Morgan Design TOU System

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Knuckles
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Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Knuckles » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:03 am

Hello all.

Is there any more photographs on the Morgan Design TOU system found in the S4 stores?

There are two products with a lot of text and only one of those has an exploded diagram as instructions.

Problem is I haven't a clue what the end product is supposed to look like, neither do I know if it is what I need.

Same goes for basically everything else in the range, What do they look like when built, is it/they the product/s I am after and how the hell do you build them.

I'm sure in the long run we would all do better if things were written bone easy for doughnuts like me who know bugger all about certain things!

I'm after a right angle crank. I saw one but have to guess its construction. Further to that my goal is to get one of my turnouts operating from the side because out of the 4 TOUs on my layout the one I had to do different is the best throwing one - I basically scratch built an angle crank badly and it works wonderfully.

Seeing as a different TOU has been awkward throwing properly and seeing as I currently dislike the dropper in tube method I want to have a go at the angle crank again, only this time buy one that is more correct.

Any ideas and help would be most welcome. :)
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

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Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
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steamraiser
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby steamraiser » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:12 pm

Pictures will always sell better than words.

I suggest stores should not stock any products unless pictures are provided?

Gordon A

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Steve Carter
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Steve Carter » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:25 pm

Have a look here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1633&p=12498&hilit=Morgan+TOU#p12498
Hopefully the photos will help?
Cheers
Steve
Steve Carter

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jon price
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby jon price » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:21 pm

These look very nice, but I wonder about the tufnol. I have a block which I bought with the intention of making spacers for split frames but I find is impossible to cut accurately without access to a milling machine. It does seem darker than the photos you point to. Are there different grades of tufnol? Are they easier to cut accurately?

Alan Turner
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Alan Turner » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:41 pm

jon price wrote:These look very nice, but I wonder about the tufnol. I have a block which I bought with the intention of making spacers for split frames but I find is impossible to cut accurately without access to a milling machine. It does seem darker than the photos you point to. Are there different grades of tufnol? Are they easier to cut accurately?


There are many different grades of Tufnol: paper based, cloth based and various machine-able grades.

regards

Alan

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jon price
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby jon price » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:04 pm

Thanks for that info. I didn't know about Tufnol. So does anyone know if the intructions for the TOU indicate which grade of Tufnol to use?

Alan Turner
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Alan Turner » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:52 pm

jon price wrote:Thanks for that info. I didn't know about Tufnol. So does anyone know if the intructions for the TOU indicate which grade of Tufnol to use?


The Tufnol in the photograph is cloth based. If yours is darker I would guess it's a paper based version.

Regards

Alan

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Steve Carter
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Steve Carter » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:37 pm

jon price wrote:Thanks for that info. I didn't know about Tufnol. So does anyone know if the intructions for the TOU indicate which grade of Tufnol to use?


Jon
When I brought some from the Society stores they were supplied with a length of Tufnol.
Steve
Steve Carter

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jon price
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby jon price » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:52 pm

I'm beginning to think these are what I want (especially if they come with Tufnol. the list says GWR B and C turnout TOU. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't work for an A turnout. Can any body tell me I'm wrong on this?

David Knight
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby David Knight » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:34 pm

As a possible alternative some might wish to consider this idea. Back in 2002 there was a good article by Dave Booth in MRJ 139 on home built TOUs using plastic section and brass tubes & wire. There were some issues in the article with the size of materials but nothing too hard to sort. I've used this design for some time now with no complaints. Some pics follow.
working bits.jpg

The basic bits of the TOU. "L" shaped wire about 1/16" in diameter extends from the TOU to the track.
TOU in place.jpg

Mine is operated by wire in tube but they can also be modified for powered operation.
top view.jpg

The view from above. This was done as one of my first P4 turnouts and has many technical flaws, but it works.

Cheers,

David

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Steve Carter
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Steve Carter » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:53 am

jon price wrote:I'm beginning to think these are what I want (especially if they come with Tufnol. the list says GWR B and C turnout TOU. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't work for an A turnout. Can any body tell me I'm wrong on this?


Hi Jon

There are instructions and details in the Downloads section of our website. Go to http://www.scalefour.org/resources/downloads go down to the section headed Morgan Design and download the zip file for GWR leads (turnouts) and operating system (ZIP). Includes GWR permanent way notes. Updated June 2014.

Hope it helps?

Steve
Steve Carter

Knuckles
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Knuckles » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:20 am

I guess the angle crank in question isn't the type I am after then.

I'm after literally a scale one that I can make to work, rather than a complete under board unit to install.

Ok, thanks for the help.

Think the Brassmasters might be the ones I need.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
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David Thorpe
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:26 pm

David Knight wrote:As a possible alternative some might wish to consider this idea. Back in 2002 there was a good article by Dave Booth in MRJ 139 on home built TOUs using plastic section and brass tubes & wire. There were some issues in the article with the size of materials but nothing too hard to sort. I've used this design for some time now with no complaint.................

Our own Paul Willis described something very similar some time ago - viewtopic.php?f=90&t=425&p=13048&hilit=turnout+operating+units+1+of+4#p13048

DT

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Weskie
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Weskie » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:49 pm

Micheal Clarke (Masokits) does a functional operating crank. It has a D shaped pivot hole to run a tube through the baseboard and operate from underneath.
Listed in his catalogue as 11.07.
I'll see if i can take a picture of one in situ later for you.
Andy Westcott

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stephenfreeman
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby stephenfreeman » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:45 am

pp067a01ea.jpg
Many years ago I did something along similar lines. I later refined it on an O gauge layout where the crank was soldered to a spigot on a substantial turned brass rod (a one piece turning in brass comprising the spigot and had a shoulder on it to prevent it falling down through the tube), running in a piece of tube to underneath the baseboard where a Fulgurex point motor provided the means of switching.

The tiebars themselves were C&L.

Sorry if it's not too clear but I seem to have done a good job of hiding the business part.

The O gauge is no more but the P4 (see photo above ) is. If you're not in a rush I'll see if I can do some more photos but it won't be before Spring as the layout is still in storage and I can't get to it before then.
Stephen Freeman
Bespoke Finescale Trackwork and Semaphore Signals 7mm to 4mm scales
https://www.tracknsignals.co.uk

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CDGFife
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby CDGFife » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:25 am

Knuckles you could also try AMBIS.

http://www.ambisengineering.co.uk/

Alan does a range of cranks to 4mm scale that can definitely be made to work. My tandom on Cadhay is operated this way and I definitely agree that the side action gives good operation. I use a servo under the baseboard driving the "axle" that goes through the baseboard and turns the crank.

Chris

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:36 am

And if you use the AMBIS "PALM" unit to drive the crank you don't need to worry about the servo overstressing the linkage.


Sorry the adjustment is a bit off on one side, only seen after the video was done
Regards

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:57 pm

Mike Clarkes Masokits etched tiebars have small lugs that take a drive rod. The attached photo shows the Masokits tie bar and what I believe is an Ambis one in use together.

stretcher bar 2.jpg


My apologies to the copyright holder of the photo, it's one I downloaded for guidance some years ago.

On the new part of London Road I used the Masokits tiebar with a loop formed in the centre of the drive bar to take the end of a Cobalt or Tortoise drive rod passing up through the baseboard. This is, i believe, the same approach used by Mike Norris on his P4 model of Preston.

The Masokits tiebar is fairly "stiff" but I haven't encountered any problems with the soldered joints at the rail. The Ambis tiebar (stretcher) I used is more flexible and I think complements the Masokits one to give a more prototypical appearance. However, I am not sure what Mark of Ambis stretcher this is. I used the Mk3, as I couldn't fathom how to fold the Mk4 version.

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stephenfreeman
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby stephenfreeman » Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:08 pm

Hi, Well I have used both the early and latest Ambis versions in 7mm scale (I do have some 4mm ones to use as well soon) and I would think that though the early ones were easier to fold up the end result will not be as strong as the latest versions.

They do take some figuring out how to bend them up. I've done quite a few in 7mm scale and I'm still not sure I've done them right. However they look fine and do the job. I just think the instructions/illustrations could be clearer.

I've also worked my way through several frets of Masokits stretcher bars and whilst they are easy enough to do etc, I'm not so sure about their appearance being very prototypical when compared to the Ambis ones.
Stephen Freeman
Bespoke Finescale Trackwork and Semaphore Signals 7mm to 4mm scales
https://www.tracknsignals.co.uk

Knuckles
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Knuckles » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:42 pm

Many thanks guys. This is the kind of stuff I'm after. :)

Will mull over it a bit longer then try one of them.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320

Enigma
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Re: Morgan Design TOU System

Postby Enigma » Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:07 pm

Here are some TOU's that I've built for my 'Drybrook Road' layout using brass channel, brass strip, brass tube and perspex. Dropper wires will be soldered to the blades and fit into the tubes, protruding below to provide a method of switching the 'V' polarity. I made quite a few similar ones 40 years ago for the 00 gauge 'Ceriog Valley' layout and they are still going strong on the EM 'Hungerford' layout. However, in those days I used the aluminium curtain track as seen in the unit on the top right (but with a slot milled out for the brass tubes). This seems to be unavailable these days (I found a very short length in a scrap box, just enough to make 4 short units) so I soldered up the units as shown. The smaller 'curtain track' single ended units are for trap points. I intend to use servos driven by a MegaPoints system for operation but still not sure where to situate the drive point. Could be in the centre or at an end. It may depend on where I can attach the servos!

TOU.3.A.jpg
TOU.3.A.jpg (104.28 KiB) Viewed 4774 times


Bottom right is a rough cardboard 'jig' I made for assembly. Attachment to the baseboard will be by servo screws. I reckon 2 per unit will be more than adequate.


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