Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

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steamraiser
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Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby steamraiser » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:18 pm

How interested would you folks be in an inside springing unit for RTR 00 4 wheel wagons and possible kits that have already been built with 00 wheels?

Gordon A

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John Donnelly
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby John Donnelly » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:20 pm

So far, I've not sprung any of my RTR 4 wheel wagon conversions but, if it was a simple retro fit then I'd certainly be interested.

John

chrisf

Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby chrisf » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:25 pm

Very!

Chris

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ianpenberth
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby ianpenberth » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:29 pm

We already have Mike Clark's 7.05 Universal Springing Unit. What have you in mind?

(Apropos nothing, while looking for Mike's catalogue, I found something else I'd been looking for for ages so, Gordon, many thanks! :D )
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing

David Knight
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby David Knight » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:53 pm

Yes please :thumb

Cheers,

David

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steamraiser
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby steamraiser » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:18 pm

I was not aware of Mike Clarkes unit.
Does any one have any pictures please.

The unit is a retro fit and should fit the Bachman Presflo wagons. I will find out tomorrow.

I am working my way through a variety of manufacturers wagons. So far fitted to Dapol, Bachman and Airfix GMR wagons.

The only special tool is the thingy for opening up wagon axle holes to take pin point bearings.

If I remember I may bring a couple of wagons to Wakefield with me.

Gordon

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ianpenberth
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby ianpenberth » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:33 am

Ah, the unit of Mike's that I mentioned is an inside bearing job - read too much into your OP! However, if you're in to outside pinpoints, his units 7.01 - 7.04 are designed for retro-fit to RTR and kit wagons.

There are also Bradwell's spring plates, written up on this forum here.

Cheers
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing

Tonycardall

Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby Tonycardall » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:11 pm

Yes please!

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ianpenberth
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby ianpenberth » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:37 am

Chapter and verse on Mike's RTR pinpoint units courtesy of Keith at http://www.norgrove.me.uk/masokit3.htm.

Width always an issue - the Bradwells manage to steal another thickness of brass each side.

If you have something that can deal with cases where the floor is moulded to the depth, or partial depth, of the solebar then :thumb

Look forward to seeing you in Wakefield.

Cheers
Ian
PenBits Model Railways - Diesel bogie springing and detailing

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steamraiser
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby steamraiser » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:41 am

Thanks Ian for the link.
I was some what concerned that I was duplicating some one else's design.

I will bring some converted wagons to show you and any one else who is interested.

The only possible major surgery required by my unit is the removal of the moulded auto coupling mounts, for which I use a coping saw followed by a file.

So far running trials have been successful using in most cases no additional weight.
Running trials consist of propelling the wagons around my circular test track, which the BS4 group will tell you is more like a colliery line than a well maintained track.

Gordon

Andrew Ullyott
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby Andrew Ullyott » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:36 pm

I'm interested and I'll see you at Wakefield!

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John Donnelly
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:34 pm

If I knew where to look, I'd be seeing you at Wakefield as well :mrgreen:

John

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steamraiser
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby steamraiser » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:19 pm

If you ask Justin or Paul on Rhymney models to ring me or point me out, we should be able to meet.

Gordon A

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John Donnelly
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:21 pm

Cheers Gordon, I'll be there on Sunday.

John

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:51 am

steamraiser wrote:How interested would you folks be in an inside springing unit for RTR 00 4 wheel wagons and possible kits that have already been built with 00 wheels?

Gordon A


Interested to see new ideas. Photos possible?

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steamraiser
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby steamraiser » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:38 am

As requested some pictures.
P1060209A.jpg

Here is the line up of wagons that I have converted to my springing system so far.
From the pannier:
Dapol 5 plank weighs 38grams with additional weight.
Bachman 16 ton slope sided mineral weighs 47 grams with additional weight.
Airfix GMR Blue Circle box van weighs 44 grams.
Dapol Charlton Brewery box van weighs 30 grams.
Bachman Presflo weighs 25 grams.
Dapol SR box van weighs 31 grams.
Dapol Grain hoppers weigh 36 and 35 grams.
Bachman tanker weighs 35 grams.
All the wagons are riding on top of the springs.
P1060213A.jpg

This picture shows the springing unit as it is now.
I have a few tweaks to do to the design.
P1060211A.jpg

This picture shows the units fitted to one of the Dapol grain wagons.
P1060212A.jpg

This picture is a close up of the grain wagon on the track.
I must give the units a wipe over with a black permanent marker to reduce their visibility.
As I have said I am still testing and evolving the design. I have a Hornby 20 ton hopper wagon and a couple of guards vans to convert plus some ready built kit wagons.
All bar one of the grain wagons is running on phosphor bronze springs, the other grain wagon is running on 8 thou guitar string.
Compared to pin point bearings there is some drag in this system. The pannier which is a Bachman body on a Comet flexi-chas chassis does slip slightly on propelling the nine wagons. All wheels are Gibson.
The idea behind this design is to enable beginners and others to easily spring some rtr stock to have a play with.
The only special tool is the Knowle Wagon Works 2mm brass bearing tool by Tom Silsbury. This tool opens the pinpoint cone into a parallel 2mm hole which gives the axles some limited movement.

I have some more experimentation to do including ballasting the wagons to a consistent weight.

Gordon A
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Last edited by grovenor-2685 on Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to put the pictures in place matching the captions - KN

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Springing RTR 4 wheel wagons

Postby Julian Roberts » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:43 pm

Thanks Gordon.


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