"West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

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Allan Goodwillie
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"West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat May 29, 2010 5:11 pm

Here is the continuation of the "Starters" Build a loco project. :)

We left off during the preparation for painting and the next step was to show how the chassis was dealt with when using the grit blasting equipment. So here we are.

Allan :)
Attachments
PP11.JPG
Prior to putting the chassis into the blaster I cleaned it using some Vim and hot water, I also experimentally left the chassis in a dish overnight. The dish being filled with water and a couple of tablets for cleaning false teeth. The metal cleaned quite well, but not better than an acid dip would so I am not sure whether it was worthwhile as the blasting cleaned everything anyway. In future I will go from Vim to blasting and that is what I would recommend.
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PP09.JPG
Placing the chassis into the re-seal-able bag.
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PP08.JPG
Now place the grit spray into the bag and seal up as best as possible - remember to have your mask on in case of breathing in any blow back.
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PP07.JPG
The bag and chassis can be held by the spare hand as the grit spray is operated by the hand in the bag. I was surprised by how little escaped from the bag during the process.
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PP10.JPG
The final image shows one chassis blasted (The upper one) and the lower one has still to be done and of course is still shiny. We are hoping that this is a sign that the paint will take well! Well we will see.
PP10.JPG (25.77 KiB) Viewed 15412 times

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Mark Tatlow
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Mark Tatlow » Sat May 29, 2010 7:54 pm

Where do you source the grit from Allan?

And it looks to go striaght through a basic humbrol air-brush?
Mark Tatlow

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 8:44 am

Hi Mark, :)

The Badger grit blaster is available through many outlets. A quick browse of the internet will show that a set comes in around £33.00 - £35.00 from Shesto and others. What you get is shown here on their site.

http://www.shesto.co.uk/p1169/Badger_260-1_Mini_Sand_Blaster/product_info.html

I also illustrate the bottle of grit you get with the set below. Additional grit works out at about £5 per bottle available separately. Larger bottles are also available. I am not entirely sure that there is anything different between the average cheap airbrush spray head and the grit blaster, I have an old Badger 150 airbrush with a HD spray head and will try that at some time over the next week to see whether it will spray the grit.

Please read the instructions on the bottle below as it clearly indicates the safety rules.

Given all the warnings, it is probably better to make a proper spray booth than just rely on the temporary method I am using here, particularly, if you are going to do this sort of thing on a regular basis. I would also suggest that you do not use it with a good airbrush, different if you have an old airbrush that is no longer being used. This is what I would recommend.

Allan :)
Attachments
Alab2.JPG
Further safety information on the side of the canister.
Alab2.JPG (15.57 KiB) Viewed 15375 times
Alab1.JPG
Getting grit all over your locos or lathe would be a bad idea as well as getting it in your lungs or eyes, so wear the correct gear - you have been warned.
Alab1.JPG (24.74 KiB) Viewed 15375 times

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Mike Garwood
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Mike Garwood » Sun May 30, 2010 8:50 am

Allan

What sort of air pressure is this being used at please?

regards

Mike

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 10:40 am

Hi Mike,

I have checked and the answer is 25psi. This is what I have been using up until now using my compressor. However, I have been experimenting this morning and have found that it will still operate at 10psi. but does have to be held close to the work piece for it to be effective. The higher pressure will clean more effectively and spray a larger area at the same time.

Further to the comments on previous postings. The end of the grit blaster has a hole approx 2.0mm diameter which, of course, is much larger than the normal airbrush and an off / on button. Being curious I did try using my old airbrush this morning and found that it would not cope, the channel being too narrow to take the dust.

This is all very interesting from my own point of view and possibly from the more experienced modeller's point of view, but it is beginning to stray away from my intentions for beginners, most of whom, I assume, will have used either one of the first two methods suggested. I was intending the minimum use of tools for them and maybe have strayed beyond this at this point. For that I do apologise. :| ( Remember that as well as a grit blasting kit you are also into providing an air supply which leads to further expense - something I am trying to avoid for the beginner.) Feel free to contact me behind the scenes using email , or perhaps it could lead to another thread on the fourum if enough people are interested.

Hope this has been some help Mike

Allan :)

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 11:02 am

Disassembly of the coupling rods :)

For preparation of the wheels and coupling rods it is important to separate the pieces but keep all the parts in order, so that everything goes back in the order it came off. I do not take wheels off axles , nor do I take the gearbox off, even if using spray paint, I prefer to mask these areas.

So what I do is lay the parts out on paper and mark down on the paper the relationship of all the parts - this is where your colour markings will come in handy again to make sure all parts are put back in the right place. Since I have two chassis I have also marked the individual papers "Comp" for the compensated chassis and "Sprung" for the sprung chassis to clearly indicate which parts are for which chassis. I also lay out the other parts, including chassis and keeper plate at the same time. After cleaning they all get laid out in their positions again - best to do this as you go along. This keeps everything right.

If you have like me, used a super glue gel for temporarily retaining the nuts you will find that a small pair of pliers will release the coupling rod retaining nuts. They should come off fairly readily. The gel tends just to peel off the thread. I like David's use of tubing to hold them in place and have already recommended this.

Allan :)
Attachments
PP15.JPG
Items being placed and identified.
PP15.JPG (25.03 KiB) Viewed 15369 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 11:21 am

Dealing with the coupling rods :)

Before laying out the coupling rods I also mark on the board that they are going to be attached to, which set is which.

The coupling rods should be scrubbed in Vim and dried. They can then be set up on some cocktail sticks ready for painting. I use Bluetack to hold the cocktail sticks in place on a spray board. This makes it easy to handle. The Bluetack should also be protected by some masking tape to keep the spray off it . This stops it softening and moving due to a reaction with the spray, which makes it go gooey. It also allows you to be able to use it again. :idea:

Allan :)

PP28.JPG
SP for Sprung is marked on the block and CO for the compensated set. The rods are transferred one at a time and take up the same position as they were sitting on the paper sheet.
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PP25.JPG
The Bluetack and cocktail sticks being used to hold the coupling rods in place for spray painting. This method allows you to spray the undersides as well as the tops. Notice how the cocktail sticks are splayed out to secure the coupling rods.
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PP26.JPG
Here we see the covering of tape applied.
PP26.JPG (33.2 KiB) Viewed 15373 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 5:24 pm

Dealing with the wheels and Gearbox :)

The next stage is to clean the wheels using a glass fibre or brass brush and mask them using Maskol. The Maskol is painted, using a cheap brush, on to the cleaned wheel flanges, running surface and back edge. Tape up the other parts, gearbox, axles, so that they can be kept clear of spray. I have used a version of David's idea to cover the crank pins. just a piece of tubing with a small piece of Bluetack fitted into the end. In the past I have simply put a small piece of Bluetack on each one, but this allows for the re-use of the tack, without having to deal with something that has gone sticky. :idea:


Allan :)

PP17.JPG
A small piece of Bluetack put in the end of a small piece of tubing used to cover each crank pin.
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PP22.JPG
Image showing the tube attached to the crank pin
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PP18.JPG
Cut masking tape to put around the gearbox.
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PP19.JPG
Everything nicely covered
PP19.JPG (18.95 KiB) Viewed 15349 times
Last edited by Allan Goodwillie on Sun May 30, 2010 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun May 30, 2010 5:49 pm

Maskol used to cover other surfaces :)

Maskol can be used for many of the surfaces - including the horn guides on the chassis once the chassis has been cleaned as well as the contacts on the pick-ups and the wheel surfaces. :idea:

Now the surfaces are all cleaned and masked , it is painting time. The idea was to fit in with the West Groups building evening scheduled for Monday night, but it has been postponed due to various reasons.

I am intending doing the painting stage as a demonstration for the group, but this means that there would be a bit of a hiatus until we can meet, so I may make a point of painting one of the chassis just to keep this thread flowing. Once the chassis has been painted and re-assembled and tested, then the next step is the body. :D

Allan :)

PP20.JPG
Use an old brush for this task. The Maskol is basically a rubber solution and it will rub out of the brush once it is dry - I am using an ultra cheap nylon style brush.
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PP24.JPG
As the Maskol goes "off" it turns from a light lilac colour to a dark purple as well as going from thick to thin. You can hold the first wheel while painting the opposite wheel. Avoid touching once you have applied the Maskol. Do not worry if the application seems quite thick - make sure you cover all the parts you need to. Do one tyre on one set of wheels then continue to the next axle and do the same this gives the Maskol some time to dry before you tackle the opposite wheels.
PP24.JPG (165.09 KiB) Viewed 15346 times
PP23.JPG
For the second wheel, I tend to grip the axle with a pair of pliers while I paint the Maskol on to the other wheel as I do not want to touch the wheel surface by mistake.
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PP21.JPG
Here is one set all ready for painting. Notice the back of the wheels has been covered as this is the surface that the pick-ups will be touching.
PP21.JPG (32.76 KiB) Viewed 15346 times

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Mike Garwood
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Mike Garwood » Mon May 31, 2010 1:51 pm

Allan
Thanks for the prompt reply, your answer has prompted another question; after using the grit blasting did you have to 'wash' the model to get rid of any debris or did it just fall off/brush away. Or is it a case of just blowing air through the compressor/air brush to get rid of the tiny particles left.

regards

Mike

Julian Roberts
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:51 pm

Hi Allan - As a kind of aside on the preparation for painting: on my last modelling attempt, the Q1 you've referred to, for the first time I used the chemical blackening stuff from C&L on the wheels and all the chassis that was reachable, before cleaning in Vim equivalent and water and then painting. I was glad I did because with subsequent handling and troubleshooting some very little bits of paint on the wheel rims has tended to fall away, but this does not jar terribly as the metal below is a suitable darkish colour, quite in keeping with the not very clean appearance I aim for.

As I've had this on previous (unblackened) models as well - simply getting the wheels on the track for example can dislodge the paint quite easily I think - I don't THINK that the chemical blacking has made the paint adhere less well, but maybe that's debatable.

I think I will take the Acid Dip route next time. But if for whatever reason one is not able to detach the wheels, is the plastic harmed in the acid dip process?

On the Q1 when I'd done the chemical blacking, before cleaning up for painting, I wondered whether the chassis was convincing without any further work, the different materials (steel, brass, nickel silver) even with their own particular blacking each looking their own version of somewhere towards black, and overall a rather nice random effect showing. I should have taken a photo at that stage as a basis for reflection....

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:26 pm

Hi Julian, :)

As far as I know there is no effect on the plastic, but I do not know if there is any long term problem. I have had old Studiolith wheels which had been exposed to the light over a long period fall to pieces due to I assume UV light exposure, a problem with some plastics that I know about. I too would be interested to find out something more definite and have never chemically blackened any of my wheels. If I knew that there would be no problem with a specific chemical blackener then I would use it myself, after all some wagon wheels come already chemically blackened - this may be a sign that it is OK.
Our discussions on Tuesday night at our AGM were interesting around your tightening up on slop. I have a BR 2-6-0 which works on a Kemilway S4 chassis which uses an interesting compensating system with axle boxes which are independent of the chassis except for fine wires to act as a form of torsion bar and limiter of travel. It does have a very strange way of running, particularly at speed as it rolls in quite an alarming way, although it stays on the track. :cry: It was fine when first built. I attach some of the other photographs of other locos under way as well as an underside of your 0-8-0T showing the underside.

John Stocks two locomotives were also on show and still under development. A Jinty kit being built from new and a conversion of a MR 0-4-4T which he had originally had running in 00. The locomotives were photographed in poor light, so apologies to John as the locomotives look much better in the metal as it were, but when they are finished I will make sure we do a proper photographic session on them.

Allan :)

AGM01.JPG
The underside of Julian's 0-8-0T
AGM08.JPG
Also on view was John Stocks Jinty, now at a fairly advanced stage and running on John's test track.
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AGM09.JPG
John and his wife had made us feel very much at home on Tuesday night, here we have a second photograph of the rear end.
AGM09.JPG (54.94 KiB) Viewed 15121 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:55 pm

Here are some photographs of John's 0-4-4T. A favourite engine which he has decided to rebuild.Time will be given to repairing the body and its seating now that he has managed to get the chassis to the running stage. I particularly liked John's version of compensation for the rear truck, which allows side travel for the boggy. Good solution worked out by John and well worth consideration by any others contemplating something similar. :idea: Nice photograph of his gearbox arrangement as well. Again we must get some nice photographs at completion.

Allan :)


AGM07.JPG
John's gearbox driving on the front axle with an arrangement which keeps the gears out of the way and the motor in the boiler/water tank section
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AGM04.JPG
This shows the general layout of John's chassis, driving the front wheels and with the back driving wheel compensated with the trailing bogie wheels.
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AGM05.JPG
This top view shows the compensation beam and pivot.
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AGM06.JPG
This underneath view shows John's arrangement for the sliding pivot .
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AGM02.JPG
A rear view of the locomotive with a trial fit of the body, just to get an idea of how this is developing.
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AGM03.JPG
Although the body is not sitting quite right at this stage it still gives an idea of how far John has managed to get with this conversion. He has used Gibson chassis sides for this conversion.
AGM03.JPG (53.24 KiB) Viewed 15120 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:07 pm

Painting :)

Now we are at the painting stage, all the surfaces which you do not want to get paint on have either been wrapped up using masking tape or Maskol, this includes the surfaces of the horn block guides.

It is not necessary to have an airbrush or an extractor to be able to paint your models and I have in the past sprayed them during warmer days inside the garage with the door open for ventilation and away from drafts. Good ventilation and good light is important, keep all animals, fish tanks, other members of the family away from where you are working. Use a Mask.

On really good summer days you can work outside, small flies etc. may be a bit of a pest and paper put down on working surfaces tends to flip over on the slightest of breezes, so tape it down. Make sure there is no dust blowing around, work in a sheltered area.

As an alternative, it is possible to use spray paints in the workroom near an open window and give the air time to clear between spraying, but I do not really recommend doing this without some sort of extractor - better to use the garage. ;)

The time I had available to do the present exercise coincided with the one wet week in June, so I set up my extractor in the work room and opened the window. The work table was covered in newspaper and a piece of wire fitted to the extractor to allow me to hang various components in front of it.

I use grey metal primer from Halfords generally. The spray heads are fine and provided you follow the instructions about mixing etc. you should get a good result. Spray too far away on a hot day and the particles will collide prior to hitting the surface and land partially dry forming a bit of an orange peel effect. :cry: Too close and you will have too quick a build up and running paint. :o When a tin is new, you will have to hold it the required distance back and as the pressure goes down you will be able to come closer and get an even coating. :idea:

Allan :)
PC01.JPG
Here we have my extractor. Note that I have added another layer to the front of the extractor. This takes the form of a layer of Kitchen towel. This does not inhibit the work of the extractor, but stops it clogging up too quickly with the heavier elements.
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PC02.JPG
Here we see the wire holding up one of the chassis. The wire is put through one of the location holes.
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PC03.JPG
A sample of the keeper plate ready for painting being held by the stiff copper wire.
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PC04.JPG
The chassis being painted. The spray will naturally turn the chassis one way and if you change direction, turn the other way. You can use this to your advantage to help during the painting. I use an old pair of plastic tweezers to hold here and there, if necessary.
PC04.JPG (37.6 KiB) Viewed 15048 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:41 pm

Painting Continued

I now wear plastic gloves when using spray tins it saves cleaning fingers in acetone or nail varnish remover - just one more chemical less to deal with. Take your time and do not rush, wait for the paint to dry between coats 15 minutes is the suggested time, so maybe have another job on the go at the same time - in this case it was recording what was happening.

Patience Pays :D :!:

A stiff wire can be used to help hold the chassis in position, or tweezers, if necessary. The main thing is not to put too much paint on at the one go. I sprayed the top end first and having allowed the paint to dry I turned the chassis upside down and sprayed the other end. Once I was fairly sure I had covered all the main areas and was satisfied that they had an even covering I then held the chassis in such a position that I could get at the bits that were difficult to get to. Once dry, the entire unit was checked for coverage and finding all was well it was replaced on the layout sheet in its original position. This being done consistently piece by piece.

Allan :)
PC06.JPG
Here we see the first part of the process with the chassis hung up with one side showing towards the front at about 45degrees to the spray head allowing for the outside to be painted as well as part of the inside. There are bits that are going to be missed, but this will be dealt with later.
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PC07.JPG
Here we see the same view with the first coating of paint. Remember to give just a thin coat and give the appropriate time before giving a second coat of paint.
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PC08.JPG
Once dry, you can turn the chassis the other way, in this case I am using hands covered with plastic gloves. Easier to keep your hands clear of paint. An alternative is to use nail varnish remover to clean the fingers.
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PC09.JPG
Here we see the chassis levelled to allow for spraying of the less accessible parts.
PC09.JPG (26.97 KiB) Viewed 15046 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:57 pm

Painting the coupling rods

Using the board and the ice cream tub support it is easy to manipulate the coupling rods. The ones on the Barclay tanks will be painted red and therefor require priming. If you want the effect of weathering it is also worthwhile priming before painting using enamels. It is possible to use various blackening liquids from Mr Carr as per the Q1 that Julian has been building. This is even more permanent than painting and should be considered. Maybe Julian will be happy to add a little to the thread to show how he has done his. I have always been happy painting.

Allan :)
PC05.JPG
Here we see the coupling rods on the block and supported by an ice cream tub to give height and allow for the painting of the underside.
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PC12.JPG
The top sides of the coupling rods being painted
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PC14.JPG
Tilting the board to allow the underside to be painted, the tub still being used to support.
PC14.JPG (41.45 KiB) Viewed 15045 times
PC13.JPG
Coupling rods complete now.
PC13.JPG (51.73 KiB) Viewed 15045 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:21 pm

Painting Wheels Etc. :)

The other parts should be painted with equal care. The use of backing card to handle the wheels and to screen the backs I find particularly useful, once made they can be used over again. If each one is made a different shape it helps to keep things organised. The keeper plate should be hung from an area which will later be hidden below the locomotive. You can hook the bottom while spraying so that it does not blow off the hook.

Allan :)

PC15.JPG
The parts as they are painted are relaid out in position on the plan of parts
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PC16.JPG
The wheel has a card screen to keep the backs of the wheels clear of paint it is also helpful to allow for handling.
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PC17.JPG
Here is a wheel set being held on top of the ice cream tub during painting.
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PC18.JPG
This is the way to keep organised, keep the wheel sets in line according to the original layout.
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PC19.JPG
Again everything laid out after painting. The card blanks are swapped over to do the wheels on the other end of the axles, once the first side is dry.
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Attachments
PC11.JPG
Here we see the keeper plate being painted
PC11.JPG (35.79 KiB) Viewed 15042 times

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:18 pm

Painting the Top Coat :)

The top coat of paint is painted on in the same way, or if you wish you may prefer to use enamels to paint the parts. for black locomotives I tend to use matt or semi-matt paint on the chassis. If the chassis /wheels are coloured I often use my airbrush, but in the early days I simply painted on an enamel layer, again using two thin coats of well mixed paint. If using enamels for locomotives it is always best to use a fresh tin of paint and a good sable brush.

Some of the best brushes available these days are made for war gamers - I have a very good set of Citadel brushes from a few years ago and was disappointed to find that they have been changed recently. I also have a set of Designer's sable brushes again available a number of years ago. They hold more paint at one go than the normal sable brushes, having longer hairs - easier to clean as well. When cleaning brushes, use the correct solvent each time then wash in soap and water, rinse properly, then, instead of putting them in a jar, lick your fingers and use the spittle to shape the brush again. do not lick the brush directly as you do not want to ingest anything you would not want in your system. Hang the brush up vertically so that any residue of material works its way down to the point rather than the ferrule. Little loops can be attached to the brush ends to allow for this. Common on Japanese brushes by the way and very sensible. :idea:

In this case I am simply respraying with a spray can, having allowed the primer to dry completely. No point in showing the same procedure over again.

Weathering can also be done at this time if you intend weathering the locomotive, this saves having to mask up areas all over again.

This takes the chassis to the point of finally rubbing off the Maskol and removing the tape for re-assembly and final wiring up of the motor.

I have a number of experimental things I intend for these two locomotives in terms of sound and smoke. So there will be a break between this part and the follow up on the chassis. Summer is here and demands of house and garden will take over for much of the next two months and then the bodies will be assembled in time for Scalefourum. Most of the group are making chassis for fitting to kits and ready to run, but I have had a few requests to cover the scratch building of the locomotive bodies and probably will continue with that, if there is a strong enough response. A simple reworking of a Comet chassis has also been requested , to show how a keeper plate can be fitted and wheels etc. dropped down for construction, painting etc.

This may be a good time for those of you out there that I know are following the series to post photographs of what you are building and the stage you have reached. Don't feel shy, I am pleased that the West Group boys have been willing to show their part finished models and not just wait until they are finished. A follow up on the engines when finished will also be on the cards as part of this series I am sure.

I do hope those of you that have been following this thread have found it of some use and those that have more experience have still picked up the odd glimmer or two. I am taking a work bench and samples to Scalefourum and if you wish to bring part built / finished engines along and have a chat I will be really happy to meet you then. Thank you those who have already contributed to this little sortie on the web I have appreciated your contributions very much. :)

Allan :)

jasp
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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby jasp » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:09 am

Hi Alan
Excellent series. thank you
On the question of coupling rods, I note that they are jointed on the centre axle crankpins but seem to recall that this was inadvisable for some reason.
What are your experiences?
On the question og blasting grit, as you know, I was using grit blasting a number of years ago and found the Badger grit to be very expensive.
Unfortunately, the grit gets contaminated with bits that are too large for the blaster nozzle and has to be either discarded or sieved. I cannot remember the grit size, offhand, but will check when I am back home. Sieves of appropriate size tend to only be available from laboratory suppliers and expensive.
Aluminium oxide grit is available in larger quantities and cheaper than Badger, again, I will check the source when I return home.
Cheers
Jim Pairman

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby allanferguson » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:25 pm

Jim

I wondered about this and raised a query about this on e4um some time ago. John Brighton, for whose experience I have much respect, responded, and I hope he will forgive me copying his response below. I have found it helpful. Even more helpful is to build four coupled locos!

Allan Ferguson

Hi Allan,

For man years I pivoted my crank coupling rods on the centre crank pin (back in the dark ages) when using moving hornblocks but they always had a small, and sometime large, tight spot in them and no matter what I did I could never get rid of it. Martin Finney then said to me that way would never work and I should pivot on the knuckle like the real thing. I did and it has worked for me ever since.

Think about what you are doing with an 0-6-0 driven on the rear axle. The rods have to have the exact same crank pin hole centre as the crank centre as the wheel centre as the horn block axle centre so that is 6 drivers + 6 rod holes times + 6 wheel centres + 6 hornblock centres ... so 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 24 centres to get exactly right without back and forth movement being any different between them.

Assuming you get all these centres right and you pivot on the centre crank pin you have to pick up the slop on that crank pin before transferring the movement on to the next wheel but it has the same effect as a hornblock that is moving back and forth on each revolution ... tight spots!

By articulating on the knuckle the rods act as fixed rods and transfer the drive to each crank pin at the same time.

Lots of assumptions here like getting all those centres right in the first place but even if you did you will never get smooth drive if you split the rods to articulate them on any crank pin, they just do not work correctly. Not even mentioned quartering or differing crank pin throws in the same sets of wheels!!!!

Hope this helps but if not come to an exhibition where I, or others on this list, am demonstrating and I will go through it stage by stage

Kind Regards

John F B

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:04 pm

Hi Jim and Allan,

sorry it has taken a little while to get back to you, but I have been away sailing on the west coast. The weather was dreadful with extreme storm force 11.5 predicted so we hid in the bay at Plockton and I am fairly sure we ended up with a force 8 maybe 9 even there. Couldn't get off the boat for three days! The rest of the trip was either no wind or too much but from the wrong direction - you'll know what I mean Allan. Back now and I have found that Allan F has answered the question fairly well.

I have locomotives built using either technique. Given the construction technique I have been expounding you do have a very good chance of getting all the centers correct, so I have not had any locomotives failing to work. Making jointed couplings has its own problems, particularly for beginners and that is why I have not recommended it in the series. Most kits also come with the two part coupling system and it is something which the beginner is more likely to come across.

I will take with me examples of both to Scalefourum where I am working on one of the workbenches. I really hope that people bring their models with them to have a good chat as happened at Glasgow. As well as examples of various techniques and locos I will be bringing a computer full of images and examples with me. It was nice of the Scalefour editor to publish a photograph of me in my railway room with my model of Grayrigg at the top of the page. If I had known about it I would have sent him the photo with the Northeast Finescale group visit taken a number of years ago with our friends from that part of the world.

Happy days. :)

Allan

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby allanferguson » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:50 pm

Allan

Well, I sympathise. Northerlies not too good in Plockton, tho' good for getting you home again. I look forward to the continuation of this very interesting thread.

Regards

Allan F

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby jasp » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:42 am

Hi Allan
The grit i bought was 180 grade aluminium oxide, from www.thepolishingshop.co.uk and cost £3.95 + postage fir 1 kilo - significantly less than the Badger stuff
Cheers
Jim

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:08 am

Visitors to this project may wish to move on to the final part where I scratchbuild the bodies for the locomotives. It is some time since I built the chassis for the Barclay locomotives and they were put on the back shelf while I worked on bits of Burntisland and reworked other parts of my Grayrigg and Dubbieside layouts. However I have been working towards building my new layout Scotts Road which the Barclay locomotives were intended for and due to some prodding from my friend Bob Heatherington I have started work on the bodies last weekend so this will be done as a progress report as the engines evolve over the next few weeks. Sorry those of you who may have been following the first two parts of this :cry: but I did say at the beginning that the thread was for beginners considering building their first chassis - however by now they may want to have a go at a complete scratchbuild so here goes - it will not be prescriptive but be in the usual style of having a go and enjoying the process. There will some mistakes made along the way and corrected I am sure , but that is the norm when scratchbuilding something and I want to reflect that as it will give a true impression of what it is like :cry: :) and share that with those who would like the challenge and who are only starting out on the experience and pleasures of making something completely by hand. I hope just as many join in as did in the past with useful ideas for the beginner. :)

You will find the new thread at http://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3837

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Re: "West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco part 2

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:00 pm

Although this section is much shorter it too is quite heavily used and like part one and part 3 maybe it all needs an index to allow for quicker finding of things - I have mentioned at the end of part one that several people have suggested doing the work on this, but I will probably not have time until after the New Year - perhaps the Webmaster could give some advice. It is not that it is all that difficult to find things using the search box, but I do understand that it could be done as a chapter list perhaps. I have been doing a similar track making one recently and making everything available as downloads. So there will not be the same level of people using the forum to get the information, but they can have it downloaded in packages on their own computer drives. The only thing with this is that when developing a theme it is useful to have people put in their own experience or discuss various aspects of the content and that might not happen to the same extent. :)


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