From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

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John Palmer
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From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby John Palmer » Thu May 12, 2022 1:58 pm

Thread title speaks for itself, really. I've come across information from the WWW indicating that the Photomatic railway collection was being marketed by RAS, a contact address for Mr G.T.V.Stacey of Egham being given, but that information was posted 17 years ago and seems likely to be well out of date.

Wasn't sure where to post this enquiry, but since it relates to my attempts to track down details of rodding and point locks at Burnham-on-Sea, the 'Signals and Control Systems' seemed best. Specifically, I am seeking a print of what I take to be referenced 'N1439' in Photomatic's collection, believed to have been taken in June 1959. I have a moderately clear photocopy of the print in question, showing in the foreground the apparatus that locked/released one of the hand point levers at Burnham, but I really need a good quality print of the image in order to make better sense of apparatus' nature.

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Winander
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby Winander » Thu May 12, 2022 4:13 pm

Hello John,

Does this help? https://www.rail-online.co.uk/f10686744771

We have arranged with Brian Stephenson, the owner of Rail Archive Stephenson, to make available on the Rail-Online site a selection of the superb images from his archive. These will include many from the Photomatic catalogue and the Lens of Sutton glass negatives, together with work from renowned photographers including W.J.V. Anderson, P.F. Cook, James R. Clark, Reginald R. Clark, K.L. Cook, C.R.L. Coles, Kenneth Field, M.J. Fox, Peter Gray, George R. Grigs, J.N. Hall, F.R. Hebron, T.G. Hepburn, David Hepburne-Scott, O.J. Morris, Colling Turner and W.H. Whitworth.


The NRM's photographic guide states:
W Beckerlegge, who lived in Brighton, was a prominent member of the Stephenson Locomotive Society from its early days. He was a prolific photographer who covered the operations of many different companies and his collection was acquired by the NRM in 1985, as part of the archive of Kenneth Leech. It is composed of 4¼ x 3¼ ins glass negatives, mainly copies of LMS official photographs from the inter-war years, together with a small number of earlier images featuring the Caledonian Railway. The majority of Beckerlegge's negatives, however, form part of the Photomatic collection and prints are available from RAS Marketing.
Number: 107 negatives
Date: c 1923 - 1939


Looks like the collection(or perhaps part) was sold June 2020. https://auctions.specialauctionservices ... info/id/69
Large collection of Railway-Related Postcards and Photographs, including modern sets, West Country Railways, Merchant Navy Class, Steam around Kent Coast, IoW Steam and others, Real Photographs Co Ltd, Photomatic, ...


Then there's this https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/144795-ra ... tephenson/

I imagine an enquiry to rail online may provide contact details for the owner.

hth
Richard Hodgson
Organiser Scalefour Virtual Group. Our meeting invitation is here.

bécasse
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby bécasse » Thu May 12, 2022 7:54 pm

John

Have you tried asking Chris Osment about the apparatus at Burnham, he uses the moniker RailWest on RMweb. Chris specialises in signalling matters related to the west of England lines of the former L&SWR, and the S&DJR in particular, and is very knowledgable on the subject.

There is a sub-forum devoted to S&DJR matters on RMweb and the query is best raised there https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/141-somerset-dorset-joint-railway-group/. Inter alia, you will find an interesting but inconclusive recent discussion concerning changes to Burnham signal box in BR days.

David Woodcock
Champlon, Belgique

John Palmer
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby John Palmer » Fri May 13, 2022 12:43 am

Many thanks to you both.

Richard, unfortunately it seems that Rail Archive Stephenson photographs made available by RailOnline are confined to locomotive pictures only. The picture I'm after won't be one from Beckerlegge, I think, given its 1959 date, and in view of that auction catalogue entry it appears that the Photomatic collection may have been dispersed. I've found another possible contact page for RAS at https://www.railpictures.net/members/contactphotog.php?id=20284, and an enquiry to RailOnline ought to establish whether they hold any Photomatic material other than locomotive shots. Some shots attributed to Photomatic are to be found on Ebay, but apparently not the one I'm seeking. Thank goodness I have a fair quality photocopy of the picture in question, even though I'm becoming increasingly pessimistic about locating a good print of it.

David, thanks for the suggestion about Chris Osment. As it happens, I'm currently engaged in an extended email exchange with Chris about a range of Burnham signalling matters since, as you say, he is extremely knowledgable about S&D signalling.

Though I'm not an RMWeb subscriber, I keep an eye on its S&D sub-forum and noted the recent thread dealing with Burnham's box. I'm confident the colour scheme of the box to be seen in that 1952 Transport Library picture is the Southern Railway stone and green livery which I believe persisted upon all buildings at the station until closure with the exception of the box, which received Western Region brown and cream livery whilst retaining the Southern green-enamelled nameplate. If there is a pre-BR picture of the box with a two-panel window in its east wall, I'd certainly like to see it as that would be a new one on me.

bécasse
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby bécasse » Fri May 13, 2022 12:09 pm

John

I am obviously not surprised to find that you are already in touch with Chris, although I am a little surprised that he doesn't have a copy of the photo you refer to.

In respect of the 1952 Transport Library photo, I am 99% certain that you are wrong and that the box is in the GWR light/dark stone colour scheme. Although there isn't that much other paintwork to compare with, the paint on the box framing is noticeably lighter than that on the surround of the station running-in board (and, of course, the enamel sign itself) and the paintwork generally on the box seems in better condition than that on the end of overall canopy. The WR took over engineering responsibility for Burnham soon after nationalisation (1949?) at a time when the former GWR practice of having specialist painting gangs for S&T, including boxes, still prevailed. It seems clear to me that such a gang had repainted the box (and the signals) while the former GWR colours were still being used (so probably 1949), but that the rest of the station remained in its Southern Railway colour scheme - the gang would literally have taken the running-in board off the box wall, repainted the box and then put the running-in board (with its frame still SR green) back in place.

John Palmer
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby John Palmer » Fri May 13, 2022 11:42 pm

David, I have to confess that I haven't yet asked Chris whether he has a print of the Photomatic shot in his possession. If he has, there is a strong likelihood that he will demolish by reference to it the conclusions regarding locking of the Burnham point levers that I am tentatively working towards and plan to put forward for his consideration.

For a number of reasons, I am going to respectfully disagree with you that Burnham signal box was ever besmirched by a GWR light/dark stone colour scheme! I'll not bore everybody witless by going into all the minutiae of why, but amongst the more important of my reasons is the misleading quality of the 1952 photograph as to the condition of the paint finish on the box. I have a photograph taken within a year later (a 12 August 1953 date is attributed to it) which shows that the paintwork on the boarding beneath the east end windows is in poor condition with patches of top coat flaked away – much worse than I would expect to find if a Western Region painting gang had done a conscientious repaint within the previous 4 to 5 years.

There's no doubt that the Burnham box later suffered from WR depredations involving removal of one of its three east-end window panels and a repaint in brown and cream, and if you have evidence to indicate that it also received a repaint in 1948-49 then I would be delighted to see it, as that would be a significant new contribution to the historical record. Better still if a colour photograph were to emerge showing the box in a light and dark stone scheme, as that would clinch the issue. But until then I propose to stick with the assessment I have made of what is revealed by the monochrome shots showing the box up to c.1953, namely that it retained a deteriorating paint scheme of stone with green-fading-to-blue framing, sills and ironwork derived from pre-Nationalisation practice.

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Tim V
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Re: From where can photographs in the Photomatic collection now be obtained?

Postby Tim V » Sat May 14, 2022 6:24 pm

I have to agree with John, the paintwork on the pictures of 1952 and 1953 is similar, but very different to the paint colour in 1960 - which is chocolate & cream (not light and dark stone - those are GW colours).
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)


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