail. This is for bullhead rail as shown:

Image

A is a prepared piece of rail with the end bent to the crossing angle, or slightly less. Allow a little extra on the overall length.

File it (or sand it on a sanding disc) down to the web, as at B. This makes the splice rail.

C is the same as A, but bent the other way to make the opposite hand. This makes the point rail. File a recess down to the web to receive the splice rail B, as shown.

D is a scrap length of rail, metal strip, copper laminate, etched kit fret, or similar.

Glue the paper template down to a small block of scrap wood.

Assemble B, C and D on the template as shown. They can be held down with drawing pins, screws and penny washers, wooden clothes pegs, or similar.

Solder B and C together at the tip, and lightly solder D in place across the rail tops as a temporary stiffener while filing/sanding. It can be left in place until you are actually building the track, and then the surplus vee rail ends are trimmed back as required.

If you will be using a sanding disc, use high-temperature solder because the rail gets hot while sanding. If necessary stop and dip it in a jar of cold water. Using high-temp solder also reduces the risk of it coming apart later if you are using soldered copper-clad track construction.

V is the result after filing as shown, or making two cuts on the sander. The bulk of the metal can be quickly removed with a coarse file or metal shears before finishing on the sander or with a fine file.

If sanding, note that the solder dust is toxic -- take precautions to contain it.

Note how this method results in solid metal at the tip with no undercut.

The final tasks are to blunt off the nose as shown, to a scale width of 3/4" (bullhead) or 5/8" (flat-bottom), and to re-instate the rail-head corner radius on the filed areas. A few strokes with a fine file and a final polish with abrasive paper will do that.

It's also a good idea to take a few thou off the top of the vee nose so that it dips down slightly below the level of the wing rails. This allows for the coning angle on the wheels as they run off the wing rail onto the nose, producing smoother running. You can see these features in the prototype here:

Image
© Mick Nicholson with thanks

Showing the blunt nose of the crossing vee supported on a timber, with the actual gauge intersection located between the timbers. The top of the vee nose is taken down slightly below the level of the wing rails, and rounded off.

The end result is an accurately aligned vee matching the template and comprised of solid rail at the nose.

regards,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

User avatar
Bigfish
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:34 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Bigfish » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:30 am

Martin, thank you so much for that most helpful information, and the link - exactly what I needed. I have no idea how you find the time to read everyone's posts and provide such helpful and full replies, and keep developing the world's greatest trackwork software!

Regards

Alan

User avatar
Andy W
Posts: 819
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 8:11 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Andy W » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:10 pm

Yes, very informative Martin. Thank you.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.

User avatar
steve howe
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:16 pm

Vee + wing rail assembly

Postby steve howe » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:32 pm

Having just finished a tandem turnout using 'traditional' methods of ply, rivet and solder, I am wondering if there is a general consensus of opinion as to whether it is better to assemble the vee and associated wing rails separately on the bench on strips of brass/nickel, rather than set the vee in place first and then add the wing rails to it? I made an attempt at prefabricating crossings assemblies separately in the past, but found it a bit of a fiddle lining it all up without having the vee firmly fixed beforehand.

Any tips on prefabricating?

Steve

User avatar
grovenor-2685
Posts: 3108
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:02 pm

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:51 pm

Using ply and rivet I have always found it straightforward to fit the wing rails in situ and hence can see little or no benefit in pre-assembly.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html
However if using functional plastic chairs then I would think it better to pre-assemble the complete crossing to give a similar result to those supplied in Exactoscale kits. There have been articles covering a suitable jig for doing the assembly, might have been in Scalefour news, try a serach of the index.
Keith

Terry Bendall
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:46 am

Re: Crossing v filing jigs.

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:13 am

I have not built a ply and rivet turnout for a long time, but when I did, I always assembled everything in situ as Keith says. However since the vee and wing rails are the most important part of the turnout I can see that making this as a unit, as is done with the Exactoscale and C&L versions , could well be an advantage.

One of the most useful aids to building this part is a Mk 1 eyeball - in other words sighting down the wing rail and vee to see that everything is in the right place. This could be a bit easier if it is done off the template. As with anything else, ask for advice, form an opinion, try out the variations if you want to and use what works best for you.

Terry Bendall


Return to “Track and Turnouts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests