Flat-Bottom Track Using Brook-Smith Method

[Proton]

Hi Everyone,

I am close to constructing the last section of track on my layout, and it will be flat bottom code 82 on wooden sleepers, and a minimum of 3' radius.

I am 99% sure there are no ready to use track bases for this, and as I have a very large quantity of unused 8'6" sleepers and rivets, I was going to have a go at using the traditional Brook-Smith method of assembly.

Any comments/advice/vies on this approach please?

Yes, I know etched baseplates are available, but I have an aversion to glued track!

Thank you!

John

[Tim V]

I did it to recreate very light flat bottom track, I turned the 9' (!) sleepers upside down, and soldered to the rivets that way.
Don't forget, you don't 'need' to solder to every sleeper.

[Proton]

Hi Tim,

I had thought about turning the sleepers upside down - I take it there was enough metal to solder to then? This will be mainline track, so the code 82 will have a broader base than light rail. I might try a small section.

Thanks

John

[Tim V]

Surely there should be baseplates for main line track? I was recreating spiked flat bottom.

[jim s-w]

Hi Tim,

I had thought about turning the sleepers upside down - I take it there was enough metal to solder to then? This will be mainline track, so the code 82 will have a broader base than light rail. I might try a small section.

Thanks

John

Don't forget flat bottom plain track isn't vertical.

This is built with Colin Craig etches and mills clips

brettell-road-new-track-2.jpg (95.2 KiB) Viewed 978 times

[Julian Roberts]

Did you see this? Hope this helps

viewtopic.php?t=5707&start=500

Actually I think it starts a bit earlier, Tony's coverage of FB track building.
viewtopic.php?t=5707&start=450

Now realise its not copperclad sleeper construction you're looking for. Not deleting post just in case....

[Proton]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Whilst I like the Colin Craig baseplates, I just don't have the time required. I'll experiment with the JBS approach and see how it works out.

John

[Tony Wilkins]

Hello John.
How much Flat-Bottom track are you intending to make? The reason I ask is that I use Bill Bedford's Etches for the slide chairs with some turnouts I constructed. Each etch also contains 10 special chairs that could be used as "ordinary" baseplates that at a pinch could be used for plain track as these will fit around a rivet at the construction stage and they will improve the appearance of the finished track a bit. Strictly speaking the rivet heads are slightly thicker than a scale baseplate, but beggars can't be choosers and at least they match the etches. I had a mind to do this with some of my track, but never did and they are therefore surplus to requirements.
Let me know what length of track you intend to build and I will see if I have enough.
Regards
Tony.

[Terry Bendall]

I am close to constructing the last section of track on my layout, and it will be flat bottom code 82 on wooden sleepers, and a minimum of 3' radius.

I am 99% sure there are no ready to use track bases for this, and as I have a very large quantity of unused 8'6" sleepers and rivets, I was going to have a go at using the traditional Brook-Smith method of assembly.

Don't forget flat bottom plain track isn't vertical.

I have just measured the head of a standard track rivet and it was 0.6mm thick. The etched bases produced by Colin Craig for flat bottom track are about the same thickness. Therefore soldering flat bottom rail to standard track rivets would do the job but may not give the 1 in 20 inclination.

In March 2021 Tony Wilkins described on here the construction of a turnout using flat bottiom rail on rivetted wsooden sleepers. I made one of these following Tony's instructions which turned out well.

Don't forget, you don't 'need' to solder to every sleeper.

Possibly not but I think the risk of distortion is increased.

Strictly speaking the rivet heads are slightly thicker than a scale baseplate, but beggars can't be choosers and at least they match the etches.

If the rivet heads are too thick they can always be thinned down with a file.

Terry Bendall

[Tony Wilkins]

I have just measured the head of a standard track rivet and it was 0.6mm thick. The etched bases produced by Colin Craig for flat bottom track are about the same thickness. Therefore soldering flat bottom rail to standard track rivets would do the job but may not give the 1 in 20 inclination.

Strictly speaking the rivet heads are slightly thicker than a scale baseplate, but beggars can't be choosers and at least they match the etches.

If the rivet heads are too thick they can always be thinned down with a file.

Terry Bendall

That is close to my measurement of 25 thou for the rivet head thickness. Bull head chairs had a seat thickness of 1 3/4" (23 thou in scale)
Baseplates were 1 5/16" (17 thou in scale) so 6 thou less or 0.015mm. These are small amounts in our terms but can make a difference. Incidentally the Bill Bedford slide chair etch is made from 22 thou brass sheet for comparison, so the rivets are a fraction proud anyway, but probably of little consequence other than where the switch blades mate against the Stock rail.
I am not sure that the inclination of the rail in our scale makes much difference as the head profile leaves something to be desired. Of greater concern is the anorexic head width of most readily available FB rail although if one is aware of it one can take steps to mitigate it, although it can be more of an issue with pointwork.
Regards
Tony.

[Tony Wilkins]

Hello John.
How much Flat-Bottom track are you intending to make? The reason I ask is that I use Bill Bedford's Etches for the slide chairs with some turnouts I constructed. Each etch also contains 10 special chairs that could be used as "ordinary" baseplates that at a pinch could be used for plain track as these will fit around a rivet at the construction stage and they will improve the appearance of the finished track a bit. Strictly speaking the rivet heads are slightly thicker than a scale baseplate, but beggars can't be choosers and at least they match the etches. I had a mind to do this with some of my track, but never did and they are therefore surplus to requirements.
Let me know what length of track you intend to build and I will see if I have enough.
Regards
Tony.

As an alternative approach, you could do what I did on my layout Green Street when I wanted a length of Flat-Bottomed track. I used ply and rivet construction and fitted C&L ST baseplates, which strictly speaking are meant for pointwork, but at the time it was the only option available.
Regards
Tony.

[Proton]

Thank you Tony and others for your helpful comments. I have at least 12 yards of curved track to make, and last night I made a yard of half-track using Fast Tracks (Micro-Metalsmiths?) code 82 FB on a fully-populated jig of JBS sleepers, and I am very pleased with the result, with no excess solder om the inside face, and the outside face won't be visible, although it is also very good.

My best ever experience with FB is the Exactoscale concrete sleepered stuff from a few years back. The rail threaded in easily, and the representation of the clips is very good, especially from 3' away. Unfortunately no longer available, and no one has seen fit to duplicate, even with wooden simulated sleepers, oh well.

I will be carrying on with the JBS method, thank you for the kind offer of etched brass clips.

John

[Dave Franks]

I had great success with Bill Bedford's etched baseplates on scored copperclad sleepers, just right for my late fifties period.

BR Mk 1 flat bottom track with Bill Bedford baseplates.JPG (123.62 KiB) Viewed 518 times

About 3 metres of track was laid running into the platform, just like the real thing.

Showing the contrast to Bullhead.

Flatbottom to bullhead.JPG (103.28 KiB) Viewed 516 times

[Terry Bendall]

My best ever experience with FB is the Exactoscale concrete sleepered stuff from a few years back. The rail threaded in easily, and the representation of the clips is very good, especially from 3' away. Unfortunately no longer available,

Exactoscale "concrete" sleeper track bases for flat bottom rail are available from the Society Stores. I bought some a couple of months back.

Of greater concern is the anorexic head width of most readily available FB rail although if one is aware of it one can take steps to mitigate it, although it can be more of an issue with pointwork.

Some years back Society member Colin Craig supplied me with the following information about the size of rail scaled down and what was avaiable from the trade

Height Foot Head
Real world rail BS110, BS113A 2.08 1.83 0.91

Peco Code 82 2.06 1.74 0.88 No longer made
P4 Track code 82 N.Silver 2.08 1.78 0.93 Not available
P4 Track code 82 Steel 2.08 1.76 0.91 Still listed
C&L code 82 2.08 1.73 0.80 Not available
EM gauge Soc Code 83 2.11 1.87 0.91 Available from EMGS

Code 83 is the nearest and a few months ago the EMGS stores had some in stock. The FB rail available from the Society stores is a bit undersize.

Terry Bendall

[Proton]

Thanks Terry, I hadn't realized Stores has the Exactoscale items in stock, I need the concrete bases and bullhead gauge-widened items too.

John

[stephenfreeman]

Just noticed this topic. It might be of interest to not that code 82 rail HiNi is available from Karlgarin, of course it is really intended for Narrow Gauge use and the base might be a little too wide (it is just a tad too wide for Peco pandrols).

I cannot find the Bill Bedford baseplates.

[Tony Wilkins]

I cannot find the Bill Bedford baseplates.

Hi Stephen.
Many years ago Bill Bedford did an etch for producing BR1 baseplates with elastic spikes as shown in Dave Franks pictures. These were overtaken by Colin Craig's etches so have not been available for some years. Some years ago at a Scaleforum I found one etch in a tray of clearance items.

What I was offering were the leftovers from his Slide and and special chair etches which are just flat with no raised detail.
Regards
Tony.