Eridge Mk2 update

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Rod Cameron
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Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Thu May 07, 2009 9:24 am

Other earlier topics relating to Eridge Mk2 are at

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=36
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=115
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=35

Updates on the layout itself will continue here.

As of last week, the ballasting and timbering of the plain track was complete, with tracklaying on Board 2 ongoing (Board 1 is done as far as track is concerned, and also all the droppers and bus wires beneath are connected).

P&C sections are being completed away from the layout for installation and ballasting later.

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:08 pm

Some pointwork now going in amongst the plain line
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And a couple of shots showing the board-end "track strengthening" process - PCB with brass bar onto which sleepers are threaded (if we remember :P ) and rail is soldered to. The sleepers are currently loose but will be bedded into the ballast and cosmetic half-chairs added in due course.
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John Bateson
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby John Bateson » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:25 am

Rod,
At the ends of the boards I have used cast chairs available from C&L or Exactoscale - see attached picture.
Solder paste is used on top of a sleeper wide strip of PCB - although I bed this into Araldite rather than screw it to the board.

I have temporarily fibre brused thes to make them a little clearer on what is a cruel camera.
John
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End boards.jpg
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Slaving away still on GCR stuff ...
Avoiding the soaps ...
http://www.greatcentralmodels.co.uk

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barrowroad
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby barrowroad » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:39 pm

Looking at your photos you look to have used 5mm? foam as an underlay with the paper trackplan place on top. What is the source of the foam underlay and what adhesive have you used to
a) fix the foam to the board surface and,
b) attach the track paln to the foam.

Regards,

Robin

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:03 pm

barrowroad wrote:Looking at your photos you look to have used 5mm? foam as an underlay with the paper trackplan place on top. What is the source of the foam underlay and what adhesive have you used to
a) fix the foam to the board surface and,
b) attach the track paln to the foam.


Hi Robin

The foam is 'Foamlay' from Exactoscale http://www.p4track.co.uk/

As far as I can recall it was glued to the board surface with PVA, as was the track plan to the underlay - although the latter could also have been done with spraymount provided you were in a very well ventilated room!
Rod

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barrowroad
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby barrowroad » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:24 pm

Hi Rod,

Thanks for the information. I have some Carrs 5mm foam from Brian Lewis's emporium to use on Barrow Road. I have just completed 6 of the 15 turnouts for the layout and am at the stage of deciding which material to use as a track base.
I now need to decide whether to use the foam, traditional cork or even foam/feather board. My current choice is likely to be the foam, but could you tell me how good the sound damping quality is as my current layout Sheep Pasture - which uses foamboard - gives rather noisy running in the house.

Regards,

Robin

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:07 pm

Robin

Can't really answer about sound-dampening as we haven't got as far as running trains seriously! We used it mainly for providing a reasonable basis for a ballast shoulder that was a more even and reliable surface than cork. It may well have some soundproofing properties, but Eridge is not a home layout so the benefits might never be noticed!

Here's another photo of when we first stuck it down and before trimming to fit the track layout.

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby hughesp87 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:41 pm

barrowroad wrote:Hi Rod,

Thanks for the information. I have some Carrs 5mm foam from Brian Lewis's emporium to use on Barrow Road. I have just completed 6 of the 15 turnouts for the layout and am at the stage of deciding which material to use as a track base.
I now need to decide whether to use the foam, traditional cork or even foam/feather board. My current choice is likely to be the foam, but could you tell me how good the sound damping quality is as my current layout Sheep Pasture - which uses foamboard - gives rather noisy running in the house.

Regards,

Robin


Hi Rob,

After numerous experiments with different forms of underlay, including cork, foamboard over thin expanded polystyrene (Middlepeak Wharf), camping mat (Middlepeak Top) and Anita Decor foam attached with their 'flexi-glue' (the latest P87 offering), I've reached the conclusion that it's actually the construction of the baseboards that is more important. We've both tended to use a lightweight box-type construction for our C&HP efforts and the effect is to create something akin to a sounding box, in which any noise from the train is inevitably magnified.

Having taken my locos to a friend's layout, where the baseboard construction is by the old-fashioned heavier 2x1 and chipboard method, the resulting noise is considerably less. The down side of course is the weight - there has to be a compromise somewhere!

I get the impression that the best solution might be to use a good grade of birch ply - at least 9mm for the sides and ends and maybe 12mm for the trackbed. I recall Ray Hammond using this for Thursford and the result was a very stable base that reduced the noise.

Does anyone else have any theories?

Regards,

Geraint (Hughes)
Geraint Hughes
Cromford & High Peak in P4
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Mike Garwood
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Mike Garwood » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:53 am

Hi

These layouts go on exhibitions....so just how much noise are they generating? More than a hall full of happy, chatty modellers...doubtful. Have the boards ever been thinly insulated (foam type insulation) from the underside, where it is practical to do so. Its' the resonance across the board you need to kill. On Belle Vue we had some noise issues, but decided the noise was insufficient to cause a problem in a room full of people. You can't hear a noisy gearbox and motor on show, so its doubtful that you'll hear the echoes of wheels.

Just a thought, that's all.

Mike

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Flymo748
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:20 pm

hughesp87 wrote:Geraint wrote:
After numerous experiments with different forms of underlay, including cork, foamboard over thin expanded polystyrene (Middlepeak Wharf), camping mat (Middlepeak Top) and Anita Decor foam attached with their 'flexi-glue' (the latest P87 offering), I've reached the conclusion that it's actually the construction of the baseboards that is more important....

I get the impression that the best solution might be to use a good grade of birch ply - at least 9mm for the sides and ends and maybe 12mm for the trackbed. I recall Ray Hammond using this for Thursford and the result was a very stable base that reduced the noise.

Does anyone else have any theories?


I entirely agree that it is the sounding box characteristic that is the problem. I suppose you could lay track across an acoustic guitar and see how loud an intentionally designed resonant system would be ;-)

Something that I will definitely be looking at when I get around to building boards will be using extruded polystyrene, as underpins Pempoul and explained at length in (IIRC) MRJ 156. The use of extruded polystyrene, within a thin timber frame to protect the edges, should be physically unable to be noisy as there will not be a structural mechanism to transmit the vibration, and to resonate from it.

As very much a second-best, but worth contemplating for a permanent home layout is the use of sound-deadening panels. I have these under my kitchen sink to reduce the noise from the waste disposal unit. They are a sort of sticky-backed, plastic-coated flexible lead flashing. Heavy, and absorbing of vibration. I expect that you can find it at Wickes, or a good builders' merchant.

HTH
Flymo
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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:46 pm

A bit more progress - one track almost complete end-to-end.

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:50 pm

Rod

Looks very impressive and full of fun...when do you expect the track work to be completed? The legs in the photos, are those going to support the scenic sections as well or are there more surprises in store...

regards

Mike

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:14 pm

Hi Mike

The legs will also be supporting lightweight scenic sections which will just plug in from the side in jigsaw fashion - probably based on foamboard or thin ply carcasses.
Rod

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:42 pm

Further progress from last week's meeting

Mark, Mike and Al not getting in each others' way whilst getting on with more tracklaying
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Chris managed to pre-chair all this rail before going on holiday (maybe that's why he needed to go on holiday? 8-) )
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A P4 modeller can never have too many track gauges :mrgreen:
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Tim V
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Tim V » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:38 pm

22 :?:
Tim V

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Flymo748
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Flymo748 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:42 am

Tim V wrote:22 :?:

Is that an estimate or a confession?

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Tim V » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:34 pm

I just counted the gauges in the picture, I don't have anywhere near as many as that!
Tim V

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:32 pm

Work and play this week when I managed to pay a visit to see how the team have been getting on. It was a full turnout, so it wasn't possible for everyone to work on the track. So we first had a look at Mike's lovely J class 4-6-2T





Then while work went on at the station end, Mark set up his DCC kit with a couple of sound-chipped diesels at the far end



Rod

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Brinkly » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:52 pm

The J class loco runs very nicely Rod.

Regards,

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:56 pm

Rod

It looks as though a real treat is being prepared...loved the diesel effects!

regards

Mike

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:55 am

Just a bit of fun, Mike - Eridge won't be DCC (not for now anyway) or a blue diesel layout except when we're mucking around!
Rod

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue May 04, 2010 4:46 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:Eridge won't be DCC (not for now anyway)


In this election week, let me rephrase that - Eridge will be DCC very soon, in fact as soon as the trackwork is wired to the busbars underneath and the power units connected. Mark's demo convinced us that it would be the way to go, and many of us will soon be getting hold of our own NCE Powercabs to play with.

We don't plan to do sound yet though (or will I have to rephrase that as well ...).

Meanwhile, most of the replacement trackwork is done, with just a few odds and ends for the PW engineers to deal with. We have even given a fitting trial to the platforms - some fettling will probably be needed because the old alignment was pre-Templot and is probably a little different. Nice to see them and the canopies back though, albeit somewhat plonked temporarily for the camera:

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And on top of all that, this rather cute H class turned up recently

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Rod

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Mike Garwood
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Mike Garwood » Tue May 04, 2010 6:04 pm

Rod

How big a fiddle yard is being built for this? And what is the fiddle yard being built from - design etc...?

cheers

Mike

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue May 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Mike Garwood wrote:How big a fiddle yard is being built for this? And what is the fiddle yard being built from - design etc...?


Mike

Eridge is double ended so there are two. The existing fiddle yards were built for Mk1 and are each six feet long and based on melamine coated chipboard that was spare after installation of fitted wardrobes at home 8-) . For Mk2 I think they need replacing with longer (and lighter) ones, certainly for exhibitions, maybe retaining shorter ones for the clubroom - where longer ones would not fit! I guess they would be made in similar fashion to the layout boards and using cassettes of some kind.
Rod

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Re: Eridge Mk2 update

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:21 pm

When we get to see the layout we will be looking out for a dog on the platform.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7322.shtml
Regards


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