RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Help and advice for those starting in, or converting to P4 standards. A place to share modelling as a beginner in P4.
Martin M
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RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Martin M » Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:21 pm

Just a thought there are odd articles here on how to convert RTR to P4. Would it be worth having a separate heading/sections where we could list suitable RTR conversation that people have done so that it is more easily findable? Then if you wanted to find out how people have converted a Hornby 0-6-0 Pecket you would know where to look... assuming someone has written it up. I am sure new p4 members would find this useful?

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garethevans1986
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby garethevans1986 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:28 pm

Id first start off at the ultrascale website to see which wheels are available. This will give you an idea of what is easily converted.

Anything else eg Dapol Class 73, there are posts on here on how people have converted them but it's a bigger job than the Ultrascale "drop in and forget".

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steamraiser
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby steamraiser » Tue Feb 07, 2023 5:22 pm

Also Gibson wheels. A greater range of wheels, but not so easy a conversion as Ultrascale.

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Winander
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Winander » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:58 pm

Martin M wrote:Just a thought there are odd articles here on how to convert RTR to P4. Would it be worth having a separate heading/sections where we could list suitable RTR conversation that people have done so that it is more easily findable?

We have a wiki currently called Notes - link above. Go for it!!
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DaveHarris
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby DaveHarris » Tue Feb 07, 2023 10:54 pm

Cant see a link to Wikki? :?:

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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Stephan.wintner » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:08 pm

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steamraiser
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby steamraiser » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:26 pm

I could find nothing of relevance to the OP original enquiry in either Notes or the Digest.
The original OP was enquiring about converting rtr locomotives to P$ standards,
Where are the sheets showing conversion of diesels and those steam engines people have satisfactorily converted?

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:23 am

steamraiser wrote:I could find nothing of relevance to the OP original enquiry in either Notes or the Digest.
The original OP was enquiring about converting rtr locomotives to P$ standards,
Where are the sheets showing conversion of diesels and those steam engines people have satisfactorily converted?

Gordon A
Bristol


Digests 49.1 and 49.1.1 would appear to give some information but may not be very up to date. Clearly it is dependant on those members that have done such conversions voluntarily creating Digests/Notes that provide the information the OP wants. In effect writing a set of instructions with photos for the hard of hearing.

Such conversions are sometimes included as/within a forum topic and the originator may feel that is sufficient.

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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:16 am

Winander wrote:We have a wiki currently called Notes - link above


steamraiser wrote:I could find nothing of relevance to the OP original enquiry in either Notes or the Digest.


Perhaps Richard was suggesting that members put the information that is already on here in various posts into the wiki. :)

Martin M wrote:Would it be worth having a separate heading/sections where we could list suitable RTR conversation that people have done so that it is more easily findable?


This seems a verby useful suggestion but rather than starting something new, the wiki seems to be the sensible place for such things. Rather than one person spending time to collate everything that has appeared, all that those who have posted things in the past need to do is to put up the information on the wiki. Not a big job and the workload is then shared.

Remember that useful suggestions such as this only happen if people are prepared to do the work. :)

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jon price
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby jon price » Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:11 pm

A good idea, but I can't work out how to add to the WIKI. And Is it just a set of links to topics?
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:09 pm

The 'Notes' front page has this:
If you wish to experiment with editing in a safe area, use the 'Playground'. You may wish to refer to the DokuWiki Syntax, which is different in details to wiki's such as Wikipedia. The quick way to deal with the syntax when new to it is to cut and paste from existing pages, such as this Syntax Help.

To add a new page you just add a link to an existing page, then follow that link to create your new page.
I have added such a link to the front page and started a listing of conversion articles which you can now add to.
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Martin M
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Martin M » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:12 pm

Thanks for all the interest and feedback it is really appreciated. I agree with Terry that people need to add to it and that was i was expecting, even if there is two different ways to p4 the same RTR loco. Regarding the Wiki function i have used this forum for years and not been aware of it. It not obvious to me where it was. But if the right place to put it then that is fine.
The example i have in my head is that we have a new starter in our group and he has a favorite RTR loco and he wants the easiest was to convert it and an idea of how difficult it is? There could be a drop in wheel set conversion or does he have to build a new chassis and what have other people done....
We could then direct him to the location and there are perhaps 2 entries for say a Hornby M7 for example and it may be a link to the relevant Scalefour news if there was a full description on how to do it or there is an article on how someone modified the loco to take some Gibson wheels or similar and uploaded that which could only be a paragraph or two.... If this was listed by manufacture then it would be easier to find, and as new locos are brought out they could be added and someone has converted one if they could update a page or two with perhaps a list of the parts they used and some hints and tips on how they did it? It may be worth add a simple, medium or difficult conversation status and maybe even an impossible one?
I know when I was new to P4 if you could get you favorite loco converted and you could get something to run it would help and if there was a set of instructions and parts list I think it would be a big help Many thanks

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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Tim V » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:33 pm

The EMGS do something similar with their data sheets on conversions. But these are for EM, not P4.

I would suggest there are very few easy conversions to P4. The Ultrascale drop in sets cover the bases on those, using 'other' wheels (AG for example) demands skills like accurately putting on the wheels, quartering them. As such I would suggest not suitable for a beginner.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Jeremy Good » Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:53 pm

Tim,

Converting diesels using the Alan Gibson conversion packs is pretty straightforward and you don't have to quarter the wheels on most of them....

Locos like the Bachman Class 25s or Heljan Class 33s or Hymeks are an ideal place to start to get something up and running. I suspect that there are conversion threads on the Forum for some of these but if not, just asking the question will usually get a response.

Jeremy

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Tim V
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Tim V » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:06 pm

Jeremy Good wrote:Tim,

Converting diesels using the Alan Gibson conversion packs is pretty straightforward and you don't have to quarter the wheels on most of them....

Locos like the Bachman Class 25s or Heljan Class 33s or Hymeks are an ideal place to start to get something up and running. I suspect that there are conversion threads on the Forum for some of these but if not, just asking the question will usually get a response.

Jeremy

You still have to get the wheels on square and true, not easy, so that's why I discounted them.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:26 pm

Tim V wrote:You still have to get the wheels on square and true, not easy, so that's why I discounted them.

Nobody is going to get far in P4 without developing that skill. I suggest a beginner needs to be encouraged to try not told its all to difficult. And you can spoil several AG wheels well before you reach the price of an Ultrascale, not to mention that the beginner probably wants to get on with it, not wait around for months.
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jon price
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby jon price » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:17 pm

Just added link on wiki to Alan Gibson instructions for rewheeling RTR using Gibson wheelsets. There are 13 Bachmann, 16 Hornby, 3 Heljan and 1 Oxford steam loco. (actually on the page there is also a Hornby 08, and a Mark1 coach)

These instructions are detailed, with photos. It occurs to me that the instructions (re pickups, con rods etc) would just as easily apply to Ultrascales if they are available.
Last edited by jon price on Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tim V
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Tim V » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:19 pm

My suggestion is to try the Ultrascale conversions first! Then as a next step to try AG wheels.

Once they have a running loco with Ultrascales on they will most likely be delighted. Any beginner trying AG wheels for their first effort will probably be disappointed. There have been too many beginners put off by that entrance to P4 modelling.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby jon price » Wed Feb 08, 2023 5:33 pm

Interestingly my first (only) Ultrascale conversion (L&Y Pug) was a disaster with the wheels going out of quarter and I haven't been able to get them back in since. At the same time an RTR body, a Hornby J52 in GNR livery which I wouuldn't have tried to replicate, and using a Mainly Trains Chassis and Gibsons, ran perfectly first time. I make no claim for either system in other hands.

I have added, on the Wiki, a link to the Brassmasters Easychas page which has 6 Hornby and 6 Bachmann locos using the original chassis block, motor and gearbox with a fold up overlay. Full, illustrated instructions downloadable from the site. I haven't done one of these but I hear they are pretty straightforward. I believe Ultrascale offer wheelsets for at least some of these locos.
Connah's Quay Workshop threads: viewforum.php?f=125

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Captain Kernow
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Captain Kernow » Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:18 pm

It's probably worth mentioning that locos from some manufacturers use non-standard axle diameters, which can make conversion more complicated.

Rapido, for example (16XX and 16" Hunslet) seem to have 2.4mm axles.

There are also occasional useful articles in the likes of MRJ. I can't remember which issue at the moment, but someone described converting a Bachmann J72 (the newer one) to EM a couple of years ago. These recent Bachmann locos (the 94XX is the same) have 3mm axles running in sliding brass bearings, which are relatively easy to open out to 1/8".

The recent (and excellent) Planet Industrials 'Victory' Kerr Stuart 0-6-0T also has 3mm axles in sliding brass bearings.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby kelly » Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:15 am

There are also the branchlines wheelsets for the bachmann DMU/EMU models.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:26 am

grovenor-2685 wrote:Nobody is going to get far in P4 without developing that skill. I suggest a beginner needs to be encouraged to try not told its all to difficult.


I totally agree. There have been lots of examples of people new to working to P4 standards who have carried out conversions successfully. As Jeremy says for those who want an easy start. fitting 14 mm Branchlines coach wheels to a four axle model is one answer. If you leave the pin points on the axles until the wheels have been fitted you even have a guide to get them on square. :)

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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:24 pm

kelly wrote:There are also the branchlines wheelsets for the bachmann DMU/EMU models.

See Bachmann LMS twins here,
https://www.scalefour.org/members/notes/conversions-rtr-to-p4
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby kelly » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:27 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
kelly wrote:There are also the branchlines wheelsets for the bachmann DMU/EMU models.

See Bachmann LMS twins here,
https://www.scalefour.org/members/notes/conversions-rtr-to-p4


The DMU/EMU wheelsets offered are split to fit the Bachmann motor bogies. The others I've used for quite a number of diesels.
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Re: RTR to P4 conversion Recommendations/datbase?

Postby grovenor-2685 » Thu Feb 09, 2023 1:58 pm

kelly wrote:The DMU/EMU wheelsets offered are split to fit the Bachmann motor bogies. The others I've used for quite a number of diesels.

Exactly why rhey were so useful for 10001, and covered in detail in that linked forum topic.
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