Scalefour Forum

With the sale of C&L by Pete Llewellyn to Phil Reid, it was assumed that the Exactoscale product range would similarly move and continue to be part of the C&L ‘offer’.

As owner of all tooling for Exactoscale products and owner of existing stocks, I also made this assumption and hoped that the product range would thrive under Phil. As the months have passed I have, however, become increasingly uneasy about the business model adopted by Phil in which he plans to do almost everything himself for the entire combined product range. It has become clear to me that there is simply no way this setup can give the relatively more specialised Exactoscale products the attention they need.

I have therefore decided to make changes. The end position at this stage is not completely clear but as an initial step the Exactoscale carriage and wagon wheels and associated components (axles, bearings, etc.) will cease to be under C&L. As soon as possible, new and effective arrangements for the supply of wheels will be put in place and I hope it will be possible to reintroduce the Exactoscale loco wheel range as part of the same process.

Exactoscale track kits and components remain with C&L.

When the position is clearer, I will make further announcements here.

Andrew Jukes
Member no. 1054

Many thanks for this Andrew.

With the best will in the world, it has been clear that Phil has been finding things difficult, and I am sure I am not alone in seeing this as a good move which will help both product ranges to succeed.

The Exactscale components are pretty key to P4 modelling and I for one would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your personal investment and support over the years and going forward, and to wish you every success in this next phase.

Best wishes,

Good to hear that actions are underway to re-introduce the Exactoscale carriage and wagon wheels and associated components. If with time the loco wheels also return to production that would be excellent.

Is there any news regarding the Exactoscale sprung chassis/underframes?

I hope this goes forward.

Exactoscale wagon wheels and axles (pinpoint) are my favourite of all P4 wagon wheels tried thus far. I'm sure others have their favourites too.

Andrew - It is with some relief that I read your announcement that you are to reintroduce the Exactoscale range of products.

Some of us here in West Yorkshire have been bemoaning the loss of the rolling stock wheels and axles. We hope that it will be possible for you to reintroduce the three link and screw couplings as they are the best / most realistic couplings regardless of price.

Good news indeed.

GTi

Glad to hear that Exactoscale wagon and coach wheels will once again be available Andrew!

There are several P4 conversions including the Hornby 2BIL/HAL and Brighton Belle-type power bogies, which are much easier using Exactoscale 14 mm dia. coach wheels. The scale-width tyres just fit without too much filing. Another useful and associated Exactoscale product was/is the 4CW 503A '1 mm Parallel Axles with 2 mm Sleeves' pack, which was used very effectively the on Hornby power bogie conversions.

All the best,

Colin

That's good news the range may return. I'm a little surprised that you can simply take a part of the business back so easily.

Interesting.

Andrew

Has any thought been given as to how the assembly instructions will be available when the transition happens? To the best of my knowledge they are currently only available as downloads from the C+L website under the Knowledge Centre.

Roy

I thought an update on my announcement of 5th May would be helpful.

Initially, priority is being given to making carriage and wagon wheels available. The stock position is such that some turned components needed to be ordered and delivered before we can get moulding of wheels underway. Stock levels of related items such as axles and bearings have still to be assessed. Lead times are not certain but new wheels are unlikely to be available before the end of July. Input costs (turnings, moulding) may be higher than before but I will aim to strip out a fair amount of margin to achieve a reasonable retail price.

I regard the wheels with axles, bearings and back-to-back gauges as forming one product group, overseen by one person. In the short term, there is someone who will fill this role but someone else may need to be involved, particularly if the driving wheel range is to be re-launched.

Exactoscale track and turnout kits will also be taken away from C&L and will form a separate product group, also overseen by one person.Timescales here are likely to be long as there is a large volume of stock to be disentangled, sorted and organised. Some components may need to be ordered, with the lead time that implies. I am pressing for priority to be given to the sorting out even if that means more products being unavailable in the short term.

A third group of products consists of items that have been dropped from the Exactoscale range at various stages along the way. There is stock of some of these items which has come back to me me, but not in a well-organised state. Sorting this stock out properly and deciding what is worth offering for sale and what may be worth re-stocking is currently a lower priority. I am going to need help in this process, and need to give more thought as to how products in this group can best be made available to modellers.

Andrew Jukes
Member no. 1054

When you say "Exactoscale track and turnout kits" does that mean just the complete moulded track bases or does it mean the individual chair mouldings?

regards

Alan

Alan
I meant the complete range.
Andrew

Hi Andrew - I am happy to hear the track components will be available again through you. Excellent news. Please keep us posted.

I am happy to see two supplies of track components rather then one , great news

junctionmad wrote:I am happy to see two supplies of track components rather then one , great news

Assuming, of course, that C&L remains viable after they lose the Exactoscale range. I feel a bit sorry for Phil.

DT

David Thorpe wrote:

junctionmad wrote:I am happy to see two supplies of track components rather then one , great news

Assuming, of course, that C&L remains viable after they lose the Exactoscale range. I feel a bit sorry for Phil.

DT

Sure the C&L track components are getting very " tired " and need new moulds

Frankly , Im not surprised an intervention occurred, I have expressed by views on Phils approach to business and I feel no need to air them again .

Great news, look forward to buying track components from Exactoscale rather than C&L in the future. Just out of interest, does this apply to both the 4mm and 7mm components in the Exactoscale range?

David Thorpe wrote:Assuming, of course, that C&L remains viable after they lose the Exactoscale range. I feel a bit sorry for Phil.

DT

Do people think that this puts C & L at risk?

Le Corbusier wrote:Do people think that this puts C & L at risk?

C&L was apparently viable and profitable under Brian Lewis, before there was any involvement with Exactoscale. So there is no obvious reason why it couldn't be again. There is still the entire copper-clad trackbuilding market, and 00/EM. The arrival of Peco 00 bullhead may dent some of that, or work the other way in creating a growing interest in proper trackwork from the mass Peco 00 market.

One thing I would advise Phil -- collect up the entire stock of the DOGA-Fine 00 track gauges and chuck them in the bin. The failure of 00 turnouts built with them to run RTR models out of the box must have turned countless potential customers away from trackbuilding. Why Brian ever adopted that standard for the 00 turnout kits is an utter mystery.

Martin.

Of course Brian didn't do that many shows and did prioritise Mail Order.

I may have been asked to do all sorts of scales and gauges but never DOGA fine. Says it all really.

Le Corbusier wrote:

David Thorpe wrote:Assuming, of course, that C&L remains viable after they lose the Exactoscale range. I feel a bit sorry for Phil.DT

Do people think that this puts C & L at risk?

I'd have thought that there must be some risk of that. C&L currently advertise themselves as "The Model Railway Track Building Specialists" and certainly in the past when I've ordered from them it's primarily been for track components. Whether in P4, EM or 00, or indeed 7mm, most of their trackbuilding components appear to be Exactoscale products. Certainly C&L also produce some products themselves, but their own range of chairs is nowhere near as wide as Exactoscale's and one could not build an accurate set of points using C&L components alone (you can using Exactoscale). They've also lost Peco. With Exactoscale appearing as a rival and with a much wider range of, dare I say it, better known track building products, I would have thought that C&L's potential income as a commercial enterprise will be greatly reduced. Having said that I'd be interested to know how Andrew Jukes intends to proceed as I wouldn't have thought that Exactoscale could stand on its own as a properly commercial business, but of course I may well be completely wrong.

DT

Removing the wheels range from C&L won't weaken the business as Phil never sold any of those. That move is all positive and very welcome.

If the Exactoscale track-parts are not to be sold through C&L, then could they be sold through the society stores: ours and at the EMGS?

EMGS Stores already and have for some time sold most of both ranges, though stock appears to be somewhat depleted at the moment. Perhaps they will re-stock shortly as it is ExpoEM this weekend and C&L are also there?

I cannot envisage any risk to C&L whatsoever. It may be a sad fact but most of his customers will be for 00 whether we like it or not. P4 customers are likely to form only a very small portion of his customers.

Please remember that Exactoscale was up for sale prior to the arrangement with C&L, no takers apparently, you can draw your own conclusions as to which is most viable.

I would think it will help Phil in not having to keep a stock of slow moving stock and concentrate on the core business. I just wish he'd stop going to too many shows and spend some much needed time on Mail Order, which should be more profitable.

This statement - "Exactoscale was up for sale prior to the arrangement with C&L" - is nonsense. Exactoscale has never been up for sale. Why, in ignorance, write something so categoric?
The tooling and stock have, since Exactoscale Ltd was wound up, been owned by me.
Andrew Jukes