BR Standard brake vans

[Will L]

The csbers don't retain their wire so perhaps you won't have any trouble with it coming out.

We certainly don't attach them to anything, but I always bend a right angle into one end so you've got something to hang on to. It also provides a stop so it wont go in beyond a certain point. You then arrange that once installed in the body something, usually a buffer beam, will stop the bent end sliding back too far either so it can't drop out.

Having taken those precautions, you might expect to find that in a working loco you would always find the wire at one or the other end of its possible movement, but this doesn't seem to happen either. Leastways not on my locos.

[BROMLEY BASIN]

Wow! I am stunned at the volume and depth of erudite information that my initial enquiry has generated. If anyone ever wondered (as I once did) whether it is worth joining the Scalefour Society, then point them to this thread as an example of the level of support that is available.
Thank you very much indeed to everyone who has contributed, it really is appreciated, as out of the darkness I now see light. Both vans are now progressing nicely in the right direction.

Chris A

[zebedeesknees]

Back to brake vans then.

Not sure how I'll get a couple of AAA's and an LED in there though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htVMsV38MnM

P

If I may suggest... a single Li-Po rechargeable (3.7v) would be sufficient. And optical fibres can be fixed to LEDs with that 5 second fix uv setting adhesive, which is gin-clear and non-conductive.

I use it to glue fibres from an old lamp to make repeaters for the LEDs on my radio receivers, but not everyone wants to know that...

Ted.

[smardale]

According to the Leicester Railway Wagon Society's booklet "Guard's Brake Vans", from 1986, the following vans are noted as still in use with a working vacuum brake cylinder etc...

B950303
B950406
B952654 (my notes)
B953827 (my notes)

Cheers
Duncan

[Clive Impey]

In his book on BR standard brake vans Eric Gent notes the existence of at least two vans that had concrete end platforms that were flush with the side frame and buffer beam tops instead of being three inches above. One of these was B953024 (Dig 504, Lot 2741, 1951).

In The Colour of Steam Vol 9 The Great eastern Lines By R C Riley (ISBN 0-906899-38-9) there is a photo of B954654 (Dig 507, Lot 3227, 1959) which also has flush end platforms. The van was branded ' For Test Purposes Only'.

Eric Gent was unable to give an explanation why the van was constructed in this way. I wonder if any information regarding this modification has come to light since the publication of Eric's book to explain this modification.

[Martin Kelly]

I'm enjoying this interesting topic because one of my future planned wagon building projects is a BR brake van using the Airfix body/Dave Bradwell underframe combination. So I'm interested in photographs of brake vans on Southern Region in the late 1950s/early 1960s and photos that show the ducket in close-up and the way the horizontal handrail is fixed on to the body below the ducket.

The other thing I'd like to find out is whether the concrete weighting was left unpainted or actually painted bauxite.

[Noel]

The other thing I'd like to find out is whether the concrete weighting was left unpainted or actually painted bauxite.

The metal surround was always painted, but photographs show that the top surface of the concrete normally was not. I wonder whether the concrete was cast in situ after everything else was done - there is no indication of any means of lifting the slabs.

[Terry Bendall]

The other thing I'd like to find out is whether the concrete weighting was left unpainted or actually painted bauxite.

Page 12 of Scalefour News 222 shows my treatment of the concrete ballast weights. The base colour was probably a mix of Humbrol No. 121 and 146 with some patches of darker greys applied by dry brushing. A wash of Railmatch sleeper grime would have been applied when everything was dry.

Terry Bendall

[tmcsean]

I'm enjoying this interesting topic because one of my future planned wagon building projects is a BR brake van using the Airfix body/Dave Bradwell underframe combination. So I'm interested in photographs of brake vans on Southern Region in the late 1950s/early 1960s and photos that show the ducket in close-up and the way the horizontal handrail is fixed on to the body below the ducket.

The other thing I'd like to find out is whether the concrete weighting was left unpainted or actually painted bauxite.

A lot of the photos I have seen show that the unpainted concrete surface was often discoloured by patches of some sort of moss. The colour presentation isn't clear and reliable but seems to be a darkinh green/brown. With steam-era wagons you can never say never, but I think it is highly likely that the only bauxite concrete platforms were outshopped by Hornby.

Tony

[Noel]

The other thing I'd like to find out is whether the concrete weighting was left unpainted or actually painted bauxite.

What I forgot to mention earlier was that some BR brake vans were unfitted, and were grey therefore

[Terry Bendall]

A lot of the photos I have seen show that the unpainted concrete surface was often discoloured by patches of some sort of moss

This could well be possible although a quick scan of Paul Bartlett's site does not show firm evidence of moss. The angle of many of the pictures means that the top surface of the ballast weights cannot be seen but there was a wide variation of colours caused by weaathering.

Terry Bendall

[Daddyman]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswis ... /lightbox/

[bécasse]

Brake block dust is likely to have been a significant contributor to weathering effects on the top of the concrete ballast weights, just as it was to Southern concrete platform panels.

[Noel]

Brake block dust is likely to have been a significant contributor to weathering effects on the top of the concrete ballast weights, just as it was to Southern concrete platform panels.

Surely atmospheric pollution, deposited by the rain, in the days of coal fired just about everything plus millions of domestic fires, plus the chemical changes to the pigment involved in bauxite paint, would have been far more significant causes? Grey wooden vehicles did not weather in the same way, nor to the same extent, which strongly suggests that the last of these factors may have been the most important.

[bécasse]

Brake block dust is likely to have been a significant contributor to weathering effects on the top of the concrete ballast weights, just as it was to Southern concrete platform panels.

Surely atmospheric pollution, deposited by the rain, in the days of coal fired just about everything plus millions of domestic fires, plus the chemical changes to the pigment involved in bauxite paint, would have been far more significant causes? Grey wooden vehicles did not weather in the same way, nor to the same extent, which strongly suggests that the last of these factors may have been the most important.

I was specifically referring to the weathering effects on the top surface of the unpainted concrete weighting blocks. The ferrous dust from the brake blocks would settle within the surface pores of the concrete. Acid rain would then expedite the oxidising process which resulted in subtle rust effects, perhaps best reproduced using powders. The surface pores of the concrete would also provide a convivial home for lichens, some of which may well have contributed to the green tints mentioned earlier in the thread.

The lichen effect can be seen on just about any outdoor horizontal concrete surface but the rust effects are dependent on a source of fine ferrous dust and are thus rare away from the railway of yesteryear.

[davebradwell]

Perhaps go easy on the lichens and some mosses on steam-era models - aren't they a sign of clean, unpolluted, air?

DaveB

[johndarch]

Absolutely!

[tmcsean]

Perhaps go easy on the lichens and some mosses on steam-era models - aren't they a sign of clean, unpolluted, air?

DaveB

That's true - must have been stains rather than Mother Nature

Tony

[Daddyman]

Blue-diesel era, but...

Screenshot (399).jpg

[bécasse]

The coloration of the wooden longitudinal steps shows up nicely in that photo too, especially contrasting with the bauxite colouring of the van's paintwork.

[Daddyman]

The coloration of the wooden longitudinal steps shows up nicely in that photo too, especially contrasting with the bauxite colouring of the van's paintwork.

Yes, though most photos show the steps and ends to be in a very similar colour.

Re moss, I've only ever seen it on abandoned vehicles left in sidings, not on in-service stock - a rolling stone and all that...

[Noel]

especially contrasting with the bauxite colouring of the van's paintwork.

The van has roller bearings, Oleo buffers, is piped [at least] for air brake, but not for vacuum, and has boxed data panels, while the loco is from the series built in 1966-68, has the 4-character headcode panel set to two dots, and is carrying at least one boxed headlight, so the photo is mid-1970s or later. It is highly likely, therefore, that the base colour of the van is 1960s-1970s Freight Brown, which was much darker than Bauxite when new, and weathered rather differently.

[Daddyman]

so the photo is mid-1970s or later

Not mid-70s with the loco fitted with a high-intensity headlight. Actually September 1986.

[Porcy Mane]

Gents,

Regarding the query of Bauxite painted concrete on the end platforms; I have seen one photograph of painted concrete. Taken from an elevated position, it is a 1967 picture of a brake being banked up the Lickey. The number is unreadable due to the three quarter angle view. The brake looks to be recently out-shopped from overhaul being freshly painted and has bauxite solebars but more unusually the sides steps and brackets are also in bauxite (to be strictly correct,I should be saying, "freight brown" with the image being taken in 1967).

I can't post the image as I'm not sure of its providence.

I do have distinct memories of seeing staining of the concrete due to guards emptying the dregs of their tea out over the end platforms and from iron oxides leaching through the concrete from below. (From scrap iron mixed in with the concrete?)

These images of concrete may be of interest.

ConcreteGravelMixEndPlat.jpg

From Arnie Furniss's Flickr page. A good source of brake van photographs.

View from front of Brake Van by Arnie Furniss, on Flickr

B954937 Dave B: note it's a BV with end platforms extended to the end using timber infill I mentioned earlier. I have phots of B954935 & 6 both of which have standard ends.

B954937-FlushTimbInfill.jpg

B954937 has been preserved and has retained the timber infill at one end. The concrete has also been painted.

BR Guards Van at Hayes Knoll by dave, on Flickr

P

[Martin Kelly]

I'm gradually collecting together all the bits and pieces I'll need to build a BR standard brake van. I've now reached the stage of thinking about decals and I haven't had much success in locating something suitable. My target period is late-1950s/early-1960s and I'd prefer to model a vehicle allocated to Southern Region.

There are some Southern Region specific markings like the "SOUTHERN" or "SOUTHERN REGION" wording that appeared below the running number and a route restriction inscription that was sometimes painted on the van sides which read "NOT TO WORK BETWEEN TONBRIDGE AND WEST ST. LEONARDS VIA BATTLE". Now I accept that I'm unlikely to find commercially available decals to cover such highly specific details but it seems hard to even find decals on a single sheet for the more universal markings so any leads are welcome plus suggestions for how/where I could get custom decals made for the more obscure markings.