Turnout construction - Question here please.

Discuss the prototype and how to model it.
Julian Roberts
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Julian Roberts » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:20 pm

Thanks Tony. Yes Martin and Keith answered nearly all my questioning on that.
Just regarding the actuation of the switchblades, I ask only in case any of us think that as the blade ends are thinner than is sometimes the case perhaps, will a solder connection to the TOU very near the tip as is normal actually move the whole length of the switch, the full length of the planing, as it needs to be firmly against the stock rail all the way to the stockgauge....?

By the way I wasn't meaning to ask what kind of under baseboard actuation you use.

shawg
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby shawg » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:19 am

Tony Wilkins wrote:
grovenor-2685 wrote:Given this is an Exactoscale product that even Len assumed non-existent, who would you expect to sue for breach of copyright?
A quick word with 2 or 3 people should easily clear it.
However, it's so simple to make a jig with two bits of stripwood, eg sleepers, whenever needed, that it was probably a very poor seller and would likely stay that way. Some things are useful, others a waste of effort.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html Very first picture!
Regards

That is the way I used to do it but with strips of artist mounting card stuck on a block of chipboard.
That little etch is just so much more convenient to have in ones tool box. It just seems a shame that the artwork is there and is not being used. I for one would like to have a second one as a spare.
The other question of course is just how many crossing vees is the average modeller likely to want to make in his lifetime anyway?
Regards
Tony.
hi
Is there any reason for not using the filing jig as an assembly aid
regards
geoff

PhilipT
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby PhilipT » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:06 pm

When I use my filing jig for soldering I find that the two rails don't quite line up in the vertical plane (presumably the grooves are very slightly out and this is magnified by the rails hanging off the end of the jig) - I then have to apply a slight twisting downward pressure on the jig against a piece of Formica laminate whilst I apply the iron. I don't always get it right and have to re-solder with a different twist(!). Things line up far better with both rails out of the jig and on a flat surface.

Phil

shawg
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:04 pm

Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby shawg » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:29 pm

I may have been lucky with mine no problems just that's what I thought the centre slot and clamp were for

geoff

PhilipT
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby PhilipT » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:32 pm

You're right - it's just that mine doesn't work.

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:20 pm

Hi Geoff.
The centre slot is indeed intended to hold one of the rails for soldering. That is what the instructions I received with my filing jig showed. Like Philip, I was not convinced by the alignment of the point and splice rail when held so far back from the intended solder join. The flatter the angle, the worse this becomes. They will only be correctly aligned when just touching with zero side force, assuming there is no vertical or twist errors. Not something the Vee assembly jig that I use always totally eliminates either come to that, but it does hold the two rails firmly in contact and in the correct relationship to each other whilst soldering.
Regards
Tony.

MikeH
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby MikeH » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:56 am

I have been trying my hand at making vee's. The one in the pictures is about my 5th attempt, I think I am getting there but just wondering if it looks ok? Do you guys solder it together from the top or bottom of the rails?

Cheers
Attachments
vee top.jpg
vee top side.jpg
vee side.jpg

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:21 am

I always put my vees head down in the jig, hence solder from the bottom.
See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html
Yours looks perfectly satisfactory, good for the 5th one.
Regards

MikeH
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby MikeH » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:22 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:I always put my vees head down in the jig, hence solder from the bottom.
See http://www.norgrove.me.uk/points.html
Yours looks perfectly satisfactory, good for the 5th one.
Regards


Thanks Keith,

I will knock up another one and solder it from the bottom.

Cheers

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steve howe
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby steve howe » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:06 pm

Brian Harrap has a nifty way of making crossing vees using a vice and big file.... :shock: described in his own inimitable way here:


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37678-handbuilt-track/page-2?hl=harrap#entry439446

I've tried it and it works a treat!


Steve

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Martin Wynne » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:21 pm

steve howe wrote:Brian Harrap has a nifty way of making crossing vees using a vice and big file.... :shock: described in his own inimitable way here:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37678-handbuilt-track/page-2?hl=harrap#entry439446
I've tried it and it works a treat!
Steve

I agree with Brian that vees are much easier to file after assembling them. See: viewtopic.php?p=59078#p59078

cheers,

Martin.
39 years developing Templot. And counting ...

MikeH
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby MikeH » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:15 pm

Thanks, I will try that way too :)

Enigma
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Enigma » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:32 pm

steve howe wrote:Brian Harrap has a nifty way of making crossing vees using a vice and big file.... :shock: described in his own inimitable way here:


http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/37678-handbuilt-track/page-2?hl=harrap#entry439446

I've tried it and it works a treat!


Steve

I'm sure I remember Alex Bowie describing this method of Vee making in the Model Railway Constructor around 1960'ish. TBH, I've always thought it should be relatively easy to do but I've shied away from it because it doesn't seem to fit in with the basic P4 philosphy of getting it all right. :)

Tony Wilkins
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:12 pm

MikeH wrote:I have been trying my hand at making vee's. Do you guys solder it together from the top or bottom of the rails?

Cheers


Hi Mike.
I have always soldered my Crossing Vee rails together with them held in position in the assembly jig with the rails head uppermost so I can see that they are a good fit. The join surfaces are fluxed first, then I place the tinned iron on the top surface of the rails, but the solder, which is a fine 0.7mm diameter multicored wire, is fed into the webs in between the two rails and follows the heat toward the crossing nose by capillary action.
If there is more than one of doing something............
Regards
Tony.

MikeH
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:26 am

Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby MikeH » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:08 am

Tony Wilkins wrote:
MikeH wrote:I have been trying my hand at making vee's. Do you guys solder it together from the top or bottom of the rails?

Cheers


Hi Mike.
I have always soldered my Crossing Vee rails together with them held in position in the assembly jig with the rails head uppermost so I can see that they are a good fit. The join surfaces are fluxed first, then I place the tinned iron on the top surface of the rails, but the solder, which is a fine 0.7mm diameter multicored wire, is fed into the webs in between the two rails and follows the heat toward the crossing nose by capillary action.
If there is more than one of doing something............
Regards
Tony.


Thanks Tony,

That's what I did with the one above but ended up with alot of solder on the top of the rails, I guess I just used too much. I shall keep practicing..

Cheers
Michael

Philip Hall
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:24 am

I prefer Brian’s method of vee construction simply because it’s quicker and easier. It doesn’t bother me that it’s not ‘quite right’ because it’s almost impossible to tell that when it’s in place on the turnout!

Philip

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Re6/6
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Re6/6 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:57 pm

I agree with you completely Phil. Ever since Brian showed me his method it has been the way to go for me. It's so quick, easy and accurate whatever the angle.
John

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David B
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby David B » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:04 pm

. . . and me, Philip. It is so quick and simple.

Enigma
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Enigma » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:47 pm

Philip Hall wrote:I prefer Brian’s method of vee construction simply because it’s quicker and easier. It doesn’t bother me that it’s not ‘quite right’ because it’s almost impossible to tell that when it’s in place on the turnout!

Philip

I may well be joining you next time I have to build some points - which MAY be quite soon. I've been tempted in the past but now I know I won't be alone I can do it! :thumb

petermeyer
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Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby petermeyer » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:02 am

Hi Tony

This is leaping ahead I know but I note from the photo of the single slip build on your Brimsdown thread that the blades are made all as one piece both ends included! Is there any magical way in doing this to get them to line up including the bend please?

Cheers

Peter

Single_slip.jpg

Tony Wilkins
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby Tony Wilkins » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:58 pm

petermeyer wrote:Hi Tony

This is leaping ahead I know but I note from the photo of the single slip build on your Brimsdown thread that the blades are made all as one piece both ends included! Is there any magical way in doing this to get them to line up including the bend please?

Cheers

Peter

Single_slip.jpg


Hi Peter.
No, not really.
I will cover slips in some detail later, I have been having to deal with other matters recently.
I start with a length of rail several mm longer than the final length and produce the first switch blade. This is then held with the tip of the blade in the correct position to mark the centre of the bend. This needs to be done fairly carefully. The rail is then bent to the required angle and the rail checked against the template. It is possible to adjust the bend position if needed. It is still possible to hold the rail in the switch blade filing jig after bending. The trickiest part is to mark the other end, which still requires filing (planing). This needs to be right as once cut there is no going back. The second switch blade is then filed being careful not to either overdo it or bend it in the process. I have to confess to the occasional failure especially with steel rail where very thin blades can have a tendency to collapse without warning during filing. This leaves no option but to start again.
Regards
Tony.

petermeyer
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Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:06 am

Re: Turnout construction - Question here please.

Postby petermeyer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:10 pm

Tony Wilkins wrote:Hi Peter.
No, not really.
I will cover slips in some detail later, I have been having to deal with other matters recently.
I start with a length of rail several mm longer than the final length and produce the first switch blade. This is then held with the tip of the blade in the correct position to mark the centre of the bend. This needs to be done fairly carefully. The rail is then bent to the required angle and the rail checked against the template. It is possible to adjust the bend position if needed. It is still possible to hold the rail in the switch blade filing jig after bending. The trickiest part is to mark the other end, which still requires filing (planing). This needs to be right as once cut there is no going back. The second switch blade is then filed being careful not to either overdo it or bend it in the process. I have to confess to the occasional failure especially with steel rail where very thin blades can have a tendency to collapse without warning during filing. This leaves no option but to start again.
Regards
Tony.


Thanks Tony

I thought as much. I'll give it a try remaking mine and see how it goes using this method.

Regards

Peter


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