The easy way to start in P4

[David Thorpe]

People considering starting in P4 may well be put off if they're told that they'll have to build their own track, that things will be more difficult that, say, 00, and that it will involve a lot of work to bring their modelling up to P4 standards. That may well have been largely true a few years ago. It isn't now.

Nowadays, a reasonably competent railway modeller can build the essentials of a P4 layout in a matter of days. How? Well, first of all buy some ready made P4 flexitrack from C&L Finescale. It's quite pricey but not probatively so, and you'll get track that won't hopefully suffer from gauge narrowing and other problems that may well result from trying to build your own track. Then buy a couple of British Finescale B7 P4 point kits from the Society Stores (once they are back in stock). These are very reasonably priced and come with ready made Vees and machined switch rails and are extremely simple to assemble and indeed have been used by 00 and N gauge modellers for years. Get some Peco bullhead rail joiners to join everything together and there you have it - a length of track and a passing loop, all in P4. In fact, it should be quite possible to build, say, a rural branch terminus or a country through station without having to build any track at all other than as outlined above. The only soldering you'll have to do is to attach wires to the track for your electrical connections.

But what about locos and rolling stock? Surely these are going to have to be compensated or sprung, and you'll probably have to build a kit? Not if you're modelling (relatively) modern image you don't. If you buy a RTR diesel loco it's usually not very difficult to replace the 00 wheels with P4 ones - replacement sets for many RTR diesels are available from Alan Gibson. I've found that the difficulty in doing this is not the actual doing, but knowing how to do it, and you'll find the Society very helpful in that regard. Your converted diesel will run well - no need for compensation or springing. I should add that this only applies to diesel locos - steam outline models are much more difficult to convert As for rolling stock, just fit replacement P4 wheels to RTR coaches - sometimes they'll fit without modification, sometimes you'll need to carve a little bit of plastic away from the inside of the bogie to accommodate the wider P4 wheelset. It's a similar story with freight stock although if you're fussy you may have to make some relatively simple alteration to the brake gear. Coach bogies and short-wheelbase freight vehicles do not generally require compensation or springing.

All of the above is well within the skill set of any reasonably competent 00 modeller. What it will allow you to do is dip a toe into the world of P4 and get something running quickly without having to build track, compensate your locos, and so on. Ideal, one might think, for the Society's diorama challenge. If it doesn't work out for you you'll probably be able to sell your track and convert your stock back to 00. Of course, if you then decide you want to go on to build something more complex with a track plan that requires rather more than B7 points you may then have to venture into the world of track building but that will be something for the future and not a requirement for the present.

[Guy Rixon]

Well said.

It's also worth considering what makes a good (=reliable and low grief) starter layout in P4. Avoiding sharp curves and abrupt reverse-curves seems to help a lot, particularly with rigid suspension. A panel-for-panel replacement of an OO layout into P4 is likely to have more problems than a new design.

[jon price]

It doesn't have to be diesel. My first P4 loco was a Hornby J52 with a rigid Mainly Trains chassis, built without any modification. Not strictly accurate, but infinitely better than a first attempt kit build or paint job would have been. Tested on a fellow society member's layout packed with inclines and turnouts it ran perfectly.

P2110131.JPG

This gave me the courage to go into scratchbuild/kits and painting (which I'm happy with) and compensation and CSBs, (with which I am still struggling!) whilst the J52 keeps on going.

P2110134.JPG

[Carlos]

Tested on a fellow society member's layout packed with inclines and turnouts it ran perfectly.

This gave me the courage to go into scratchbuild/kits and painting (which I'm happy with) and compensation and CSBs, (with which I am still struggling!) whilst the J52 keeps on going.

Both engines look very good! May I ask, if your first one ran perfectly, why to try compensation/CSB's?

Carlos

[jon price]

Both engines look very good! May I ask, if your first one ran perfectly, why to try compensation/CSB's?

Carlos

The Mainly Trains chassis kit was easy to make, but I'm not confident that the running would be as good for every loco kit, especially as I know that some kits are not as well produced and so the running quality couldn't be guaranteed.

[DougN]

It has been something I have been thinking about due to the RTR thread.

Last Saturday at our Melbourne finescale group meeting, one of our members brought along a Dapol Large Prairie which had been converted with Alan Gibson wheels to run on P4 track. (He also brought along a magnificent GWR steam railcar from Kernow...that was in OO but that is a major challenge) this brought on the discussion of what does RTR do vs how to do things in P4. As David's opening post if all you wanted was a easy route into scale modelling it can be as easy as converting a RTR loco (doesn't have to be a diesel) use RTR C&L track, and the British finescale point kits. I must admit that the loco did have 3D printed frames on both sides to reduce the "gap" between the wheels and the chassis but this can also be done with plasticard.

We all came to the conclusion if you wanted to 'dip your toe' this is the way it could be straight forward to do things. Some times we get caught on "3 way interlaced switch with a outside double slip on one leg" when most country stations would only use standard switches. Economics unfortunately kick in as it would have been cheaper to do the standard points than the complex. Yes there are people who enjoy the challenge of this type of modelling however to encourage the "average modeler" to try and stick at P4 is this the way forward

All of the above is making me rethink my "dream" layout as I have realized I am extremely time pour currently. So I am changing the way I steal some time to do some modelling each week.

[Terry Bendall]

All of the above is well within the skill set of any reasonably competent 00 modeller. What it will allow you to do is dip a toe into the world of P4 and get something running quickly without having to build track, compensate your locos, and so on.

I totally agree.

Given your enthusiasm for encouraging potential recruits David perhaps you might like to assist on the Society stand at Model Rail Scotland on February 23rd - 25th. Mike Ainsworth will be there on all three days but I will only be present on the Friday and Saturday so some extra help on the Sunday would be very welcome. Usually those on the stand bring along a few bits and pieces such as lengths of track, a turnout and some conveted stock so some examples of what you have done would be welcome. You would still be welcome on one of the other days if you cannot make the Sunday. Hopefully see you there.

Terry Bendall

[David Thorpe]

Thanks Terry, that's very nice of you to offer the opportunity, but now that I'm an awful lot nearer 80 than 70 I find travelling to be increasingly troublesome, and while I live in Scotland it's still a three hour journey from here to the SECC in Glasgow. As a result (and the fact that I hate crowds) I haven't been to the Glasgow show for many years. From a transport point of view it's also a little unfortunate that the Saturday of Model Rail coincides with the Five Nations rugby match beween Scotland and England at Murrayfield, so the trains may be a trifle, er, raucus. So with some considerable regret I must decline. However, I do know that one or two other members of our small area group are going to Model Rail and one of them may well able to assist - I'll ask.

Much as I dislike travel, I am nevertheless going to steel myself over the next few months in an attempt to gain sufficient courage to make the long journey down to Scaleforum in September. We'll see how things go!

[Terry Bendall]

A pity that you cannot nake it to Glasgow David but I appreciate your comments about increasing age. I turned 78 last September so I expect we are of a similar age. Fortunately my health is reasonable and I find keeping active is a good way to keep the body and mind going. It is of course a long way - Mike Ainsworth has a journey of around 450 miles although he usually travels by train. I shall travel by car since my son will be coming with some photographic equipment but my journey is only 360 miles.

For somethimg a bit closer to you, perhaps the good folks who organise the Society presence at the Perth show might like some help?

Terry Bendall

[David Thorpe]

You're a month youngerr than me, Terry! Happijy, and frantically touching wood, I too am pretty fit and active, the latter helped by my walking our dogs round the surrounding woods two or three times a day. Unfortunately that uses up what might otherwise be good modelling time! As for the Perth show, the team running the Scalefour section have already got things very well organised and I suspect that I would be more of an unnecessary hindrance than a genuine help. Anyway, having walked the dogs this morning, I shall shortly be making my way to my train room where I am remodelling my sidings and hopefully minimising future derailments. Having recently ripped up some track I shall now be laying some more - and before you ask, no, I shall not be using RTR track - not being a beginner, I'll be using recycled rail and ply sleepers, and a mix of rivets and Exactoscale chairs (I still don't trust the latter!).