Wagon Turntables

[Chris Mitton]

Hi all

Does anyone have any drawings / information about wagon turntables, of the sort common on the old GER and GNR (and I daresay many other parts of the country too)? I'd like to include a couple on one of my sidings but I'm not sure of the dimensions or the construction: I seem to recall they were usually around 15 ft in diameter, of relatively light construction (and banned to locomotives), and turned by muscle power (human or equine?), but I'm not too sure. I also have a distant memory of an article in the old Model Railway News a couple of squillion years ago but I can't find it. Any info gratefully received.

Regards
Chris

[Paul Willis]

Does anyone have any drawings / information about wagon turntables, of the sort common on the old GER and GNR (and I daresay many other parts of the country too)? I'd like to include a couple on one of my sidings but I'm not sure of the dimensions or the construction: I seem to recall they were usually around 15 ft in diameter, of relatively light construction (and banned to locomotives), and turned by muscle power (human or equine?), but I'm not too sure. I also have a distant memory of an article in the old Model Railway News a couple of squillion years ago but I can't find it. Any info gratefully received.

Hi Chris,

There a 13 page article entirely about wagon turntables of the Great Eastern Railway in Great Eastern Journal 93.

What that doesn't say about construction and use doesn't seem worth knowing... Several diagrams and photos of different types, and of course there are pictures in numerous other editions of GEJ at various stations.

If you don't have the GEJ on DVD (issues 1-140) I can't recommend it highly enough as a research tool.

HTH
Flymo


HTH

[Jan]

Hi all

Does anyone have any drawings / information about wagon turntables, of the sort common on the old GER and GNR (and I daresay many other parts of the country too)? I'd like to include a couple on one of my sidings but I'm not sure of the dimensions or the construction: I seem to recall they were usually around 15 ft in diameter, of relatively light construction (and banned to locomotives), and turned by muscle power (human or equine?), but I'm not too sure. I also have a distant memory of an article in the old Model Railway News a couple of squillion years ago but I can't find it. Any info gratefully received.

Regards
Chris

Hi Chris,

Wrong end of the country, and it used to be 7ft gauge, but the article has interesting photos of the gubbins beneath....

Another Devonport Dockyard turntable is still in existence a few miles south of me. I THINK it's the same one featured in Paul Burkhalter's book on Devonport Dockyard. It's a 16footer.... If you need any photos, give me fair warning...

There was an article on wagon turntables in BRJ 11...

Cheers

Jan

[Wizard of the Moor]

Model Railways from October 1974 has a drawing of an LMS wagon turntable. Dimensions of a GER example at Sudbury are in MR April 1973.

BRJ 11, as Jan says, has an LNWR drawing.

[Armchair Modeller]

'19th Century Railway Drawings in 4mm Scale' by Alan Prior has 2 good drawings of wagon turntables made by London manufacturers, plus a drawing of a wagon hoist for the Eastern Counties Railway. Let me know if you need further info on these as the book is out of print and maybe not easy to get hold of.

[Chris Mitton]

Hi Paul - was great to meet at Scaleforum and put a face to the name, and thanks for the info - helpful as ever!

I'm not a member of the GER Society but it sounds as if i ought to be - I suspect more imminent damage to the plastic! ......

...and thanks to the others for the helpful links - I'm sure I can track down one or other of them, especially the GER example in MR

Regards
Chris

[Terry Bendall]

Outside the GE/GN area again but Midland Record No. 31 has a facinating picture on pages 90-91 of wagon turntables leading to the gasworks at Basford near Nottingham. There are five, all on the same siding and the interesting thing is that four of the five have small stop blocks to prevent wagons from rolling off the turntable onto the adjacent line. In addition, Bob Essery's latest book, Train Shunting and Marshalling for the Modeller, published by Ian Allan has several pictures of wagon turntables of different types, and in different locations. In my view the book is an essential source of information of prototype practice.

Terry Bendall

[Chris Mitton]

Thanks Terry

That may be more helpful than you think, as I get the impression the GER and Midland permanent way had a lot in common.....am I right in that surmise?

Regards
Chris

[Terry Bendall]

I get the impression the GER and Midland permanent way had a lot in common.....am I right in that surmise?

The short answer is Not Sure. Both of the GER and the Midland are outside my main area of interest which is the LBSC, but one of the points made by Bob Essery in one of his earlier books on Railway Operation is that there was a lot of common practice between the various companies. I expect there is someone on here who is better qualified than me to give a view.

Terry Bendall

[frizby]

If you anywhere near Coleford in the Forest of Dean then there is one in the GWR museum there. Not sure which manufacture. (As for no locos on TT!!!)

http://www.colefordgwr.150m.com/aboutus.html

Seems to be a similar topic running in RMweb

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... turntable/

Andy

[Hardwicke]

There are the remains of one at the Midland Railway - Butterley from Forge Mill, Bestwood Colliery, Notts (as it was called until about 15 years ago and the prototype of my layout). Sadly the building contractors removing it were a bunch of idiots, the council were as slow as any council ever are and the railway has no money to restore and install it. Result. It's a broken mess. A shame as until 5 years ago it was complete and in it's original 1870's location. I can draw up a quick sketch of it and it's innards if you want. It's not an easy one to model though as it has two tracks at right angles on it. A nightmare to isolate electrically as a model.
There used to be some on the docks at Hull NER as well but not sure if they are still there.
Michael.

[Hardwicke]

Worksop (MSLR /GCR) also had one east of the station The siding is about to become the site of ANOTHER Tesco. I'm not too sure how common they were on the GNR. Retford didn't have any, but Tuxford might have in the past, as might some of the East Lincolnshire lines.
Michael Prince

[Will L]

... It's not an easy one to model though as it has two tracks at right angles on it. A nightmare to isolate electrically as a model...

But then, as you wouldn't let a loco operate over it, electrical isolation isn't necessary.

Will

[David Knight]

I must confess to being fascinated by the idea of wagon turntables but have some problems seeing how they could be practical in a modelling situation. True one could use the HighLevel chassis to motorise some wagons and handle them that way but apart from that it seems to require the "big hand from the sky" trick. Could someone please explain further?

Cheers,

David

[barhamd]

If it were me I'd go for capstans and ropes. If arranged properly you might be able to arrange some of the coupling with rope to happen out of scene. The other approach is some king of pusher in the flangeway.

David Barham

[Dave K]

If it were me I'd go for capstans and ropes. If arranged properly you might be able to arrange some of the coupling with rope to happen out of scene. The other approach is some king of pusher in the flangeway.

David Barham

Re using a capstan and rope - I remembered see an entry on a RMweb blog using a chain instead of a rope which had a You Tube video of the whole operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1UA4ZxN6A

[frizby]

If it were me I'd go for capstans and ropes. If arranged properly you might be able to arrange some of the coupling with rope to happen out of scene. The other approach is some king of pusher in the flangeway.

David Barham

Re using a capstan and rope - I remembered see an entry on a RMweb blog using a chain instead of a rope which had a You Tube video of the whole operation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP1UA4ZxN6A

Definitely needs more weight in the wagon
Rope(thread) may have been better as chain looks as if it is too heavy.

[Will L]

I must confess to being fascinated by the idea of wagon turntables but have some problems seeing how they could be practical in a modelling situation. True one could use the HighLevel chassis to motorise some wagons and handle them that way but apart from that it seems to require the "big hand from the sky" trick. Could someone please explain further?

I tend to agree David but being GER orientated some of why would like to builds would include one or two.

On small installations where capstans would not be appropriate, and In the absence of a 4mm scale horse, you would use additional "reach" wagons to shunt across them, as they would on the prototype. Otherwise I think they would be primarily decorative.

[Hardwicke]

I must confess to being fascinated by the idea of wagon turntables but have some problems seeing how they could be practical in a modelling situation. True one could use the HighLevel chassis to motorise some wagons and handle them that way?
Cheers,
David

Which is how I did it. The High Level Flyshunt works well. One day I might get another one. It never fails to amuse the public. However on the turntable itself, the alignment of the tracks isn't great and I've not got the rails electrically live yet. I am using Gibson sprung pickups under the table, rubbing against a secondary PCB. In theory it should isolate itself and switch polarity as it moves. I cut the springs in half and reduced the length of the pickups in order to get them in the space. The motor is one of the cheap 'solar motors' that I got for a pound from an electrical shop in Sheffield connected to some cheap plastic gears. The same motors are sold to unsuspecting modellers as replacements for Lima Pancakes at considerably more. The table was spinning slowly at Nottingham exhibition a couple of years ago when the layout was on 'Demo" duty. It has never being invited as a complete layout.

[Chris Mitton]

Dimensions of a GER example at Sudbury are in MR April 1973.

Please does anyone have a copy of this issue of MR (copyright permitting)? I've failed miserably to locate one so far.....

Regards
Chris

[mikeh-49395]

Hi,

I too have built a layout with working wagon turntables:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... nge-entry/

It was before I considered P4 and as such is 16.5mm gauge.

However I don't think I'd build another layout like it, after about an hour operating it at an exhibition you really start to go daft(er)!

The shunting is all done with chains, I tried thread but it stretched too much.

Cheers

Mike