Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Help and advice for those starting in, or converting to P4 standards. A place to share modelling as a beginner in P4.
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Hardwicke
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Hardwicke » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:53 am

In the current climate I still have to work. Perils of working for the emergency services. At least I'm safe.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Neil Smith
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Neil Smith » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:09 pm

Thank you Hardwicke - would not expect any access to any heritage site.

I now have THREE different types of etched bogie to build for what is becoming quite a comparative trial...! And given that I started my first ever etched kit this week (a Brassmasters wagon underframe that I wanted to do as a trial run before taking a deep breath and starting on the bogies) this is going to be quite a learning curve! As and when there is progress, I will report.

All the best

Neil

PS also still working... "key worker" at BBC - thankfully being kept safe.

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Hardwicke
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:09 am

To show I have done some modelling here is a Ratio Midland Clerestory I painted and lined a while ago. Awaiting Society bogies with springy beams.
20200331_005303.jpg


20200331_005159.jpg
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Neil Smith
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriages

Postby Neil Smith » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:18 am

Hardwicke wrote:To show I have done some modelling here is a Ratio Midland Clerestory I painted and lined a while ago. Awaiting Society bogies with springy beams. 20200331_005303.jpg

20200331_005159.jpg


Ooh that's something to aim at! Thank you for sharing!

I am unfortunately making my life hard by retrofitting the windows above the droplights which the LMS replaced with vents (and which is what the Ratio model portrays) as I am after the MR look. I am still working on getting a good square opening... (Maybe the higher spec needle file I have on order will help as the ahem B&Q set I have are not very square on their corners.)

Any tips pls anyone? Maybe I should have left it with the ventilators in, but it would always annoy me I fear..

All the best

Neil

PS changed the title of the thread now I have wandered off bogies (for now)..

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Hardwicke
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:36 pm

Use a triangular file. Takes a bit longer but you can get a sharper corner.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Hardwicke » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:37 pm

Oh I wish I'd noticed about the vents. I've a few more to build. I might attempt them...
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Hardwicke » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:55 pm

When I bought the Wild Swan coach books I knew a lot less about railways than I do now. There are large gaps in the narrative. Jumping from the early 1920's to "none survived into nationalisation", shows what the book is. A skim over the surface. No disrespect to Wild Swan as I'm sure they would have liked to have produced more books for us to buy. There is no mention (as far as I can see) about the vents replacing glass.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

PhilipT
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby PhilipT » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:14 pm

"A skim over the surface" may be your opinion but I feel it does a grave disservice to the work of two highly respected authors. The 500 pages and more than 650 illustrations in those two volumes are hardly a skim, they are a serious history of Midland Railway Carriages which, on 31 December 1922, became LMS Railway Coaches. Yes, there is little by way of treatment of later years beyond the withdrawal dates in the Appendices but the MR years are what the book is about and it is invaluable - we are highly unlikely to get a better treatise on this subject. I also doubt that we will get the detail of 1923 onwards that you seek.

Phil Tattershall

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Neil Smith
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Neil Smith » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:22 pm

To be fair to the Wild Swan "Midland Railway Carriages" books they are indeed that, not LMS Carriages books, though yes Volume 1 (the relevant one for the Clayton square panel 48' clerestories and the book I have) does tend to tell more of the full life story of only some of the different lots/diagrams.

Hardwicke, I was first alerted to the issue about the ventilators having done a search on RMWeb and come across the following thread:
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... ent-394390

Whilst I have not seen any definitive reference to the change, it is clear from the original drawings, which are reproduced on pages 146 and 147 of Vol 1, and indeed all the photos in this chapter, that the carriages originally had windows above the droplights in MR days. I am afraid that as my personal interest in these carriages for my potential layout is strictly pre-1923, I didn't bother with any further effort to understand when the ventilators might have been introduced.

Talking of Wild Swan, the above thread also includes the following reference: "The 4mm Coach Part 1 by Stephen Williams has a whole chapter on building, detailing and painting one of these kits and includes a number of photographs in LMS and Midland livery." Again I do not have this book in my collection (yet..) so cannot comment further on the usefulness of this.

Finally, Hardwicke, many apologies that I never replied to your earlier very helpful observation about triangular files. Thank you - I did try that but with the previously mentioned cheapo needle files I currently own, the triangular one is too "fat" and the half moon, which otherwise ought to be ideal as it is very slender, unfortunately is not flat on its err flat face, meaning it is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard for accurately filing into a corner. I have a better file on order...

All the best

Neil

dal-t
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby dal-t » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:27 am

Oh drat, wish I'd read that bit about the ventilators earlier (like about six years earlier!). I've got a batch of clerestories in build (yes, they've really been on the go that long - other projects, mostly with wings and pointy noses, have forced them into the layby siding) and they're meant to be finished as pre-Grouping examples. Now I'll have to wrestle with my conscience over whether to leave them as is or get the micro drills and fresh scalpel blades out. I wonder how well Precision MR red 'touches in' that long after?
David L-T

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PeteT
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby PeteT » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:05 pm

Neil Smith wrote:Talking of Wild Swan, the above thread also includes the following reference: "The 4mm Coach Part 1 by Stephen Williams has a whole chapter on building, detailing and painting one of these kits and includes a number of photographs in LMS and Midland livery." Again I do not have this book in my collection (yet..) so cannot comment further on the usefulness of this.


It is interesting in covering quite a few upgrade options, and has a good prototype photo of the roof (in LMS days) detail alongside some GAs.

All it mentions about the vents is "The LMS modified these coaches by fitting ventilator hoods in lieu of the door toplights and it is in this form that the Ratio model is presented".

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Neil Smith
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Re: Ratio Midland Carriage bogies

Postby Neil Smith » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:12 pm

Thanks Pete for filling in the gap for me. I feel a bit of a fraud referring to books not in my possession...!

All the best

Neil


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