What dictates the order of levers in a frame?

[Winander]

Having been rudely catapulted from the benign signal-free 19th century into the 20th, I am forced to ask the above, for I have no clue. I have one starter, a clutter of ground signals and six turnouts. I don't have a formal signalling diagram because it is not a prototype trackplan.

[bécasse]

A typical layout would place the distant signal levers at either end of the frame adjacent to the stop signal levers for the same direction in order, with point, fpl and ground signal levers (plus a few spares) grouped in a logical order in the middle of the frame. Generally, the lever order would avoid the need to pull a lever between two others which have already been pulled and would also take economy of interlocking arrangements into consideration. If there was a level crossing, the levers required for that might well be placed at that end of the frame outside the distant signal levers.

Factors which have to be taken into account are the track layout (obviously!), the original (probably pre-group) railway company, the signalling contractor (if used), the original date of installation and the date portrayed by the model. Looking at a few prototype layouts of the company concerned can be helpful if you know what you are looking at - John Hinson's signalbox.org https://signalbox.org/track-layouts/ website has quite a number of diagrams grouped by owning company although, almost inevitably, you will rarely find something which is actually a close match to what you are modelling.

[petermeyer]

If we’re thinking of using the Society leverframe here, the switches for that are single throw. If using Tortoise motors the convention is to switch them with doublethrow. There is an alternative wiring setup in the instructions that converts to single polarity. I’ve wired my control panel thus in anticipation of using the leverframe they I am yet to build.

Luckily I have a signal diagram that numbers all the levers, signals and points and are in accordance to the previous description. But a bit like chicken and egg, I don’t know what gets numbered first; the signals or the levers? There’s probably a convention such as the Up line being numbered first…

[Neil Smith]

Usual convention is that it depends on where the box is located. So trains coming from left to right as the signaller (modern parlance) sees it are controlled by signals at the left hand end of the frame, and those going right to left by signals at the right hand end.
So the distant for the left to right trains is lever number 1*, and the distant for the reverse move is the highest numbered lever in the frame**

* Unless there is a level crossing release lever for gates at that end of the box.

** Obviously at a terminus there won't be a distant from the buffer stop end, and practice varied with era and company regarding whether the distant approaching a terminus was fixed at caution or operational.
If no operational distant(s), then replace with the (outer) home signals.

I have no idea how they arranged levers in overhead gantry boxes that were at right angles to the tracks!?! Take your pick I guess?!

Ask the best

Neil

[Alan Turner]

Having been rudely catapulted from the benign signal-free 19th century into the 20th, I am forced to ask the above, for I have no clue. I have one starter, a clutter of ground signals and six turnouts. I don't have a formal signalling diagram because it is not a prototype trackplan.

Without sight of a track plan it's difficult to advise.

If you have a starter then you must have a Home (even if it's not modelled). You may have a fixed Distant - so you won't have a lever.

In general the home signal levers go to the end of the frame nearest to the entrance to the station they relate to. For a through station the starter will go next to and in sequence with the Home. If however it's a Terminus the starter will go the the other end of the frame (where it would be if it were a through station).

The point levers exist in the middle of the frame in a logical order relative to the track plan.

regards

Alan

[ted.stephens]

I found this book useful when signalling my own layout.

Railway Signal Engineering.JPG

Railway Signal Engineering, L P Lewis, Gordon Roberts, 2013, ISBN 978-0-9563585-8-5

[JFS]

At face value, the signalling for Winander's project is so simple that the order of levers is not too critical.

However, many answers above, whilst I would not disagree with anythng said, do represent sweeping generalisations which might lead others astray and for that reason I would like to point out that other schemes did (do?) exist and as an example I would quote Barnham Junction which was re-signalled by the LBSC around 1911 and which remained in use until about 13 years ago.

Here is a screenshot from my Windows Simulation of that box ({self plug mode on} link to website below {off})

Barnham 1.jpg

The practice of the LBSC at that time was to group the running signals in the centre of the frame and distribute the points and ground signals geographically. Obviously, this is a much more convenient arrangement for the Signalman who did not have to dash from one of the frame to the other just to pass two trains!! It was less liked by the locking fitters as the locks between points had to run the full length of the frame. Although Barnham was a fairly large box, the same principle was appied at smaller boxes - for example Warblington, located about 15 miles West of Barnham. Furthermore, in both examples, the LBSC located the lever frame in the "back" of the box - which drastically affects things! - and which was again a feature which varied from place to place - often for particular reasons.

Other companies also followed this approach from time to time - one being the L&Y. However, both the LBSC and the L&Y used the oposite approach at different times in their History!

Also at Barnham, the Facing Point Locks "stand in" in other words you PULL the levers to release the points. This is also the opposite what what is often discribed as "the usual way". Again much better for the Signalman sine the blue levers do not have to be left reversed (to be bumped into as he dashes from end to end of the frame!!). This is another aspect which will adjust the order of levers - for example lvers 60 and 61 at Barnham.

Just to mention that the large number of spare levers at the low-end of the frame resulted from the removal of the run-round facilities on electrification in 1938.

So, as is often the case, the best answer is to look what your chosen prototype was doing at the time in its history when your model would have been built. The best way to access that information is to join the signally record society - a very modest investment - where much historic detail is available.

EDIT:- Winander - just to say that if you are going to fit interlocking to your frame and you have the freedom to choose the numbering of the levers, you can often make the locking easier by the choices you make. Conversley, if you don't think about the locking, then your choice of numbering can make life harder!


Hope that adds a bit of value.

Can I also put in a plug - to anyone with any interest in signalling or steam-era operation visiting Scaleforum this weekend. Please have a look at Exter West signal box - just next to the exhibition hall - 131 levers and operating a full prototype timetable from 1960 - which is VERY busy! It is the only place in the country where you can see a real and large signal box worked exactly as it would have been in the steam era. The chaps are very friendly and will let you have a go if you feel up to it!

[JFS]

... If we’re thinking of using the Society leverframe here, the switches for that are single throw. ...

I think I have misunderstood or you have mis-spoken - they are Single Pole, Double Throw microswitches. At least, the 200 or so I have fitted are

[grovenor-2685]

Please have a look at Exter West signal box - just next to the exhibition hall

?? See https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8700&p=97966#p97966