Masokits etched chairs turnout construction

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
Julian Roberts
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Masokits etched chairs turnout construction

Postby Julian Roberts » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:53 pm

Hi folks

I've done a search of the Forum using various combinations of the words of this subject heading. Not much comes up. So I wonder if there is anyone who is successfully using this way of making bullhead track - Masokits (or any other?) etched chairs on copperclad sleepers/timbers?

I'm intending to make bullhead pointwork using copperclad - though I hope to use Exactoscale Fast Track for plain track. I know most of you use plastic chairs glued to ply sleepers or clicked onto plastic ones to make your track and pointwork. I'm much happier wielding a soldering iron, getting my high from phosphoric acid fumes rather than solvent :D as with the JBS ply and rivet method, which I have tried.

It seems to me an alternative is to build the turnout using shim to represent the base of the chair and give the height above the timber (0.75mm would match the Fast Track), and use plastic chairs (sanded down from underneath then cut in half) glued on after everything was proven to be working. Whichever way, it will be laborious, though hopefully good Zen.
Last edited by Julian Roberts on Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tim V
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Tim V » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:44 pm

I built about a six inch length of Masokits track. Very strong, but a lot of work. In the location I was using it, ideal. For general track making - the plastic stuff looks better.
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Martin Wynne » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:01 pm

Julian Roberts wrote:So I wonder if there is anyone who is successfully using this way of making track - Masokits (or any other?) etched chairs on copperclad sleepers/timbers?

Hi Julian,

Paul Boyd has used the Masokits system for some complex pointwork. See his photo album here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pjmarlow/ ... 6156772788

Scroll down to the second half of the album. Click the pictures to see them larger.

Image
image linked from https://live.staticflickr.com/4903/4427 ... ed54_b.jpg © Paul Boyd

See also:

https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php? ... 437#p20437

Paul is a regular contributor on the Templot Club forum, if you start a topic on there he will probably reply.

cheers,

Martin.
Last edited by Martin Wynne on Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:26 pm

That looks excellent Martin. Thanks, I'll do as you suggest tomorrow.

Tim most of the layout is plain track which will be done as easily as possible!

4479
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby 4479 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:45 pm

Julian,

Nearly all of my c100 turnouts, slips and diamond are made using Masokits etched point kits. I have built turnouts and some plain track in the distant past using ply and rivet, but chose the Masokits system as it seemed to offer me the best chance of building the complex formations I needed. Also, since physical access to some areas of the station throat would become difficult in due course, I hoped that the strength of the finished product might help reduce the need for onward maintenance. I haven't been disappointed in either case, and that strength has also been an advantage when handling large formations in the course of installation. Plastic chair-based pointwork became available some time after I started, but I haven't been tempted to change as I am comfortable with the building process - like you I am happier with a soldering iron than I am with a paintbrush. I grant there is a visual benefit when using ply sleepers, but in my case the viewing distances involved reduces that disadvantage and I am very happy with the general appearance of what I have built. In any event I wouldn't trust using plastic and ply for some of what I build - I'm sure others have great success with it but I know my skills limit. A small bonus is that I can put the finished pointwork under the shower and give it a good hard scrub to remove flux residue.

As for any difference in time taken to build a particular formation, I can't really help as I have never tried to compare this aspect, but I suspect the difference ends up being minimal, especially compared with the ply and rivet method with chairs added afterwards. How long it takes isn't the main priority for me. I've found that one gets quite quickly into the method of construction. I didn't make a chair folding jig as per John Hayes MRJ article, but simply fold them with a thumbnail while holding in flat nosed pliers - it's very quick. And I generally I fold batches of chairs during the evening, sat in front of the TV, using a small partitioned box to hold the different types. In that way I can prepare for the next session in comfort and without spending all my time in the workshop.

Finally I can add that I also use flexitrack for my extensive plain track, with gauge widened Fast Track for the curves. There was no way I was going to use Masokits for 30ft of four track main line!

I've attached photos to show a few examples, and hopefully give you some confidence to have a go.

Regards,
Bob
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:09 am

My experience of building track and turnouts with etched track bases and copper clad has only been with flat bottom rail. This has mainly been done using the Colin Craig range of track components and some Masokits BR3 type bases (for third rail). They all work well but it is very slow and tedious.

As with any type of soldered construction one advantage is that the track can be tweaked with the aid of a soldering iron to deal with any subsequent problems.

Terry Bendall

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:33 am

Hi Bob

That is certainly inspirational! Kings Cross, as in MRJ a while back I think? (Which number was it I wonder?) Thank you for showing those pictures. I will order some. The catalogue lists a choice of two bolt chairs and three bolt chairs, I assume I will need both.

Do you use the Masokits tie bars too, and if so do you use them cosmetically or actually operate the blades with them?

Hi Terry

Thanks. It's a shame that Colin Craig is no longer trading. Do you know what has happened to him and/or his products? Long ago I was going to make a model of Skipton in 00. Bill Bedford designed a BR1 baseplate with 3 elastic spikes for me, I bought loads of FB rail, and made a demo 60' length of track, and that's as far as it got. I do like the appearance of FB track. Folding up the spikes and curling them over the rail was time consuming, from a 00 mindset point of view. That was before CC's products came on the market. BB never marketed the design as far as I know.

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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby 4479 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:49 pm

Yes, it's Kings Cross, or at least as much of it as I have built. It's appeared twice in MRJ, but I think what you remember was in issue 195 - a long time ago now and more pointwork added since then. I also did a piece on Masokits 'tie bars' in MRJ216. I got rightly pulled up by Peter Squibb as they should correctly be stretcher bars, but that's what Mike C calls them... Anyway yes, I use them to operate the blades, built exactly as per the kit, and with Tortoise point motors providing the throw. No lever frame for me, but then the prototype was all electro-mechanical point motors after 1933, which saves me building a 220 lever frame and associated linkage. The stretcher bars are slightly stiff, but I get round that by using 0.9mm wire as the Tortoise throw arm rather than the 0.6 supplied. This is what Circuitron recommends for O gauge pointwork so it's within the capability of the motor and I have had no failures.

As an LMS man I'd assume you just need three bolt chairs? The two bolt are primarily intended for GWR layouts although I couldn't rule out some specials elsewhere - I'm not an expert.

Finally I'm with Terry 100% on maintainability and adjustment - it's fairly painless and no risk of melting anything. Not that my pointwork ever needs adjusting...

Good luck, I'll be interested to hear how you get on.

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:25 am

I thought I'd write a kind of blog to recount my efforts with the Masokits system, having been spurred on to give it a go from the replies here and on the Templot Club forum. I thought it might be helpful for anyone else in my situation. I have made about 7 unchaired turnouts in P4, soldering directly to copperclad or ply and rivet sleepers, and am well used to the practical problems involved with making them actually work, but have till now avoided, and felt zero interest in, the chairing. Seeing Paul Boyd and Bob How's trackwork has changed my attitude there. However I'm very glad to have had the experience making rather basic turnouts before embarking on realistic ones as the intricacies of realism could well have been so engrossing that I would have been unaware of the real model practicalities necessary for good running, as every adjustment after construction will involve a chair too.

The etches arrived about three weeks after ordering. Only cheques are accepted and they have to clear before the order is sent out. Very good instructions are included.

My layout plan includes one turnout where the switch and closure area is off scene so I started with this to get some practice. Some sleepers are missing as they aren't all necessary. It is unprototypical, only the mainline radius is prototypical, the turnout road being shortened to give my minimum radius, with "model" switches in the Templot switch setting.

I started at the switch end, to get some practice at the running chairs, even though the switch area is going to be have to be done carefully or the A length switches in the 48" radius may cause derailments. The switch is gauge widened from the very start or toe by 0.2mm, and there are joggles, which I expect not to incorporate elsewhere.

Running chairs (as used on plain track) are the starting point of understanding the Masokits system. There are two parts or halves to each chair, one outside the rail and one inside. The outside half is the business half, and creates the necessary rail height above the sleeper, and it is suggested to make the whole track, and if necessary fettle it till successful running is achieved, before adding the inside half of each chair.

Point chairs are mostly cosmetic variations of this basic concept, slide chairs being the first exception I encountered.

The etches are totally user friendly and very easy to fold up. Well, compared with a lot of stuff I've made. They require no fettling, nor do the tabs need to be removed - the system is designed to work and look right without the bother of doing that. It's slightly tricky to get the first rail upright and onto the first half chair, but as I was using some rail that was in unwanted EM gauge plastic sleepers it was easy to use a couple of those, raised to the right height with some layers of tape, to hold the rails upright.

20200804_164337.jpg


The two running chairs were done and then it was slide chairs through the tricky part of the switch, the set to the stockgauge, and these chairs made it all easier if anything. Here I'm using a bit of rail to set the stockgauge.

20200804_173542-1.jpg

20200804_183940.jpg



I make the switch area stockrails the length of the prototype to make them easier to adjust over this critical area. Somewhere along here towards the rail joint (where the the slide chairs are clearly not long enough) the next type of chair is used, which according to the instructions are the extended chairs.

20200806_221344-1.jpg


Understanding which type of chair should be used and where, is what has caused most head scratching as I don't have much prototype knowledge and the instructions are brief, rightly saying there is plenty of information out there...but I haven't got it! - till I downloaded a C&L template from the Society and for the first time looked closely at all the chair drawings and locations. So on the C&L template the next chairs after slidechairs are called switch chairs, and after that are bridge chairs. Respectively Masokits call these extended chairs and narrow chairs. No matter, they look right, though I didn't notice the extended chairs had both inside 1 bolt and outside 2 bolt variations.

I started to fixed the rest of the mainline stockrail using the narrow or bridge chairs.

My previous experience has shown me that model rail switches are much less flexible than the real thing and need to be free to move where on the prototype they are fixed down in the point chairs, or else they are very stiff and tend towards a dog leg shape when not closed against the stockrail. For this reason I normally make them long enough to reach the knuckle rail joint and leave them unfixed for the first few chair positions.

I fixed the switch rail to two narrow chairs (bridge chairs in C&L speak) beyond the joint mark. Then I fixed the inside extension chairs (point chairs) onto the rail but not the sleepers. There are "fillers" to represent the fact that the chair is joined to its other half outside the stockrail, but this I will fix to the stockrail and leave a gap for movement.

20200805_185627.jpg

20200806_083739.jpg


So that's the progress so far. Of course getting exactly the right chair in exactly the right place isn't going to be the ultimate nirvana in modelling. But it won't look much good unless it's roughly correct

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Martin Wynne » Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:10 am

Julian Roberts wrote:Understanding which type of chair should be used and where, is what has caused most head scratching as I don't have much prototype knowledge and the instructions are brief, rightly saying there is plenty of information out there...but I haven't got it! - till I downloaded a C&L template from the Society and for the first time looked closely at all the chair drawings and locations. So on the C&L template the next chairs after slidechairs are called switch chairs, and after that are bridge chairs.

Hi Julian,

Detailed chairing diagrams are available on the Exactoscale web site:

https://exactoscale.com/track-component ... positions/

(that page is very slow to load, but arrives eventually)

Click the blue labels to download the PDF files.

Zoom in to 300% or more to see detailed chair drawings.

p.s the next chairs after slide-chairs are usually called Block chairs. Within turnouts, the short square 4-screw L1 Bridge chairs are used where there isn't room for ordinary S1 chairs. Bridge chairs are primarily for use on waybeam baulk timbering on bridges, hence the name.

cheers,

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:10 pm

Hi Martin

Thank you for noticing this and putting me right. I meant to preface all the above stuff about chairs with the words "as far as I can see". I'll go onto the Exactoscale website and do as you say, and set about getting my head round that!

Meantime I've just been doing what I think is the most critical part of the switch, making sure that the diverging stockrail is sufficiently far from the blade where it is unfixed. With a pin holding the switch against the mainline stockrail at the stockgauge, which the stretcher bars will do, the gauge tool must fit over the next few sleepers length. It is easy to slightly bend the flexing switch rail outwards which will, when the gauge tool is removed, result in the switch rail springing back inwards, and that area being narrow to the intended gauge, a sure recipe for problems. Having bent the switch rail to give a good curve following the template, I regard that as the datum and adjust the stockrail to suit.
20200807_131608.jpg

That is the downside of allowing the blade plenty of freedom to flex. I did find I lost the half block chair when doing this adjustment and had to use another one. Actually I cheated and used a narrow chair finding it slightly easier to manipulate and adjust but I'm not telling anyone. :shock:

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:18 am

Afternoon session took me to the switch area complete.

I found that I got a neater result by applying the soldering iron to the opposite side of the rail when fixing on the outside half chairs, and this more reliably fixed the rail to the chair as well as chair to the sleeper.

This time I put in the "fillers" before laying down the straight switch rail, much easier than trying to do it without accidentally soldering down my moving chair on the switchrail.

The problem of adjusting the diverging stock rail for the first few sleepers after the stockgauge made me wonder if complete chairs , i.e. both halves, might be easier to shift, as I found the outer half just slid or fell over under the rail. I completed the inner halves in any case despite not having any stock with me, being reasonably sure there won't be any running problems.

I was reminded that my order of constructionat the switch is mainline stockrail, diverging stockrail as far as the stockgauge only, diverging switchrail complete to knuckle joint, diverging stockrail, mainline switch rail.

The instructions recommend using paste flux for the inner halves to help keep them in position but I found it easier to use my ordinary phosphoric acid flux and hold them with my recent invaluable acquisition, titanium tweezers.
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Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:42 am

THE CROSSING

My particular way of making the crossing is not necessarily the easiest nor the conventional one, so any reader must ignore that aspect of this resume of using the chairs, but I can't write this without incorporating my procedure. The crossing is an X, not just a V - the wing/knuckle rails alignment which forms the knuckle, are just as critical as the V. I make the crossing separately from the stock rails, so that the result is as if buying a ready made one, then add check rails, and finally stock rails. This turnout is curved, the first curved one I've made, so there is some unfamiliarity there. Quite possibly both roads are curving through the crossing which is another change as my procedure was worked out for a straight crossing. But I'm doing my usual thing in any case.

The main road stock rail had been fixed down to a point a few sleepers down from the crossing. The crossing V was given its height piece ("nosing support") which I filed down to be completely flush, though in retrospect I think that was unnecessary so long as it isn't more than half a mm proud. This is two sleepers worth of length. I think I might use a simple piece of 0.5mm thick brass shim next time.

I removed the two sleepers that show the V and the knuckle so that I could see the rail positions precisely. Putting a block of 0.5mm brass shim under the other end of the V rails I soldered it down to the adjacent sleeper, then replaced the sleeper and soldered the V to it, so it was now soldered to two sleepers.

20200815_150405.jpg
V fixed to adjacent sleeper

20200815_150603.jpg
Sleeper replaced. This shows the shim at the other end


I then fixed the full length of the V rails down. I realised later this was a mistake, as the chairs prevent the crossing flangeway shims and straight edge being placed so easily against the rails.

20200815_161058.jpg
V fixed


I cut the knuckle/wing rail precisely to length. On this turnout (which is offstage beyond the crossing) I for some reason had cut the switch rails short of the full length up to the joint, so these knuckle/wing rails are much longer than normal.

I made the knuckle bend with round nose pliers, having made a mark where to do this corresponding to the middle of the three marks Templot makes here. I find I can't tell afterwards without this mark precisely where the bend is centred.

It was quite a fiddle getting the first wing/knuckle rail sitting correctly as well as aligned precisely with the V (with a straight edge and flangeway gauge) ready to be soldered into its first chair. After a botched attempt using a half chair
20200816_105340.jpg
Failure

I opted to cheat and used a bit of strip to get it soldered into position in one place. However having got that first attachment done (using two track gauges to hold the rail correctly upright, sitting on 0.5mm brass)
20200816_113108.jpg
Showing brass and gauges to get rail level and upright.

it was plain sailing to fix the chairs into position,
20200816_121857.jpg
Wingrail fixtures done

removing the piece of strip as I went.

When doing this process it's not possible to see the 3 knuckle marks Templot makes so I made a small mark the other side of the rail drawing to align the knuckle mark on the rail. The centre mark on the template is the centre of the knuckle rail bend, the two others show the extent of the curve of the bend. (I hope I'm right in thinking!)
20200816_130535.jpg
I made a small mark on the other side of the rail drawing. Yet despite my best endeavours the rail marks don't precisely line up!

20200816_194237.jpg
Showing knuckle marks on rails with Templot 3 marks visible below. The mark on the rail where I bent it should be above the centre mark of the three on the Templot template.

Getting the second one down was easier and could be done without the strip dodge.
20200816_130121.jpg
Second wing/knuckle was easier.


From then on it has been plain sailing.
20200816_133513.jpg

Slow work yes, but quite therapeutically undemanding compared with some of my modelling challenges, allowing me to contemplate the pleasure of having my first free August since 1976! - normally this has been the Proms and Edinburgh Festival season in the life of a musician.
20200816_131016.jpg
The objective being that the flangeway gauge can be placed through the knuckle on each road. This is the more curving turnout road so the flangeway gauge won't go any further.

Now with the knuckle sleeper reinstated and showing flangeway gauge through main route
20200817_121118.jpg


Please ignore the photo repetition below, I don't seem to be able to find which one to delete...
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Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:32 pm

CHECK RAILS

The important thing here is that the rails are at least the specified distance from the crossing (18.15mm distance from outside of check rail to running rail) - not less.

Attaching them relatively straight forward. Remembering that the absolute accuracy of the check gauge is compromised by the varying widths of rail in the tool's check rail slot, lightly pushing the half chair against the rail means the rail is accurately against the outside of the slot. Much easier without the stock rail in the way.
20200817_124211.jpg
Getting the first chair fixed. Shims for height at each end. The check gauge tool holds the rail vertical. The gauge tool on the right is holding the check rail somewhere roughly in place.

20200817_132433.jpg

Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:25 pm

Turnout road complete and tested, wagon runs sweetly. The long timbers are for part of the parallel line.
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Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:36 pm

I forgot to say above that with the triangular gauge on the diverging route, the widening was approx the same as the C&L + 0.1 gauge, so I used that through the crossing where the triangular gauge isn't usable.

I found I had made a slightly suboptimal alignment on the main route closure rail (which was part of the wing/knuckle rail). I should have gauged that from the stock rail. I think the outside rail of a curve needs to be laid first, and checked it is smoothly curving, before fixing the inner rail.

The first thing that happened when I lifted the turnout off the template was that the first switch rail sleeper came loose. Moral, these must be fixed down with plenty of solder - though none must be along the inside of the stock rail where the switch rail mates against it.

Next thing, it was quite floppy lengthwise till I soldered some fishplates at the rail joint - and here I found my fishplates (Brassmasters) were too long - partly because the chair keys each side of the joint were facing towards each other. Moral, make the keys face outwards here, even if that's not quite correct prototypically. For the same reason I fixed some rail on the outside of the sleepers where my unprototypical joints in the switch rails are. It's offstage so won't matter but could be removed once the turnout is safely stuck down.

I folded up the stretcher bar as per instructions. I think the first 90 degrees could be done on a firm straight edge before completing the fold around the fret. I found the copperclad strip difficult to cut with a knife but with the second set I used cutters and found the strip snapped off where I'd scored it. I didn't realise it's quite OK to solder it all up generously, the insulation needed will be provided by the next stage. A reasonable amount of solder is needed for the rigidity of the thing, I think.

Having spent an age drilling out one of the operating wire holes from excess solder I should have put the wire through and fixed it before filing away the fold tabs! Decided not to risk soldering wire on.

Now the trickiest part, soldering stretcher bars to switch rails. First check again the switch rails can go home properly against stock rails. IDEALLY THE SIDE OF THE SWITCHRAIL THAT GOES AGAINST THE STOCKRAIL WOULD BE TREATED WITH SOLDERMASK BEFORE FIXING DOWN ONTO SLEEPERS. And tinned at the location of the stretchers. Difficult to do the mask now. The stockrail needs a bit of paper to prevent it all being soldered together. Cigarette paper gives a bit too tight clearance I think.

My first attempt resulted in the switchrail unable to properly close. Too much solder ( but better than it coming unsoldered in service?) so some had crept round behind. Maybe the technique should be to solder it while closed firmly against the stockrail, so that there's no room for the solder to creep round, given there's paper there.

With the bar fixed on, the opening gap was too narrow, but all that was necessary was to resolder the blades to be really snugly against the housings for them.
20200821_110109.jpg

The photo shows that with just one stretcher bar the diverging blade is not snug against the stockrail rail all the way to the stockgauge. As mentioned earlier this will result in a narrow gauge at this critical place, worse here because I made this an A length switch to save space, and all my locos will need to go through this 48" radius place.
20200821_153755.jpg

With the second bar fixed on the blade houses properly when set in this direction. I have the option of throwing the switch from this bar rather than the one at the tips, to be really sure the blade goes right home. With a joggle the tip is not so critical as on an undercut blade without joggle.
20200821_153726.jpg

It's certainly a fiddle getting the stretcher bars and blades set up right and hopefully I'll get better at it (I'll have to, the remaining blades won't have joggles), but I think once done it looks far better, with the blades the correct distance apart, and should result in far less fiddle setting them up from under the baseboard.

Morals: Main road stock rail first up to the crossing. At rail joints make the keys face away. When preparing switch rail tin it where the bars will fix on, permanent marker ink on the reverse side. Fix stock rails really properly through the switch, make sure they are absolutely clean where the switch rail abuts them.

I found useful advice from 2010 on the Forum viewtopic.php?f=5&t=824&p=4853&hilit=stretcher+bars#p4853

20200821_213929-1.jpg
Completed largely offstage turnout

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby grovenor-2685 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:54 pm

Julian Roberts wrote: and here I found my fishplates (Brassmasters) were too long - partly because the chair keys each side of the joint were facing towards each other. Moral, make the keys face outwards here, even if that's not quite correct prototypically.

Keys at a joint are always hammered in towards the joint, very difficult to do it the other way, you would have to swing the hammer through the fishplate bolts. So what you should have done is the prototypical way.
Regards
Keith
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Julian Roberts
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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:12 pm

Thanks Keith for that useful tip. Regarding the subject of key direction in general, is it right that rails generally creep in the direction of travel, so keys are driven in against it? I.e. generally from the left. In the case of a single line or siding is there a custom/practice?

Another complete turnout has been made for my Kyle MPD layout, and I've embarked on the tandem. The turnout switch roads are incomplete until I can test if the undercut blades are doing their job without the model joggle cliché that most model turnouts (probably wisely) employ.
20200911_155938.jpg
Shed siding turnout

20200912_193151.jpg
Two crossings done

A couple of pictures to show how I'm now tackling the first steps of getting a rail fixed upright. I have soldered piece of rail to a bit of 0.5mm strip using the grippy gauge in the picture. Fix a couple of incompletely folded half chairs in their approximate position as per the template.
20200911_212859.jpg
Half complete chairs in approximate place

20200911_213118.jpg
Grippy gauge

Then place the rail approximately in position on these half chairs (to get the right height), gripping it with the gauge with the opposite bit of rail (to get the right verticality). Lightly solder at one end, then fix properly from the other. Soon the first light fix can be adjusted or abandoned.

I am making these turnouts while enjoying permanent holiday in our caravan. I haven't brought the previously competed turnout to finish the tiebar issues. The movement is quite stiff, which I attributed to the very close slide tolerance of a fag paper between underside of stockrail and top of tiebar. I was working at that movement intermittently with Brasso. When I clean that up and lubricate the movement it will be evident whether the problem is solved, but I suspect that two tiebars fixed to the blades at each end are too rigid a structure for the slight flexing that is really needed.

The blade really needs to be operated at each tiebar, to get the blade fully pressed against the stockrail all the way along the planing. I haven't worked out a way of doing that yet, that will look prototypical. It's not something that people talk about anywhere I've seen. If I don't modify the tiebar operation mentioned above the linkage to manual levers may have to be very robust also.

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Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:44 pm

Julian Roberts wrote:Thanks Keith for that useful tip. Regarding the subject of key direction in general, is it right that rails generally creep in the direction of travel, so keys are driven in against it? I.e. generally from the left. In the case of a single line or siding is there a custom/practice?

See https://www.scalefour.org/members/digests/dl.php?f=23-5-2v1-3.pdf
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

Julian Roberts
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:22 pm

Ah thanks Keith so I was both right and wrong!

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Martin Wynne
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 4:27 pm

Re: Masokits etched chairs

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:22 pm

Drive keys "towards the joint, towards the station, towards the river" is the old saying.

i.e. towards the nearest rail joint; where trains will be braking or accelerating; downhill.

"drive" means the direction the keys are driven into the chair. The rear end of the key remains projecting in the opposite direction. This has caused confusion with the labelling and ordering of some model chairs.

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...

Julian Roberts
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Re: Masokits etched chairs turnout construction

Postby Julian Roberts » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:36 pm

Yes, a rhyme always helps learn something Martin. I'm afraid a close examination of my track for key direction may reveal considerably greater sins, my aim is rather the general impression coupled with the strength and adjustability of soldered construction.

I'm rather pleased that my first undercut blades for my Kyle project seem to be working perfectly. I rather feared that a slip of the file when the turnout side blade was nearly completed after about 90 minutes would ruin it, but it seems not. I tested all my short wheelbase wagons through the turnout road about 10 times each way round. The little wagons I found were the most susceptible to flange climbing when making my previous efforts for "Calderside", but I've learned quite a lot about undercut blades since then especially from Tony Wilkins' turnout construction thread.



The blade is held shut by a pin acting where the tiebar will in due course.

Meanwhile here is today's progress on the tandem with all crossings completed.
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