Starting over again ...

Making room for a layout, where and how?
DougN
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby DougN » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:30 am

Dare I say that this is too close to my working day life. I have a church being converted into a childcare centre... the client chose not to get all drawings endorsed :evil: let alone the drawings not being complete :evil: has caused (and still causing!) all sorts of headaches. The one that really got me was to remove a sewer authority vent pipe. it has taken 8 months to get the paperwork accepted only to be told that due to the power authorities cross arm it will take 2 to 3 weeks to do the work, But we have a date.... I have 5 weeks to have the entire project finished some how! So I have to wait until the last moment to get the fences and the carpark finished!

I wonder why I enjoy dealing with my models so much... they are less frustrating than dealing with Authorities... I can actually get things done and it is all under my control.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Mark Tatlow » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:50 pm

John,

My summerhouse (aka modelling room) is a Dunster House and on the whole I am very pleased with.

One small note of caution though. The wood that they supply is fairly moist and may well get wet when it is assembled. It takes a whole season to dry out properly and if you put steel rails or other steel components within, there is enough moisture to lead to corrosion.

I put a greenhouse heater in after the first winter and this, combined with the natural drying of the wood means that this has not reoccured.
Mark Tatlow

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barrowroad
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby barrowroad » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:11 pm

Hi Mark,
Interesting thread. I have just bought and erected a 10m x 5m insulated log cabin from Dunster House to house Bristol Barrow Road.

Besides your comment about the moisture content in the wood I would be interested to know what treatment you applied to the wood. What wood preserver have you used to treat the wood? I am just about to get out the brushes...........................

Regards,

Robin

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John Bateson
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby John Bateson » Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:37 am

Hooray - the landscapers start next Tuesday, clearing old paths and shed bases and laying a concrete base for the new Dunster House Shed - which seems very similar in specification to that bought by Rod C. but without the veranda. The concrete base is needed because much of the new shed is over an old vegetable patch which after 30 years work was incredibly soft. Welsh Water have paid £40 for mismanaging the whole issue and the inheritance will cover the whole cost.
Even the insurance is now sorted.
Mains electic (Part P certified) will be supplied and I take due note of the warning from Mark T. about the first year and steel rails.
Once the shed is completed the landscaper will return and lay patio areas etc. and we can get our garden back, but without the need for the labour.
It is only about 60% (at 4m x 3m) of the origonal planned size - but we can live with that.
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John Bateson
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby John Bateson » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:30 pm

It has occurred to us that a viable workbench can be made from kitchen units with a good worktop.
The only issue is that the top of the worktop must be no higher than a normal office desk, about 31" while kitchen units are normally higher by about 6"
Does anybody on this forum know a source of reduced height kitchen units that are not exhorbitantly expensive?
John
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PeteT
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby PeteT » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:00 pm

Most kitchen units sit on a plinth - would removing this bring it low enough, or had you already subtracted that in your maths?

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John Bateson
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby John Bateson » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:26 pm

I would prefer an adjustable plinth such as the set of stands usually supplied, but the standard units could sit on the floor directly if there was no alternative. It just means there would be a lot more difficult adjustment to keep it exactly level.
John
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Winander
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Winander » Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:24 pm

John Bateson wrote:I would prefer an adjustable plinth such as the set of stands usually supplied, but the standard units could sit on the floor directly if there was no alternative. It just means there would be a lot more difficult adjustment to keep it exactly level.
John


I've seen lower units for the disabled. Howden's do them, they are 820mm high (a little over 32in). https://www.howdens.com/kitchen-collect ... -kitchens/
You may be able to find others.

regards
Richard Hodgson

Terry Bendall
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:43 am

John Bateson wrote:It has occurred to us that a viable workbench can be made from kitchen units with a good worktop


Yes it could John but remember to leave a knee space. If you use a tallish stool, probably with a back, the height problem should be solved.

John Bateson wrote:I would prefer an adjustable plinth such as the set of stands usually supplied


Most commercial underbench kitchen units have feet with some height adjustment for uneven floors. Probably not enough to solve the height problem for a bench at sitting height. The plinth is actually a flat piece of wood which clips over the feet. You could of course make your own plinth.

Terry Bendall

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steve howe
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby steve howe » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:02 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
John Bateson wrote:It has occurred to us that a viable workbench can be made from kitchen units with a good worktop


Hi John,
I have been seduced by the kitchen worktop as a modelling bench before, and when I worked in a commercial design practice we fitted out all our work stations using kitchen work top at desk height which ergonomically turned out to be a big error.. The problem I have found is that, while admirably suited for standing at and doing kitchen work, the 6oomm wide surface is just not quite deep enough for a comfortable work/desk area. Most office desks are 750 - 800 wide (front to back) and that extra 150 - 200 mm makes all the difference. You can get worktop in 800mm widths so possibly an offcut could be had from a kitchen fitter if you did'nt want to lash out on the full 3 metre length?

Steve

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:02 am

I have a workbench top made from a kitchen worktop, I don't find any problem with the 600mm depth, pretty much all of the work takes place on the front 300mm and the back 300mm stores all the bits and pieces, another 200mm on the depth would not help me at all. Mine is 800mm high which leaves enough room for a tool drawer between my knees and the under surface and has proved comfortable to work at seated.
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Keith
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DougN
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby DougN » Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:52 pm

I for one ended up loathing a 600 deep work top when dealing with A1 and B1 sized plans... now sitting here the desk is 800 deep which works quite nicely. My modeling desk which has been made as a tray I find a bit wide at 600.... as it ends up being a dumping zone for frustrated kits.... get to a difficult part and then start another until time/ frustration has worked through. Not a good way to get the projects finished though.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

mickeym
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby mickeym » Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:11 pm

In my (about to be) former shed I had a "workbench" at 52" high for standing at and a proper office desk at whatever height a desk is; between those and an A0 drawing board I found I could do most tasks.
The high level bench was 2 feet deep which I found to be ample, and with the desk I actually cut 6 inches off the back in order to be able to reach things whilst sitting down!

Terry Bendall
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:11 am

My bench, most of which can be seen on page 4 of Scalefour News 187, is made from a piece of 18mm think MDF cut lengthways and is in a L shape. The main working part is 660mm wide and the smaller part to the right is 560mm wide. The height is 780 which for me is a comfortable height when sitting. This is the second location where I have had and L shaped bench and it certainly suits my ways of working.

Terry Bendall

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Townsend » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:09 am

Highbridge is seeking a new home, together with the embryo Dartmouth.
No, no, NOT a new owner.
After 35 years in its Victorian basement, it is time to downsize all the stuff above so a new home for Highbridge is being sought by Estate Agents within a few miles of its current and only abode.
The middle aged kids are finally clearing their stuff and we are now living under Agents rules....de-cluttering is hard work !

Options to house Highbridge seem to be in my order of preference:
1. Room in habitable part of house. I have been privileged in having this luxury but it is less likely in a smaller home.
2. Top quality "Garden Office" seems a popular choice and great if discretely done so as not to ruin a garden, or freakout the neighbours. Wet weather access may be a nuisance as permitted development rules require separation from the house.
3. Garage or outbuilding conversion to clean, dry and warm.
4. Loft conversion.

When contracts get exchanged the plan is to dismantle Highbridge slowly and make baseboard end protectors for each so boards can stand on end. They were designed to be transportable (partly as if for exhibition) and none are larger than 4' x 2' so dowels align and bolts secure the joints with electrics through Dee-sub and Varicon connectors. ( Although DCC now the old dc wiring often had 100 wires between boards, all of which are still required. When boards are all ready I have a son-in-law with chum and van and my army of potential helpers drawn from chums in model railway circles around here. Boards will go to safe and secure storage unit for a period until the rest of the domestic move is done and new railway room is ready. There are no top protectors for baseboards, and I don't want to make any, so "professional removers" will not be allowed anywhere near it.

The old underpinnings will mostly be ditched as they are a mix of light timber frames and huge beams rescued from the dry rot era when they had to be replaced in parts of this Victorian pile. (Naughty bits sawn off and burnt long ago) These are supported on wall brackets.
New underpinnings will be designed for convenience rather than the old low cost arrangements.

While Sylvia and I have moved 6 times we are out of practice ( half our lives in this place !!) and I have never shifted a railway model before ( except helping friends with those fully-designed-for-exhibition layouts) so any hints or advice will be very welcome.

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Paul Willis
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Willis » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:02 pm

Paul Townsend wrote:While Sylvia and I have moved 6 times we are out of practice ( half our lives in this place !!) and I have never shifted a railway model before ( except helping friends with those fully-designed-for-exhibition layouts) so any hints or advice will be very welcome.


I have never shifted a layout (other than a small demo board from one end of the study to the other) that I have built, so I'm afraid that I can add no practical advice.

However I would encourage you to take copious notes and plenty of digital photos. This sounds like a fascinating subject for a feature article in Scalefour News. I'm sure that EditorJames would welcome your experiences and reflections when you come to do it!

Cheers
Flymo
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Philip Hall
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:44 pm

I wish you well in this Paul, and it made me realise that my new layout (in a substantial garden building) should really be made in sections against the day when it might have to be moved. Although Heather is quite clear that this is where we are to stay (20 years so far) so it is merely a precaution!

The biggest benefit that I can see is that instead of a low roofed room in the loft with sloping walls where I could just squeeze in 16 ft x 11ft, there is to be an internal space in the new building 21ft 6ins x 19ft 6ins. My builder has advised a heavy duty garden studio, with 90 to 100mm insulation for walls, roof and floor, lined with ply and painted. A reinforced floor will be covered with carpet tiles and with adequate heating should be as snug as the house. This is cheaper than a log cabin where both inner and outer walls are very nice looking, but not really necessary if you just want a nice white walled room. Another improvement is to be the use of domestic PVCu windows and doors, which are not that much more expensive than the wooden ones often supplied with such buildings. And no painting or varnishing, apart from preservative on the outside every few years. The only drawback is that it will be at the bottom of the garden, but you can't have everything. Umbrellas and waterproof boots at each end, I think!

My only experience of packing up a layout was when my old Taw Vale went with Tony Sissons to the USA. We simply packed it up as if for an exhibition and took it to a firm of professional shippers who crated it all up ready for air freight, and it arrived a few days later in good order.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Philip
Last edited by Philip Hall on Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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John Bateson
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby John Bateson » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Paul,
We are slowly getting there with the new 'hobby room' which is quite a bit smaller than we had wished. Second coat of varnish needed and the guttering is still in the garage.
We now have two main issues
a) moving the railway is no longer an issue, it won't fit in the 4m x 3 m building.
b) doing something to the inside to replace the roundy-roundy (which to be honest was never finished). It will probably be an 'L' shape only. The electrics have now been completed and there are plenty of access points and lights.

One thing that will change, readers may remember that I used to refer to 'the Lady Downstairs' when my office, workshop, hobby room was upstairs. She will now be known as 'the Lady in The Big House'.

Best of luck with the move and the only thing I would suggest is that you make your new accomodation as big as possible - it will never really be big enough.
Hobby Room.jpg
The new hobby room - rather small than originally planned courtesy of Welsh Water
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barrowroad
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby barrowroad » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:45 pm

Hi Paul,

Having moved from Bristol to Tewkesbury last December I have some experience in moving a layout or in fact two, namely Sheep Pasture my new layout Bristol Barrow Road.
I made a decision not to allow the removers to move any of my railway items. All stock was carefully packed away in a large quantity of really useful boxes - they are btw - and travelled in my car to short term storage at another S4 member who lives nearby. Both layouts were dismantled, Barrow Road onto it's 'bread trolley' transporters, and were picked up and transported by van. Thanks to Morgan and Tony fellow members of the Glevum Group. All are now housed in my new Dunster House Shed and I am now back modelling after a break of nearly 12 months. Hard work yes - stressful yes - worth it yes!
To summarise - pack everything securely and if possible try to move it all yourself preferably with the aid of some good friends.

Good luck with your move and feel free to ask me any questions.

Robin

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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:59 am

Having lived in 5 different houses in the last 43 years my workshop/railway modelling space has always been a wooden building in the garden. The latest one measures 24 feet x 8 feet. Not as high quality as those that John and Philip have described but reasonable with 50mm insulation in the walls. This has proved to be perfectly usable even in the winter and if it is very cold I turn the heater on about 15 minutes before I want to start work. All I have is a small electric radiator under the modelling bench to keep feet and legs warm and another small 1Kw heater if it is very cold.

The last two buildings have come as a kit of parts and go up in a day after the base has been put down. The base is 50 mm thick paving slabs laid on sand. Perfectly adequate and a much easier job than laying a concrete base. What you can achieve depends on the available space and any planning restrictions but in my case I can get a much larger space by having something in the garden than I could in the house.

As Robin has mentioned, prior to the last house move the layouts were stored with a friend and since they were designed to go to exhibitions there were no problems with that part of the move.

Paul Townsend wrote: They were designed to be transportable


This is always a good idea. Even if you have no plans to move, circumstances do change and if the last great project is firmly built into the space, if a move is necessary things can be taken out without destroying many years of work. I was recently asked to advise on the possibility of moving a layout after the builder had died and it was built into a room. It would not have been possible to do so without wrecking most of it.

Terry Bendall

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:29 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
However I would encourage you to take copious notes and plenty of digital photos. This sounds like a fascinating subject for a feature article in Scalefour News. I'm sure that EditorJames would welcome your experiences and reflections when you come to do it!

Cheers
Flymo

Good idea, I am happy to do that. The photo record will help me to remember which baseboard goes where at re-construction time ;)
Just in case the identification (of felt tip letters on ends and sides) becomes illegible!

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:32 pm

Philip Hall wrote:
My only experience of packing up a layout was when my old Taw Vale went with Tony Sissons to the USA. We simply packed it up as if for an exhibition and took it to a firm of professional shippers who crated it all up ready for air freight, and it arrived a few days later in good order.

Philip

Can you remember rough cost and how long ago this was?

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Townsend » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:37 pm

barrowroad wrote:Hi Paul, Robin


Your tried and proven formula sounds pretty similar to my plan; good to know it works!

barrowroad wrote:Good luck with your move and feel free to ask me any questions.

Robin


Ta;
I & BS4 group would love to visit your super shed soon.
Is that possible?

Philip Hall
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:11 pm

Paul,

I haven't any idea of the cost I'm afraid, Tony arranged all of that and it might have been a company he had used for shipping to the U.S. to do with his business at the time. I think they were in Mitcham or somewhere like it in South London. It was over twenty years ago now, certainly a year or two before Heather and I got married and that was in 1995. I could make some enquiries of Tony if it would help, but at this distance in time...

This was of course to North Carolina. You're not moving to the U.S. are you?!

Philip

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Paul Townsend
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Re: Starting over again ...

Postby Paul Townsend » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:30 am

Philip Hall wrote:Paul,

I haven't any idea of the cost I'm afraid, Tony arranged all of that and it might have been a company he had used for shipping to the U.S. to do with his business at the time. I think they were in Mitcham or somewhere like it in South London. It was over twenty years ago now, certainly a year or two before Heather and I got married and that was in 1995. I could make some enquiries of Tony if it would help, but at this distance in time...

This was of course to North Carolina. You're not moving to the U.S. are you?!

Philip

Ok, thanks but don't pursue Tony. At that range it is pretty irrelevant.
The enquiry was triggered by the thought of paying to have the layout crated professionally for local storage.
I may investigate further myself, but I feel an army of friends is a better bet.... a barrel and takeaway curry laid on usually helps!


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