Hello everyone...New member

Help and advice for those starting in, or converting to P4 standards. A place to share modelling as a beginner in P4.
TwentyTwoStu
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:36 pm

Hello everyone...New member

Postby TwentyTwoStu » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:34 pm

Hi all,

I am a returning railway modeller after a break of 15 years or so, for various reasons of life. On reflection of all the changes that have taken place in the hobby in the time I've been gone and carefully considering what I want from my new venture has landed me here! Being in my 30's now I feel inclined towards creating a layout with somewhat more realism than my previous teenage skill allowed.

My plan is to recreate a station on the Helston Branch line in Cornwall, closed in 1964. From my username you may deduce I am fond of the class 22 which worked this line in its dying days.

One question I have is about p4 wheelsets and converting diesel locomotives, say the due to be released dapol 22, How would I go about converting such a loco? Where do I find the necessary bits and bobs I.e drop in geared wheel sets, bogie frames if necessary? Any help along these lines would be absolutely brilliant, the shop confuses me a bit being newly back into this hobby after a long while. Thanks in advance.

Oh I am based in Cornwall if there's anyone down this way?

Kindly regards

Stu

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby grovenor-2685 » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:55 pm

Hi Stu,
Welcome to S4. You will find many friends here.
It sounds like you are gearing up for a great project.
I have some info on Diesel conversions on my website, probably from back when you were modelling before. :) But they will give the general idea.
http://www.norgrove.me.uk/index.htm
Anything specific to the Dapol 22 is going to have to wait until its released and we can all see what sort of wheelsets it has and how easy it might be. But there will be a way.
Regards
Keith
Grovenor Sidings

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Paul Willis
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby Paul Willis » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:44 pm

TwentyTwoStu wrote:Oh I am based in Cornwall if there's anyone down this way?

Kindly regards

Stu


Hi Stu,

Welcome to the Society. I know two-sixteenths of b*gger all about converting diesels, but I do know that we have souls down in Cornwall.

Steve Howe in particular, who is a decent bloke and damn fine down to earth modeller. Surfboards come to mind...

Have a look at https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=921. Don't be put off by the date of the first posting. Steve is still around and I'm sure will be along sooner or later...

Best wishes,
paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

James Walters
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby James Walters » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:52 pm

Hi Stu,

Welcome to the forum. This is a friendly place to visit and everyone is very helpful. I'm am only marginally further along my P4 journey, and am learning something new with each visit to the forum.
It's interesting that you mention the Helston branch as a while back I purchased some drawings on acetate by Pat English, including some structures along the line. I've been enjoying redrawing them and experimenting with some laser cutting.

Do you recognise this flat packed engine shed?

Helston Shed.jpg


May I suggest you save the date for next years Scaleforum - I enjoyed my first last year, I'm sure you'd find it inspirational too.

My best wishes,

James
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TwentyTwoStu
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby TwentyTwoStu » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:07 pm

Thankyou for the replies so far. I've just been looking through your website and there is some very useful info on there so thankyou for that. I am also a merg member, pretty new to that too, so may catch you over there aswell at some point.

We definitely have souls down here paul, I've coincidentally just come across the Cornish riviera area group; I will give Steve an email.

I was thinking of purchasing that kit myself James, it does look like a good one for sure. It's funny there's several renditions of the Helston engine shed that are or have been on the market. Scenecraft do a decent ready made job (not for me really though) and peco did do a fairly awful kit if I remember rightly. I don't know what it us about that shed; I guess it just provokes nostalgia in a quintessential kind of way. Anyway thank you all for your kind words and suggestions.

Stu

James Walters
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby James Walters » Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:18 pm

When I’ve finished drawing all the bits I’ll send you one to play with. :D

MPR
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby MPR » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:29 am

Hi Stu
On the subject of the Class 22…
Tim Maddocks - who posts as “Captain Kernow” has converted one of these from the first batch. He wrote it up on RMWEB
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/blogs/entry/936 ... -22-to-p4/
The photos have disappeared during the forum’s issues last year, but the text is informative - I wouldn’t be surprised if Tim comments and updates after this!
Basically, these had 2mm stub axles and all metal wheels, so he needed to short between the rim and axle. Type used was Ultrascale SR 3’7” tender wheel, which is not quite correct, but pretty close. I have the parts for one of these to do one day!

Terry Bendall
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:11 am

Welcome Stu

TwentyTwoStu wrote:One question I have is about p4 wheelsets and converting diesel locomotives, say the due to be released dapol 22, How would I go about converting such a loco?


I cannot help with the Dapol class 22 but if you look on the Society web site https://www.scalefour.org/members/newsarchive/ you will find all the back numbers of Scalefour News. The guide for Scaleforum 2006 includes an article I wrote on Getting Started in P4 which includes mention of various methods of converting diesel locos. Although that is now quite old, the two basic methods, using direct replacment drop in wheels - where available, or using 14mm dia coach wheels and swapping the drive gears are used by many people. Many people use the wheels available from Branchlines for this job.

I will also look out some other information on diesel loco conversion I have written and send that to you by private message.

Terry Bendall

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steve howe
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby steve howe » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:53 pm

Paul Willis wrote:
TwentyTwoStu wrote:Oh I am based in Cornwall if there's anyone down this way?

Kindly regards

Stu


Steve Howe in particular, who is a decent bloke and damn fine down to earth modeller. Surfboards come to mind...
Steve is still around and I'm sure will be along sooner or later...

Best wishes,
paul


Yes I'm still around, large as life and twice as unpleasant....! Watermouth has been a long time in the revival, but is now beginning to gain momentum at last. Don't be put of by its pre-War GWR disguise, we are a broad church here and it wouldn't be the first time a blue diesel has appeared on the layout and even :o a P4'd Eurostar set..... (but that was a long time ago) Anyone living or visiting down here is welcome to come along and see whats going on.

Steve
(decent bloke - allegedly)

Jeremy Good
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:36 pm

Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby Jeremy Good » Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:22 pm

The original Dapol 22 could be converted in 2 ways.

The route Tim Maddocks took retained the original split axles and shorted the wheels. This was referred to on RMWeb but the photos may have disappeared.

I couldn’t make that option work. I used the equivalent spoked Alan Gibson wheels on 2mm axles. I drilled through the central gears to allow the axle to pass through and used the original bearings. Doing this meant the split axles didn’t now work so I removed the built in pick up strips which rested on the bearings. I then replaced the pick-ups with traditional wire pick ups wired back to the motor.

These locos aren’t the most straightforward conversion but once done work pretty well. I have a second one to do and will try and post some photos showing the conversion in due course.

All this assumes that they don’t change the design for the new locos…

Good luck!

Jeremy

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby Captain Kernow » Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:24 pm

Hi Stu,

A warm welcome from me as well!

I can't recall which photos I put up on RMWeb for the blog entry, but I'll try to sort something out in due course.

I suspect that the axle design for the re-releases of the Class 22 will be exactly the same as the original models, can't see Dapol incurring any unnecessary extra expense.

As you may gather, the Class 22 conversion is not straightforward and is not like most other diesel 'drop-in' conversions. I think Ultrascale looked at it at the time, but decided not to proceed with it on a commercial basis.

I found the conversion - the way I did it - relatively straightforward, provided I kept my wits about me.

This is the beast concerned, on my (still) unfinished layout 'Callow Lane':
20210727_113121.jpg


The other photos of the actual conversion are stored on a separate hard drive, which I will dig out sometime.
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Tim M
Member of the Devon Riviera Area Group.

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby Captain Kernow » Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:11 am

I have started to restore the photos to the blog entries, but there are a lot of them and it may take a little longer.
Tim M
Member of the Devon Riviera Area Group.

TwentyTwoStu
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby TwentyTwoStu » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:26 pm

Thankyou all for the warm welcomes, good suggestions and helpful information. As has been mentioned I doubt dapol will want to encur any extra expenses unnecessarily, as so I also suspect it'll be the same design as the last 1. We'll see come the time. Trust me to want to convert a loco with such an untypical conversion process. Hopefully I'll be able to manage it. I'd be absolutely gutted if not. It is one of the critical components of the prospective layout I've planned. Crucial really.

In the meantime I'm trying to get to grips with building a few wagon kits to p4.

Sorry its taken me a while to get back on here and read the rest of the replies. And again, thank you.

Take care guys,

Cheers,

Stu

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steve howe
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby steve howe » Fri Feb 10, 2023 4:48 pm

Hi Stu,

You will find a lot of information on Nancegollan (and the rest of the Helston Branch) on the Cornwall Railway Society's website including the locomotives last used on the line:

http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/helston-branch.html

I've always thought Nancegollan would be a fascinating modelling subject, possibly with a little tweaking it could be presented as an L shape with the sidings conveniently situated in the corner of the L.

Cheers

Steve

TwentyTwoStu
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Re: Hello everyone...New member

Postby TwentyTwoStu » Tue Feb 14, 2023 1:03 am

Cheers Steve there's loads of stuff on there. The L shape you suggest it could be done as was pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking, and conveniently it would fit my space well. It has thrown up so many interesting things in my research already, the place has meaning to me aswell as its where I used to take my motocross bike when I was a child. There was a strange old dilapidated cottage down the end of a long farm track, 5 min ride on the bikes, where we met a wiley Mr muscle looking man and paid him £3 for the day, ha. Was good fun at time. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion Steve. All the best.

Stu


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