Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:05 pm

DSC_1882.JPG
east side looking from the station approach
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:06 pm

DSC_1883.JPG
East side. New brick wing wall.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:07 pm

DSC_1897.JPG
on the stone loading dock, looking west
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:08 pm

DSC_1901.JPG
Stood in the signal box foundations !
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:12 pm

DSC_1902.JPG
Looking down the banking/hill from the signal box
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm

DSC_1909.JPG
Wooden sleeper built buffer stop.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:14 pm

DSC_1910.JPG
Buffer stop front....somewhere under the ivy !
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:16 pm

DSC_1945.JPG
New and old stone on the loading dock.
Top three courses are the new part.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:18 pm

DSC_1917.JPG
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:33 pm

Thanks Michael ..... fantastic photos .... really appreciated :thumb

You said you had a cast version of the wooden sleeper buffer stop .... you wouldn't happen to have a picture would you?

Maybe I will finally get to make a site visit in the new year. ;)
Tim Lee

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:48 pm

DSC_5563.JPG
master and castings
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:25 pm

I wonder if the buffer stop changed over time?

Here are a couple of details from the 1910 photos .... looks to me more like a coal stathe of sorts for the station.

bufferstop.jpg
bufferstop.jpg (31.3 KiB) Viewed 1982 times
buffer stop 2jpg.jpg
buffer stop 2jpg.jpg (18.34 KiB) Viewed 1982 times


I then have these from the 40s and 50s.

Casserley_15-05-1953 copy.jpeg
Monsal dale station copy.jpg
Monsal dale station copy.jpg (75.05 KiB) Viewed 1982 times
Monsal Dale20160117_10090560 copy 2.jpg
Monsal Dale20160117_10090560 copy 2.jpg (78.34 KiB) Viewed 1981 times

This one suggests that there was a rail bufferstop at one point.

Followed by this from the 1960s where a bufferstop is hard to make out.

Ebay Photo-7.jpg
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Noel » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:51 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:I wonder if the buffer stop changed over time?


It's very difficult to tell, especially given the small size of some of the images. To me, it looks as though all the photos are consistent with the same buffer stop being there in all of them [apart from the last, of course]. The changes in the lighting and running in board are interesting, though. The poster next to the Ladies Room in the fourth one down is for Littlehampton, and dates from 1953 according to the GWRA.
Regards
Noel

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:33 am

Noel wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:I wonder if the buffer stop changed over time?


It's very difficult to tell, especially given the small size of some of the images. To me, it looks as though all the photos are consistent with the same buffer stop being there in all of them [apart from the last, of course]. The changes in the lighting and running in board are interesting, though. The poster next to the Ladies Room in the fourth one down is for Littlehampton, and dates from 1953 according to the GWRA.


Thanks Noel .... esher like, now that you say it I am reading the information differently. On the 3rd and 5th images I was initially reading the white portion below the main bufferstop as the background, but now it appears to be the contents of the stathe?

I had thought that the stathe was independent of the bufferstop which I assumed would have been the standard rail configuration .... however, given Michael's comment about the still extant bufferstop to the headshunt, it suggests that we are also dealing with a sleeper bufferstop at the wharf itself?

This is the best image I can find of the headshut/lie by bufferstop
Siding photo.jpg
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Noel » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:18 pm

Sleeper built buffer stops are basically, so far as I know, an open box filled with old ballast or whatever, and more or less the same height all round? If I'm right about that, I don't think any of the images are consistent with such a buffer stop.

There is also the question of why sleeper built stops at all, when most were rail built. So why was one at the end of the loop? I don't know the answer, but it might have a bearing on what sort was next to the station buildings.
Regards
Noel

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Colin Parks
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Colin Parks » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Hello Tim,

Just throwing my opinion in - for what it is worth re, the bufferstop conundrum. In the series of photographs a rail-built buffer stop is consistently evident up until the 1960s' view, where the running board has been changed and moved further back from the main line. It does look like a staithe- or some such structure, was built onto the back of the bufferstop, as seen in the 1910 photographs, but this feature was gone by the 1940s.

The 60s' view shows the running board support nearest the camera would appear to immediately behind the wooden cross-beam of the buffer stop. Are those two dark marks the result of wagon buffers having come into contact with the beam over time? I wonder. The rest of the buffer stop appears to be have been removed as the height of the beam is far too low to be otherwise.

All the best,

Colin

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:09 pm

Colin Parks wrote:Hello Tim,

Just throwing my opinion in - for what it is worth re, the bufferstop conundrum. In the series of photographs a rail-built buffer stop is consistently evident up until the 1960s' view, where the running board has been changed and moved further back from the main line. It does look like a staithe- or some such structure, was built onto the back of the bufferstop, as seen in the 1910 photographs, but this feature was gone by the 1940s.

The 60s' view shows the running board support nearest the camera would appear to immediately behind the wooden cross-beam of the buffer stop. Are those two dark marks the result of wagon buffers having come into contact with the beam over time? I wonder. The rest of the buffer stop appears to be have been removed as the height of the beam is far too low to be otherwise.

All the best,

Colin

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the thoughts.

I am going to stick my neck out a little here. I think the bufferstop position changed between the 1910 pictures and the post WWII pictures. The earlier photos show a small office beyond the station building .... I assume connected with the wharf. The track is a fair distance beyond this. Here is a picture from the other direction.

Station Platform.jpeg

Midland Official 1910-detail.jpg

Casserley_15-05-1953.jpeg


By the time we get to the 1940s the office has gone and the wharf has been extended I think much further back towards the station. The chain map of the station pre 1914 clearly shows the space to the rear of the buffer .... where as and Bill Hudson's drawing of the station in its later condition from 'Through Limestone Hills' clearly show the track moved close in the the platform toilets.

Monsal Dale two chain plan -detail.jpg

Trackplan.jpeg



If we are talking a standard midland rail bufferstop, the pictures still seem to suggest to me that the buffer itself was timber (a sleeper?) rather than horizontal rail sections?
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Noel » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:11 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:I am going to stick my neck out a little here. I think the bufferstop position changed between the 1910 pictures and the post WWII pictures. The earlier photos show a small office beyond the station building .... I assume connected with the wharf. The track is a fair distance beyond this. Here is a picture from the other direction.


The two maps certainly look as though this is the case, two wagon lengths, maybe? They seem to show differences in the huts as well.
Regards
Noel

dal-t
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby dal-t » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:53 pm

Regarding sleeper-built stops, by coincidence I was exposed to a drawing of one earlier today, which can be found here. I had previously thought the version offered by PECO (which I confess I've used from time to time on 'hidden' sidings) was a work of pure fiction, but perhaps not ...
David L-T

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:13 pm

dal-t wrote:Regarding sleeper-built stops, by coincidence I was exposed to a drawing of one earlier today, which can be found here. I had previously thought the version offered by PECO (which I confess I've used from time to time on 'hidden' sidings) was a work of pure fiction, but perhaps not ...

I like the note 'to be neatly turfed' :D
Tim Lee

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:56 pm

I'm sure I've seen the buffer stops used as a coal stacking area in confined yards before. That would explain what surrounds it. It may have a wooden plank. If only I had seen that plan before building the model. I spent ages pouring over Midland Record and the extant one at Butterley. Plenty still exist in various states of disrepair. There is a photo of a crash allegedly near Hassop, that destroyed the parapet, but I've always wondered if it was Putty Hill bridge at Monsal Dale. The bridge was rebuilt as my photos show and the plans confirm it between the dates.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Hardwicke
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Hardwicke » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:57 pm

I've never seen a stop "neatly turfed" but can confirm they are filled with clinker and loco ash. I guess the Midland had a lot to get rid of.
Builder of Forge Mill Sidings, Kirkcliffe Coking Plant, Swanage and Heaby. Still trying to "Keep the Balance".

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:02 pm

I have been persevering with some wagon scratch building. My next effort is a 3 plank wagon to diagram 305.

3 plank wagon - 5.jpg


I think the result is an improvement on my earlier D299 effort. The planking now all runs parallel, though I think a little more practice with the skrawker is still needed. I have mistakenly placed the number plate and load ticket plate in the positions for the earlier iteration of the wagon and these will need repositioning. I have made some attempt to represent the drop leaf locking mechanism with 0.4 wire and fuse wire for the chain but this is not wholly satisfactory .... any suggestions would be welcomed.

Building wagons like this is quite a therapeutic process .... a nice wind down after a busy day ;) . Hopefully once painted and weathered they will bed in ok. I am thinking of building 4 of these to carry ballast and sleepers pulled by the 1F 0-6-0T complete with ballast brake van running locally up the line ...perhaps to drop off supplies and if necessary a gang or two for maintenance and repairs. :?
Tim Lee

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Flymo748
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:51 pm

I think that you should be very pleased with that indeed!

A lovely level of detailing, and some nice craftsmanship. I particularly like the tapering of the wooden end stanchions.

More of the same please!
Cheers
Flymo
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Making a Start - The Peak District Midland / Monsal Dale pre 1903

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:45 pm

Flymo748 wrote:I think that you should be very pleased with that indeed!

A lovely level of detailing, and some nice craftsmanship. I particularly like the tapering of the wooden end stanchions.

More of the same please!
Cheers
Flymo


Thanks Paul ....Glad you like it. I think I'm slowly getting there. :thumb
Tim Lee


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