West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

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Allan Goodwillie
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West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:55 pm

SHED1.JPG


As most people are busy finishing off locos etc. over the holidays and trying out their design skills using Templot, I thought I would put up the West Group's track making course which I did with them some time ago before we started our extension to Calderside. I made up a number of PDFs which I thought could be useful and which they could unload and use at home as well as running three practical sessions. I am sure you will be pleased to know that the track they made was successful and is now in use on their Calderside layout. The track making course was prescriptive, but here I would suggest what is covered is more descriptive as there are many other techniques which can be employed to make successful track. There are also many useful strands already available on the forum for further reading, this is just what the group covered and what we might use for the Starters Group meetings as they will have access to samples made by myself and others within the group, including Phil who brought along a cross-over he had built for Calderside and Bruce who had made up one of the beautiful kits now available.

The West Group's new extension included colliery track and the first of the series of PDFs covers samples taken from the Wemyss system in Fife. I am building a new layout based on the Wemyss Private Railway specifically for exhibition work to replace Dubbieside when it retires from the scene. The first PDF shows just how varied the track was within a small area. I will be covering my own new layout if there proves to be enough interest in it elsewhere on the forum. The photographs are taken from the Canmore.org.uk website, which if you are a Scottish modeller has much to offer - all free access and I would highly recommend it. There are photographs from many periods and the Wemyss ones here show the quality of what is available.

Once you have started to plan a railway a track diagram is essential and photographs of the actual track are important - as much of the site will be dominated by the look and feel of the track and that will give "character" to the railway. There have been some lovely examples in the Snooze in recent years as more and more attention is given to the subject.

The Wemyss Private system had superior track to the NCB part of the railway, but both had some dodgy areas, particularly leading down to the workshops. (See photograph at the head of the thread). The BR Buckhaven branch which ran alongside was superior to both as would be expected, but I will be looking at that later. Meantime here is the PDF for the exchange yard track as an inspiration for the West Groups colliery yard. Incidently British Railways Bylines has articles on the WPR during June /July 2017 with some lovely photographs. :)

You will notice that some of the track looks distinctly dodgy, but industrial track was given a hard time, but with low speeds was safe enough, although derailments did happen from time to time due to the quality of track. The Wemyss system seems to have operated safely for many years and was in better fettle than the NCB track which met it here and there. When I built Dubbieside I built in one or two humps, bumps and kinks as dockland lines were equally "characterful" - in Dundee docks the Y9's often strayed off the intended path and over the years had developed their own grooves to run along as an alternative track, without any real mishaps occurring there either. - something I wish I had a photograph of now!

I will space out the PDFs over the summer as it will allow space for comment and discussion on the forum as people add what they know and pass on information

Colliery Track.pdf
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LesGros
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby LesGros » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:43 pm

Allan,
:thumb
LesG

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never made anything useful

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Thanks Les, :)

Before going on to the course that was run for the West Scotland 4mm Group, I thought I would put up one or two things which our Starters Group and others just starting, might find useful. We have been looking at Templot as a useful tool at a recent meeting thanks to Fergus who did the drawings during the planning stages of Burntisland. It is intended to follow this up in later meetings, but equally I do understand that it is not everyone who wants to spend time learning yet more computer skills. :(

After discussion and comments made I thought it might be useful to put up an alternative here which has been around for a long time. Not everyone when starting goes through the old P4 Society information leaflets which are available elsewhere on the Scalefour Society website, so I have put the notes on using planning templates here and have also made available the original miniature templates (or at least the ones which I still have in my ancient :cry: collection)

The miniature templates are very easy to print and use and take up little learning time as well as having other possible uses which I have suggested on the PDF. ;)

One of the big positives of Templot is that it allows printing at full size using specialised equipment which is very useful I know. If you are really into Templot these mini templates may be considered old fashioned, but they are easy and quick to use and a very practical alternative and I hope useful to those who have not come across them before. :thumb

I have also put on the PDF the Templot web address as well as other info for everyone to find, there is plenty of info on how to use Martin Wynne's Templot here http://www.templot.com/martweb/templot.htm

(I am sure he will not mind me pointing others in the direction of his web site,)

If you prefer to use the miniatures here they are :) -

Point miniatures.pdf
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iak
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby iak » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:36 pm

Wonderful thread :thumb
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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LesGros
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby LesGros » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:03 pm

Allan Goodwillie wrote:
... The miniature templates are very easy to print and use and take up little learning time as well as having other possible uses which I have suggested on the PDF. ;)

One of the big positives of Templot is that it allows printing Templates at full size using specialised equipment which is very useful I know. If you are really into Templot these mini templates may be considered old fashioned, but they are easy and quick to use and a very practical alternative and I hope useful to those who have not come across them before. :thumb ...

Hi Allan,
As you explain, the use of small scale cut-out cards provides a very handy tool for deciding how best to use available space; I have used the method when planning the disposition of furniture before moving into a new house. (I had to that rather often during 33years in the RAF).

As Martin points out in his documentation, Templot is intended for track building, rather than layout design. However, Templot allows printed output to pdf, so it could be used to produce a bespoke set of scale templates for this sort of " Shuffle-the-bits" exercise, and at whatever out-put scale suits best for your layout design process. Complex formation templates eg. Multi way points and Slips, do not need to be fully detailed for such basic design exercises to work effectively.

Such an enterprise could be achieved at a very early stage of learning Templot; Martin's initial tutorials on how to make, and print templates, are excellent, and easy to follow. Thus, a few hours preliminary work could, not only provide a useful set of small-scale templates but, also, provide a useful foundation learning-exercise; before moving on to the more advanced Templot functions later, if so desired.

Cheerydoo,
LesG

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never made anything useful

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:15 pm

Hi Les, :D

Maybe someone has done this already. We shall see what this thread brings. I am trying to get all the PDFs together within a fairly short time so that the Group have the information at their fingertips and others can use it as well rather than spin it out over a long period. It is a bit of an experiment really. :idea: :?:

Obviously it does mean that you have to download the PDFs to ascertain whether there is anything of real use, but it is easy to throw them away again if they are no longer of use. I have had so many tell me that they have printed out entire threads from the forum that I thought it would be an advantage perhaps to do this with the course. The first and second cover things that have been available, but are of use during the construction of a new layout.

The first contains information on how to print out the mini templates and shows how they are used based on the original notes. It also includes a suggestion on how to use them to establish operation and capacity. The templates can be used to calculate sleeper numbers and work out wiring plans as well as baseboard structures.

The second here covers the original track making info for building riveted track and an introduction to the course. Nothing too exciting really, but I wanted to put everything close together on the thread. I am hoping to put most of the other ones up over the next week, if I can find the time.

Tomorrow will yet again be spent moving Burntisland along to Blackburn from Livingston and assembling it for 6-7 weeks work on it over the summer. In 15 years or so I think I have only twice been unable to be here for its uplift and return to Livingston. Originally I could put the entire layout in the back of my Micra and take it up to Dechmont and back when we were first working on it. Over the last ten years we have needed Richard Darby's trailer and it has gone beyond that in recent times as the engine shed has been added! I have calculated that over the years I have been involved with 170-180 assembly and breakdowns of the layout - that's an lot of time and effort spent - there is a real art in loading and unloading.

Here is the third PDF.

Original P4 Trackmaking instructions.pdf
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:16 pm

Now we are moving on to the track making course proper - maybe a bit more can be said about the preparation of the template here. :)

1) I always print up my templates first and make sure they are printed to the correct size, even if it means one or two rejects. :cry: Start with something that is accurate, it is absolutely necessary as all your measurements will be taken from it. You want to finish up with points that are accurate - so no "near-lies". :thumb

DSC04978.JPG
The template attached to the base


2) I make up a base to build the track upon - I have used all sorts of ideas in the past to make sure the base is flat, level, however in recent years I now make a sandwich of polyboard / 3mm MDF / polyboard. The polyboard is available from Hobby, Art and craft shops and the 3mm MDF is the type picture framers use - you can tell what my background occupation is! Either use double sided tape to stick it all down or a good spray glue like Photomount or similar. Do not use a water based glue as it will expand the paper template. I normally put a left hand point on one side and a right hander on the other. The sample one here is just one sided and that is what the West Group members used. - The reason for using the polyboard will become evident when we start to make the points.

DSC04982.JPG
Marking out the necessary information using felt tip pens


3) Mark out on to the template what is necessary using felt tip pens. Mark where bonding strip, wiring points etc. are required.

4) If it is planned to make a number of points of the same size then cover the template using either a layer of sticky backed acetate that libraries use to cover book covers or a layer of thin acetate sheet stuck down with double sided tape - make sure the surface of the template is well covered by the tape as you do not want it coming apart at a later date. Make sure the tape does not overlap as you want the top surface to be as perfectly flat as possible.

5) Unusually, I tend to cut all my rails first, however I think it is easier this way when you can see the diagram without the sleepers on. I also make up my crossing V and plane my point blades - see instructions already provided for making them as well as viewing this PDF.

So here is the PDF covering the making of the template and cutting and preparing the rail. :)

Making points part 1 template and rails.pdf
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:20 pm

The next step is to prepare the timbers and mark out where the rivets are going to be as well as fitting bonding strips and droppers. :)

DSC05021.JPG
Starting to mark out the sleepers


As a point of interest, there has been some discussion elsewhere and it was brought up on the course, that there have been examples of riveted track having bonding troubles long term. This was when the rivets were coated with tin and the coating could, on some layout.s separate from the rivet - due probably to the long term effects of flux. On Dubbieside I have never had this as a problem, but within a short time of laying the track I fitted white metal chairs which Ian Middleditch used to produce for us in the West Group. We had chairs years before the folks down south. Adding the chairs with white glue seems to have had a preserving effect on the track which still runs well 45 years later. I notice that there is now a spray available to counteract flux, but I have not used it myself yet.

DSC05031.JPG
Setting up the punch tool on the block to make it easier to see just what you are doing


Another point of interest might be the use / or not of steel rail :( - I recommended not using it when we were building Burntisland, but was countermanded by the committee as they thought it would be the better option as it looked more like the real thing. (I was the only one who had had some experience of using it.) I feel there are far too many problems with it and could go deeper into this if we should wish to discuss it. A far better option now is to use the high nickel N/S rail which is now available, (which I can recommend highly, but is slightly more expensive) - it cuts and behaves like N/S rail yet has the look of steel without the problems of rusting and trying to re-solder when things require it. Ordinary N/S track I think is better than steel, so if you can't get the high nickel from C&L (which is under new management) then go for the ordinary N/S for reliability - especially if your storage space is perhaps a little damp or if you intend using your layout for exhibitions. :idea:

The West Group had enough presses available for doing the work, but they are not always available from the Society as it would seem that most modellers are moving towards point kits - something which I will come back to later - however, if you can't get one, do not worry as it is possible to buy a set of jewellers punch pliers (1mm punch) for a few pounds off the internet as well as parallel pliers to close the rivets, or a small vice with flat jaws, or pin hammer and small anvil. All of which are perfectly serviceable. ;)

The punch and closure tool (above) I have had for many years and it does not need to have the heads changed for each operation - however I do not know where it was purchased it was so long ago! The old Studiolith ones come up occasionally - if you get the chance of one buy it - the MK2 version also made a pretty good wheel press

So here we have the second of the PDFs covering the sleeper preparation. ;)

Making points Part 2 preparation of the timbers.pdf
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Russ Elliott
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Russ Elliott » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Reference "There is the chance of the droppers interfering with the levelness of the rail, so I prefer to leave them off at this time", how thick is that copper 'Wiring Connector Strip'? I'm probably pre-empting the next pdf installment, but all that filing down of the underside of the timber and the reliance on soldering copper to (what looks like a) steel rivet, and then bonding to the copper strip, and digging troughs for the strip in the trackbed, seems a tad excessive.

Bits of thin TCW do the job rather quicker in my view (although they too need some planning ahead for their feed holes).

But I'm carping unnecessarily - this is all very thorough and excellent stuff, Allan.

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Martin Wynne
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Martin Wynne » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:23 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:If you prefer to use the miniatures here they are :) -
Point miniatures.pdf

Hi Allan,

You can easily print mini-templates from Templot. This means you have an infinite range of sizes and radii to work with. Especially useful for curved turnouts.

output > enlarge/reduce size for print, PDF, DXF > menu options.

1/3rd (33.33%) or 1/4 (25%) are useful sizes.

regards,

Martin.
40 years developing Templot. And counting ...

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:51 am

Hi Russ and Martin, :)

How thick is that copper 'Wiring Connector Strip'? I'm probably pre-empting the next pdf instalment, but all that filing down of the underside of the timber and the reliance on soldering copper to (what looks like a) steel rivet, and then bonding to the copper strip, and digging troughs for the strip in the trackbed, seems a tad excessive.


The answer is that it is very thin, I just take the bottom level off the sleeper which is three ply, the rivets are brass and solder very easily and are very permanent once done. I do check that the solder does not come below the base level of the sleeper and file carefully back if necessary. The dropper brass strip I am using for the droppers was something which was available many years ago from Studiolith, again it is thinner than the bottom layer of ply sleeper.

The relatively new dropper strips from Palatine Models will also do exactly the same here is where I guide folks to the stores-

RD.jpg
RD.jpg (23.51 KiB) Viewed 5362 times


Rail droppers, fret of 50 (Palatine Models) - £3.50 per fret

They are fitted in much the same way - the rivet and sleeper fitted at one end and the wire coming from the power source being soldered on to the other end. It is recommended that pairs of sleepers are done just in case of failure, however I have used this method for about 45 years now and never had one fail yet so I can recommend this. At £3.50 per fret I think it is good value and will give a good reliable connection. I am sure Jeremy will be happy with the sales pitch! :)

There is no digging down of troughs necessary, as you will discover as the thread moves on and although the sleeper may feel a little fragile it s only temporary as it will be stuck down with glue and become very permanent indeed. If you should be a bit heavy handed closing up the rivet, it may distort the sleeper, but it takes no time at all to produce another one, although once you get your hand in, you will quickly get to know the right pressure and this sort of thing will seldom happen. ;)

Coming back to troughs, etc. the general principle of this method of track construction is that the track is made with a perfectly flat base and will be laid on a perfectly flat surface. The top surface of the rail will also be level with no dips at crossing Vs or point blades or gains in height with wing rails and check rails. I will be looking at more advanced versions for those beginners who want to do elevation of track etc., but for the starters group I want to make sure they have success first time without it costing a fortune. We will get around to looking at points using plastic chairs and wooden sleepers as well as rivets in key places, again a bit further down the line. I am hoping the group will simply add to their experience and try out some of these things in a helpful environment. It is interesting that the West Group members who all built at least two points for the new extension have all been successful with their efforts and are now having a go at using other components with confidence now they know what to look for when they are making track. They don't need me now - which was the intention of running the course :!:

It is the same with the Starters Group, I am assuming that within a few years we will have a number of layouts built and being built which will give them all some satisfaction as well as extending the experience available within the East and West Scotland Groups. We are very lucky in having some good specialised experience available within the group and also outside the group to be able to call on.

Martin, could I also thank you for pointing the way, not just to the members of the Starters Group who would like to use Templot but, to others who already use the program and maybe up to now have not considered using the program in this way. I am sure there will still be some who will simply pick up and use the templates I am providing here, but I know how much time you must have spent on the program and for those who are learning to use it it will be an added incentive and bonus to be able to do as you have suggested. :)

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:13 pm

Now for soldering up. :) Since we are using the rivets and timbers for construction the rail will be held vertically throughout. The reason I am mentioning it is that with most of the point kits the rail is held at an angle.

DSC05053.JPG
Laying the rails on a full timbered point


We will look at other building techniques using plastic chairs with wooden sleepers later, but for now we are keeping it simple and straightforward. It also means that there should be no problems with gauges. The reason I mention this is that I have heard a number of tales and even on the forum there has been some questioning of the three point gauge available through the Society. :o I think that most of the problems have been encountered when the points being constructed are being built using individual plastic chairs holding the rail on to the sleepers either plastic or wood. Most of the gauges will hold the rail vertical and of course when the gauge is pulled away the chair then takes over and sets the rail at the angle which then makes the rails tight to gauge. :cry: I do not want to get tied up in that area as I know it will be controversial, but I promise to come back to it later.

Now you may say "Surely I am looking for something which is all right and it does not sound as if my track will look 100% correct if the rails are upright throughout" or something similar, however real points are vertical in places and at an angle in other places - so a bit more subtle really and I will show some techniques which will allow you to build them that way a bit further down the line. There are many variations in chair design when you start to look from company to company and we are very very far from having every type produced available over the counter - we are lucky that the kit companies have been willing to at least produce some of the basic variations and make them available.

I am more intent at this stage to make sure you get good working points. The majority of people will never notice whether there are chairs missing here or there (different if taking photographs), but if your stock keeps coming off all over the place you will not feel very satisfied with your layout no matter how well the scenery or trains look. :cry: You are building the bedrock when building baseboards and track - time and care taken will pay dividends over and over again. :D

DSC05063.JPG
Test with a vehicle (preferably uncompensated) before fitting check rails


Now there is a question about whether to add some gauge widening or not. I would suggest that there is nothing essentially wrong with doing this through the middle of the curve, but it must not happen anywhere near the crossing V otherwise it will have a detrimental effect on the spacings of wing rails and check gauges. Similarly I would keep away from trying to do that within the point blade area. Where gauge widening comes in automatically (as far as gauges go) is with the use of the three point gauge, which is supposed to automatically do the job.

On shorter points I do add a little gauge widening to allow some of the bigger engines a bit more margin on the points. Then again if you have read the engine building thread you will know that I also allow a bit more margin and flexibility in the chassis if possible. Easier building in at this stage, than trying to do it later, although not impossible, if using rivets throughout on the points.

Most people do not realise that for most companies the section through the V is straight on both sides of the V. (The GWR however was different and did have points with continuous curves - I have never had to build any like that so info on how to do that will have to be elsewhere - sorry if you are building the GWR.)

The soldering up of all this comes in two sections covering firstly, a point with full length sleepers then secondly one with interlaced sleepers to show how these are constructed and to draw attention to what is required for a point to behave properly.

Making points Part 3 laying the rails.pdf
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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:47 pm

Here is the last part of the series of PDFs looking at track made using rivets throughout. There will be further PDFs using other components to come. This concludes what was done on the course. We had three evenings on construction techniques with everyone taking their points home between times and working on them to achieve the three stages each one ready for the next meeting and time given at the end to complete them prior to laying them on the new section of Calderside.

DSC05096.JPG
interlaced point under construction


It would be a good idea :idea: for someone who has experience of the various new gauges, (including the three point gauge) that have been produced in recent years to show how they are all used - all on one place either in the forum, or elsewhere on the site - there are quite a number of items which have no information about their use on sale and the only information being a photo - I am sure there would be more sales of these items if this were the case.

The lack of punches and riveters is regrettable however as mentioned before there are alternatives.

Here are the interlaced point construction notes- :thumb

Making points part 4 interlaced points.pdf
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby JinglingGeordie » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:11 pm

[quote="Russ Elliott"]Reference

Bits of thin TCW do the job rather quicker in my view (although they too need some planning ahead for their feed holes).

What is TCW?

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Will L
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Will L » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:15 pm

TCW = Tinned Copper Wire

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:33 pm

Thanks Will, :)

Tinned copper wire is a very useful item to have and is perfectly sound for making droppers. As a material it is probably better to curve it rather than putting in right angle bends as sometimes it can be brittle. If used as droppers most users put in a simple loop to overcome any effect of the wire expanding due to heat and putting pressure on the underside of the rail - which can cause lifting if the track is not properly stuck down and ballasted - I have come across this many years ago with a 00 club layout that was being built.

Tinned copper wire was also commonly used to take away excess solder before solder wicks. :)


I know my own method is a bit belt and braces, but I have never had a failure doing it this way and you want to make sure that when you are doing items that are going to be hidden, that they work 100%. :|

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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:07 am

Allan Goodwillie wrote:however real points are vertical in places and at an angle in other places


A little bit of time to look back on Allan's very useful thread and the above quote caught my eye and lead me to look up the relevant chapter in my copy of British Railway Track - design, construction and maintenance. My copy was published in 1971 and bought second hand a few years back and is a mine of useful information. The quote is for flat bottom rail turnouts so it may be a bit different for those made using bull head rail but the information may be useful.

""The flat bottom switch rails are mounted vertically for the full moveable length to enable them to move laterally in a correct way on the slide baseplates. At the end of the movable length each switch rail is twisted to an inclination of 1 in 20, the line of he running edge being carefully maintained. This full twist is accomplished in a length of about 380mm between two consecutive baseplates. The stock and closure rails are set at an inclination of 1 in 20 throughout their length."

Whether or not anyone wants to go to these lengths is of course up to the individual and getting it correct could be a challenge :) For most people getting turnouts that work successfully every time with all your stock will I think be quite sufficient.! :D

Terry Bendall

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:57 pm

Hi Terry, :)

Thanks for that bit of information. I should have made that clearer, I do apologise. In my discussions with Richard Chown over the years It has been amazing just what I have picked up. You are right about it being about flat bottom track, but I am sure he mentioned there were examples in bullhead as well, but of that I am not entirely certain and of course, sadly I can no longer just give Richard a quick ring and do a check as he is no longer with us. I will miss him as his knowledge was encyclopedic and his modelling just totally inspiring. He was also a dear family friend and much loved and missed by us all. :cry:

Richard has completed a new book on track and I hope we see it published as he has spent much time on the preparation. Dave and I were out taking photographs with him down on his patch on the East Coast main line. We had a great day out in beautiful sunshine and Dave managed to get exactly the image Richard wanted for the front of the book. We drove home and stopped off at an interesting house in the country on an estate where he and his wife had first set up home and we had fish and chips and ice cream down by the sea before returning home again. I will miss travelling to exhibitions with him as he hated motorways and had a wonderful knowledge of all the things worth stopping for and great places to eat - it was always an education in great company. A more generous and kinder person you could not meet.

I don't know if you have noticed, but I have been posting info on my new layout as it is being built - it is to be at Glasgow in February as a work in progress. :)

You will find it in the workbench area at https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=5510

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West Lothian Starters Group Track making notes based on West Scotland Group track making course

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:18 pm

The Starter's Group will have a stand at Scalefourum this weekend so if you want to see some of the progress being made come along and have a chat. I will also bring along some of my baseboards and stock for the Wemyss layout and Phil is making and displaying some of his Milngavie layout as well as bringing Chris Gough's layout which is nearing completion - we are all close together at the show and happy to talk about what we are doing and discuss why it might be a good idea to get your own starters group together to get some new layouts built.

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A photograph of some of those who turned up to a recent group meeting at David Orr's house


Left to right-

Dave Goodwillie,Bruce Neil, David Orr, Ian Terrel, Chris Gough(and yes we do smile and laugh a lot!) -photo - Allan Goodwillie :D


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