Garden Shed

[DerryRoad]

Just built blockwork foundation yesterday for 10x6 garden shed that will become my modelling workshop when it arrives. I've already referred to it as the 'Dundalk Works' since I'll be scratch building Irish GNR wagons on 21mm test track. Challenging winter project!

[Serjt-Dave]

Just putting the finishing touches to the framework and decking for my shed. I've had to with 4x4 woodpiles set in concrete with a 3x2 frame and noggins {I love that word} and then covered in 1.5x6 decking boards as my garden is on a slope and to do that with hardcore and concrete would have blown my budget big time. The shed/workshop is 24x12 and I'm convinced it will been seen from space.

Dave

[DerryRoad]

Any concerns about moisture and mould? I've become a bit concerned today as a result of another posting I made. Here is the link.....

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=5535#p56034

[Terry Bendall]

Any concerns about moisture and mould? I've become a bit concerned today as a result of another posting I made

Over the last 45 years I have always used a garden shed as my work space with five different sheds in five different gardens and have never had any problems with dampness, mould or rust. The present building was a kit of parts, is 24 feet x 8 feet and rests on a base of paving slabs laid on sand which is much easier to do than concrete and is fine for a level or gently sloping site.

The shed has 16 mm thick shiplap boarding on the outside on a 50mm thick frame and is lined with 3.2mm thick hardboard with 50mm thick rock wool insulation to the walls and roof. No insulation on the floor. Heating is by a 2 kw electric radiator under the bench with an additional 1 kw heater if it is very cold, and when this happens I turn the heater on about 30 minutes before I start work. The heater is only on when I am working.

The ideal of course would be a nice big room in the house but I cannot afford that and the shed gives me a larger working space than I could ever have indoors. All the work, from baseboard building to painting is done in the same building – yes there is a dust issue but it can be controlled, and it means that everything can be left out ready for next time. Not everyone has a garden, or a garden that can take a shed – my first one was 8 foot x 6 foot, but they an be successful.

Terry Bendall

[Le Corbusier]

Any concerns about moisture and mould? I've become a bit concerned today as a result of another posting I made

Over the last 45 years I have always used a garden shed as my work space with five different sheds in five different gardens and have never had any problems with dampness, mould or rust. The present building was a kit of parts, is 24 feet x 8 feet and rests on a base of paving slabs laid on sand which is much easier to do than concrete and is fine for a level or gently sloping site.

The shed has 16 mm thick shiplap boarding on the outside on a 50mm thick frame and is lined with 3.2mm thick hardboard with 50mm thick rock wool insulation to the walls and roof. No insulation on the floor. Heating is by a 2 kw electric radiator under the bench with an additional 1 kw heater if it is very cold, and when this happens I turn the heater on about 30 minutes before I start work. The heater is only on when I am working.

The ideal of course would be a nice big room in the house but I cannot afford that and the shed gives me a larger working space than I could ever have indoors. All the work, from baseboard building to painting is done in the same building – yes there is a dust issue but it can be controlled, and it means that everything can be left out ready for next time. Not everyone has a garden, or a garden that can take a shed – my first one was 8 foot x 6 foot, but they an be successful.

Terry Bendall

Terry,

Glad all is fine ... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Individual usage patterns and location are key (coupled to how much ventilation/how leaky the building fabric is).

My point was that if starting from scratch it is easy and quick to install a vapour check for future peace of mind. After all the technology was developed for a reason. For every five buildings I have inspected that have been fine without any vapour check, I would say one has evidenced problems and some of these have been quite severe.

Regards

Tim

[John Bateson]

What is really needed is one or more of these, suitably altered to for "Dundalk Works". The one below is 140 mm by 84 mm and I did it on a sheet of three about 12" x 7". The cost from PPD just over the water from NI was about £50 which includes VAT and postage. If DerryRoad is interested and not too much time is involved for me drafting it is involved I can prepare a file for him to send to PPD.

303 Shed Plates.png

[Mark Tatlow]

Moisture will occur in one of three ways:

- a leak or penetrating/rising damp; these need to be fixed as they will be disastrous for shed or layout!

- moisture in the wood coming out; this is inevitable in year one; so I think you will find that the shed will be damp until it has had a good long summer to fully dry out. To try and overcome this, I put a greenhouse heater in there - something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sunhouse-SHTTH ... use+heater. I went for a thermostatic one, so that I leave it on permanently and allow the thermostat to turn it off when it is not required.

- condensation as a result of significant temperature gradients through t he walls of the shed. This can be solved with insulation, which you are likely to want for your own comfort anyway.



Mark

[Le Corbusier]

- condensation as a result of significant temperature gradients through t he walls of the shed. This can be solved with insulation, which you are likely to want for your own comfort anyway.



Mark

This is where the vapour check comes in! Warm air holds more moisture than cold. If you are warm in the shed and it is cold outside and you have 2 or 3 people for a reasonable period of time, if everything is shut up to keep the warmth in then the relative humidity will rise a fair bit above the external humidity levels. If you don't have a vapour check on the warm side of the insulation, then the warmer humid air passes through the insulation and as the air cools the moisture condenses into the insulation. If you have plenty of air movement on the outside of the insulation, and if it is in direct sunlight then you may well get away with it. If you are in a confined area with little air movement and little sunlight then the moisture will stay within the insulation for extended periods of time ... particularly after sunset. This is when you can have trouble with mould growth and rot within the fabric. If the timbers used are not pressure impregnated or you use a cheap board material like Stirling board rot and mould can spread quite alarmingly. Everything depends upon the specifics of the installation and the usage patterns - but for the sake of stapling some polythene across the studs over the top of the insulation before putting on the internal finish it seems strange not to do it.

[DerryRoad]

What is really needed is one or more of these, suitably altered to for "Dundalk Works". The one below is 140 mm by 84 mm and I did it on a sheet of three about 12" x 7". The cost from PPD just over the water from NI was about £50 which includes VAT and postage. If DerryRoad is interested and not too much time is involved for me drafting it is involved I can prepare a file for him to send to PPD.
303 Shed Plates.png

John, this is a very kind offering however I work in a college where they have invested £Thousands on the best laser and CNC machines available to the industry and since I am an autodesk trained autoCad user I can know out similar pattern. I am still so pleased you offered - it means that we are a thoughtful and caring community here at S4. Thanks

[Serjt-Dave]

Hi All, my shed/workshop/railway room is being delivered and erected at the end of the month. It comes supplied with a breathable membrane as Tim has mentioned. I'll be insulating and lining the wall and ceiling to keep the the environment more stable inside, to maximumise modelling time throughout the year. Also for when the wife chucks me out of the house.

Dave

[DerryRoad]

One last observation I wanted to tease out here.......

All sides of my shed, except one is free from surrounding garden/soil.
On the rear of the shed which is quite close to a long established tree, I was only able to create a barrier of 6" from the soil/garden edge.
What I down was raise the shed slightly above this ground on a 'build block on the flat' and rested the shed on a 16" dpc. I then turned the DPC up the back side of the shed. I have trimmed the soil back at a slope and was hoping that if I leave this area free, there is ample air movement to keep the ground as dry as possible. Is this adequate protection?

[Le Corbusier]

Difficult to visualise.

If you want to PM me a quick sketch, I am happy to give an opinion.

[Le Corbusier]

Hi All, my shed/workshop/railway room is being delivered and erected at the end of the month. It comes supplied with a breathable membrane as Tim has mentioned. I'll be insulating and lining the wall and ceiling to keep the the environment more stable inside, to maximumise modelling time throughout the year. Also for when the wife chucks me out of the house.

Dave

Dave,
Just for clarification ... a breathable membrane lets water vapour through but stops water penetration. As such it is positioned on the external face of the insulation behind the external cladding. It is there in case the cladding is breached to prevent water ingress but is breathable to allow any moisture within the insulation itself to escape.
A vapour check sits on the inside of the construction directly behind the internal finishes (plasterboard/stirling board etc). Its job is to prevent water vapour penetrating into the wall construction from the interior, so ensuring that the moisture content of the air within the fabric is the same as that outside ... thus you get no condensation occurring within the insulation.

[Paul Townsend]

Is it necessary to seal the joints in the vapour barrier, especially at wall to ceiling joint?
If so how should one do this?

[Le Corbusier]

Is it necessary to seal the joints in the vapour barrier, especially at wall to ceiling joint?
If so how should one do this?

Most vapour check systems come with a simple adhesive tape which you just run across the joints. Very important in areas such as kitchens and bathrooms, less so in rooms where the occupancy is likely to be relatively low and humidity levels less extreme. However its not a difficult operation.

A typical vapour check system would be

http://www.visqueenbuilding.co.uk/products/vapour-control-layers/vapour-check

[Serjt-Dave]

I now have my shed/layout room or as my wife calls it my new home. Now have to fit it out. First job is to get power to it and then insulated and line the walls and ceiling. The builders forgot to put a window in at the door end so they will have to come back and fit on site. I hope to move in before the end of the year.

[Philip Hall]

That looks just like the inside of my building before we got to work with fitting it out, apart from the windows and door which are domestic pvcU. You are fortunate in having a lower roof line which will be much easier to work with. Although temperatures are dropping, so far the insulation has meant I have not had the heating on yet, although admittedly I am not down there too much, still dismantling and moving the old workshop, which is in the loft room which means moving isn’t quick.

My wife’s view of the place seems to be the same as yours. I have to check every so often to see that the house keys look the same.

Philip

[junctionmad]

I hope to start my new "shed" in the spring , 4m x 10m , cavity wall block with a sloped single pitch roof

I always get a little worried "men prepare plans and god laughs

[Serjt-Dave]

It's finally finished {or just about anyway}, "Gower Towers" as the family calls it. I'll be moving railway and modeling kit up during the week. Will have to cut a hole in the side for the extractor fan for the spray booth before any painting can be done. My old home in the cellar is to be made into a laundry room for the misses. There was quite a bit of 9mm plywood left over to start the baseboards so happy days.

Finished 1.jpg

Finished 2.jpg

[Le Corbusier]

It's finally finished {or just about anyway}, "Gower Towers" as the family calls it. I'll be moving railway and modeling kit up during the week. Will have to cut a hole in the side for the extractor fan for the spray booth before any painting can be done. My old home in the cellar is to be made into a laundry room for the misses. There was quite a bit of 9mm plywood left over to start the baseboards so happy days.
Finished 1.jpgFinished 2.jpg

You have no idea how jealous I am .... fantastic

[Serjt-Dave]

Thanks Tim. I can't believe I got away with it. I thought I was going to be condemned to the attic. It's going to be nice getting back into proper modeling again once I move into the shed, just got to get the important things up there first, like the kettle etc.

[Serjt-Dave]

Not all things went as planned though!

Name 1.jpg

This will teach me to check the spelling next time. LOL.

[Philip Hall]

This looks great! A huge empty space just waiting for a railway. Let me tell you though, after baseboards and workbenches, it will very quickly look a lot smaller inside...

Philip

[Paul Townsend]

Not all things went as planned though!
Name 1.jpg
This will teach me to check the spelling next time. LOL.

Heigh-ho!

2 comments Dave:
Have you lumbered yourself with bienial treatment of the exterior? Colour of pic suggests the cladding may be cedar which means you don't HAVE to treat it unless you must keep the honey colour.

I advise sealing the plasterboard to floor gap. You probably don't want skirting but I recommend applying flexible decorators acrylic caulk to keep the spiders out.

[steve howe]

Great shed Dave!
What did you use for the interior lining?

Steve

ps.
Concur with the coment on sealing gaps - spiders get in everywhere! (as do cats)