Hi everyone,
I would like to ask, if anyone has any Templot prototype pre-grouping period LNWR turnout and crossing templates that they might like to share with me.
I would also like to ask, if anyone has any prototype pre-grouping period LNWR turnout and crossing templates, done by the older method of pencil and paper drawing etc, that they also might like to share with me.
Hoping in anticipation.
All the best,
Brian.
Prototype LNWR templates required.
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grovenor-2685
- Forum Team
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Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
See http://www.scalefour.org/forum/s4-digests.php#23. Digest 23.5.5.7 if you haven't already.
Regards
Keith
Regards
Keith
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Jol Wilkinson
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:39 pm
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Brian,
is the attached may be what you are looking for?
Jol
P.S. Click on it to open the file
is the attached may be what you are looking for?
Jol
P.S. Click on it to open the file
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Brian-NSS-1921
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Hi Jol,
Apologies for not responding sooner, had business to addend to shortly after my posting.
In a nutshell, that’s the sort of information I have been seeking to enable me to make up custom templates from scratch in Templot.
It’s pure coincidence, that I have just spent almost the last hour on the telephone, talking to Ray Berry the LNWR archivist about those very drawings, I do in fact recognise that particular drawing from one that Ray sent me a short while ago, we were discussing the rather poor quality of the images of the files and what could be done about them.
The precise things I am looking for are the actual templates, both for Templot and hand made versions, which one lays onto the baseboard or uses for construction of the formation.
The Templot templates will most likely be in what is called a .BOX file, this file has all the vector data that produces the individual templates which were made using algorithms and the like, in the Templot program.
I suppose you could say, someone else has already put the data in and generated the templates, giving me a bit of a short cut so to speak.
To be honest, I am trying to save myself a lot of work and time, in having to enter loads of data in Templot to make the prototype templates and the check them for accuracy.
At the moment it looks as if I have the long haul ahead of me.
I am most grateful for your input, all and anything is welcome.
All the best,
Brian.
Apologies for not responding sooner, had business to addend to shortly after my posting.
In a nutshell, that’s the sort of information I have been seeking to enable me to make up custom templates from scratch in Templot.
It’s pure coincidence, that I have just spent almost the last hour on the telephone, talking to Ray Berry the LNWR archivist about those very drawings, I do in fact recognise that particular drawing from one that Ray sent me a short while ago, we were discussing the rather poor quality of the images of the files and what could be done about them.
The precise things I am looking for are the actual templates, both for Templot and hand made versions, which one lays onto the baseboard or uses for construction of the formation.
The Templot templates will most likely be in what is called a .BOX file, this file has all the vector data that produces the individual templates which were made using algorithms and the like, in the Templot program.
I suppose you could say, someone else has already put the data in and generated the templates, giving me a bit of a short cut so to speak.
To be honest, I am trying to save myself a lot of work and time, in having to enter loads of data in Templot to make the prototype templates and the check them for accuracy.
At the moment it looks as if I have the long haul ahead of me.
I am most grateful for your input, all and anything is welcome.
All the best,
Brian.
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Brian-NSS-1921
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Hi Keith,
As it turns out, I hadn’t.
I have just had a quick look at the drawings, they are just the ticket as far as plain track is concerned.
In essence though, they are reasonably simple to make in Templot, as you only have to go into the “plain track menu” and selct the required length of track you need, and the number of sleepers for that track length, then Templot generates the same item as in the PDF drawing.
The tricky bits are the turnouts and crossing, as these require considerably more data input, as you have to define all the dimensions such as distance from the toe to the tips of the front of the blades blade, the planning length, the distance to the heel, then the big one, all the spacing distances of all the chairs along the length of the formation, as well as all the info concerning the RAM ratio(s) for the Vee.
Then you have all the timbering info to put in just to round it off.
As you can see a lot of work for prototypical accuracy, but it’s worth it.
Many thanks for your information.
All the best,
Brian.
As it turns out, I hadn’t.
I have just had a quick look at the drawings, they are just the ticket as far as plain track is concerned.
In essence though, they are reasonably simple to make in Templot, as you only have to go into the “plain track menu” and selct the required length of track you need, and the number of sleepers for that track length, then Templot generates the same item as in the PDF drawing.
The tricky bits are the turnouts and crossing, as these require considerably more data input, as you have to define all the dimensions such as distance from the toe to the tips of the front of the blades blade, the planning length, the distance to the heel, then the big one, all the spacing distances of all the chairs along the length of the formation, as well as all the info concerning the RAM ratio(s) for the Vee.
Then you have all the timbering info to put in just to round it off.
As you can see a lot of work for prototypical accuracy, but it’s worth it.
Many thanks for your information.
All the best,
Brian.
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Brian-NSS-1921
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Hi Keith,
As a PS to my last.
The beauty is, that once someone has put all this data in, and carefully check the result for prototype accuracy, then those templates can be made available to anyone using Templot, if the originator is willing to share them.
In other words, you can make up a library of the templates for future use, that can be called up in Templot, whenever anyone requires them (or a single template for that matter).
A complete range of turnouts and crossings can be made to add to a library.
All the best,
Brian.
As a PS to my last.
The beauty is, that once someone has put all this data in, and carefully check the result for prototype accuracy, then those templates can be made available to anyone using Templot, if the originator is willing to share them.
In other words, you can make up a library of the templates for future use, that can be called up in Templot, whenever anyone requires them (or a single template for that matter).
A complete range of turnouts and crossings can be made to add to a library.
All the best,
Brian.
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Armchair Modeller
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Those drawings are very good - but some information suggests that the LNWR used interlaced sleepers for points - one drawing in the LNWR signalling book - also photos of the Leeds New Line, if I remember correctly. Were both styles used concurrently, or was there a change of policy some time in Edwardian days?
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Brian-NSS-1921
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
Hi Armchair Modeller,
I can only assume, you are referring to the sample of the drawing posted above by Jol.
Recently I received a set of these track-work drawings from the LNWR society, there is no doubt, that they are of immense assistance to detailing LNWR style track-work, and I am very pleased to have obtained them, However, due to the rather poor digitizing technique used to make the copies (not done by any of the LNWR society people I might add, as these were copied before they got them), some of the drawings you cannot read the details in certain areas, also on most of them there is dimensioning details that have been lost. Unfortunately, some of these dimensions are required as Templot input data, this is why I stated that they were of poor quality, and Ray Berry the LNWR society archivist agrees with me and is trying to locate the original drawings, done on linen, in order to get better copies done for future research and for his archive.
Now regarding the LNWR track-work and policy, in 1895 the LNWR started updating and replacing there track, particularly for main running track, at the same time, they also introduced the 60ft length of rail, with 24 sleepers per length, which was recommended to replace all running track from that time, but for a long time after that date, much of the track still remained unchanged.
I think it safe to say that, both styles could be seem at various sites for some time, until eventually the track-work was finally replaced. Also of course, one thing that slowed the work was the event of world war one, when the LNWR played a significant roll in troop movements, munitions, and for the unfortunate, hospital trains for the wounded.
I think the interleaving diagram you refer to is on page 216, also I know there was interleaving used at Birmingham New Street, particularly in the old fish sidings and the throat area there, which survived right up to the early 1960’s when the station underwent a major rebuild, and all old track-work was removed and replaced by modern flat bed.
All the best,
Brian.
I can only assume, you are referring to the sample of the drawing posted above by Jol.
Recently I received a set of these track-work drawings from the LNWR society, there is no doubt, that they are of immense assistance to detailing LNWR style track-work, and I am very pleased to have obtained them, However, due to the rather poor digitizing technique used to make the copies (not done by any of the LNWR society people I might add, as these were copied before they got them), some of the drawings you cannot read the details in certain areas, also on most of them there is dimensioning details that have been lost. Unfortunately, some of these dimensions are required as Templot input data, this is why I stated that they were of poor quality, and Ray Berry the LNWR society archivist agrees with me and is trying to locate the original drawings, done on linen, in order to get better copies done for future research and for his archive.
Now regarding the LNWR track-work and policy, in 1895 the LNWR started updating and replacing there track, particularly for main running track, at the same time, they also introduced the 60ft length of rail, with 24 sleepers per length, which was recommended to replace all running track from that time, but for a long time after that date, much of the track still remained unchanged.
I think it safe to say that, both styles could be seem at various sites for some time, until eventually the track-work was finally replaced. Also of course, one thing that slowed the work was the event of world war one, when the LNWR played a significant roll in troop movements, munitions, and for the unfortunate, hospital trains for the wounded.
I think the interleaving diagram you refer to is on page 216, also I know there was interleaving used at Birmingham New Street, particularly in the old fish sidings and the throat area there, which survived right up to the early 1960’s when the station underwent a major rebuild, and all old track-work was removed and replaced by modern flat bed.
All the best,
Brian.
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allanferguson
- Posts: 389
- Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:27 pm
Re: Prototype LNWR templates required.
By Cyril Freezer in 2000, writing about Percy Keen on the 90th anniversary of the MRC....
".......One of his tales, very apposite in view of Alan Blackburn's recent talk, related how, before WWI, a friend had a problem with crossing timbers on a piece of complex trackwork. They were due to ride on the LNWR inspection train, and there duly put the problem before the district engineer. He admitted he had no idea which alternative configuration was correct, but added that they were shortly to be joined by the division's most experienced ganger. Since the LNWR with some justification boasted the best permanent way in the world, he would know the answer. The ganger duly boarded the train, was introduced all round and then informed that these gentlemen had a problem for him. He studied the drawing for some time, removing his bowler hat and scratching his head. At length he came up with the answer "Well sir, when we gets a problem like this, we fudges it!" "
I like the approach!
Allan F
".......One of his tales, very apposite in view of Alan Blackburn's recent talk, related how, before WWI, a friend had a problem with crossing timbers on a piece of complex trackwork. They were due to ride on the LNWR inspection train, and there duly put the problem before the district engineer. He admitted he had no idea which alternative configuration was correct, but added that they were shortly to be joined by the division's most experienced ganger. Since the LNWR with some justification boasted the best permanent way in the world, he would know the answer. The ganger duly boarded the train, was introduced all round and then informed that these gentlemen had a problem for him. He studied the drawing for some time, removing his bowler hat and scratching his head. At length he came up with the answer "Well sir, when we gets a problem like this, we fudges it!" "
I like the approach!
Allan F
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