West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:12 pm

Having made these checks I turned to making up the side tanks. These are cut out from the sheet using a mix of sharp scissors or using a piercing saw and V cutting block held in a vice, as shown in the first part of the build. The important things at this stage are to make sure that each part fits properly and that parts are finished off properly so that excesss solder does not mean that things do not match up properly. Thinking ahead there is more than one part not on the cutting sheet. The first is the cutout in the tank sides, the other is the inside of the tank on each side. To some it may not be necessary to make the inside of the tank. On the locomotive I am building I feel it would show from certain angles. We will have a look at the real thing later in the series and I hope you agree with me that it is necessary in this case

Important An important technique when soldering this kind of thing together is to use a form of soldering called tack soldering. A tack being a small ball of solder placed to position key points, sometimes quite far apart. This establishes the positions of parts, their squareness and cuts down on expansion problems, especially when using brass where the heat travels longer and faster than when using nickle silver. We have come across this when making up the chassis. THis is where my old wooden soldering block comes in handy.

When I made it up some years ago I made sure it had a couple of stripwood strips or MDF cut square fitted around two of its edges making sure they were at right angles to one another and to the base. You will see just how handy such an item is when building. Perhaps it is about time I made up another new one instead of "old scruffy" although it is perfectly serviceable as is. Remember this is all from my workbench and some of my equipment has been in use for many years. My father was a great one for giving me tools and I have often been given tools along the way by various friends. I am grateful for all such gifts. I could do with a new lathe as my old lathe is beginning to get a bit inaccurate after so many years - more of this later!

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:06 pm

Here are a couple of photos just to show the simple block in all its tattyness :oops: and also the V cutting block held in my vice as well as the piercing saw which I use. The saw allows for breaking blades in that you can still use them and alter the length of the saw a very useful feature :roll: , which also helps to stretch the blade keeping it taught. :idea: This is all very basic I know, neither take long to make and will be constant companions over the years. They will also keep your work bench from damage and will wear out in time. Given the fact that they can be fitted in the vice it means that you can turn your work around and to better angles than if they were fixed on the bench. This is also a good feature of the larger vice I use. Its head can be rotated, if I was to buy a new vice I would probably go for the all singing and dancing ones which also have the ability to hold work at an angle. If you intend doing much scratchbuilding a good vice is essential.


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This is the old block with all its scruffiness and square edges - clearly well used


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Here is the v shaped cutting block. It has a strip of wood on the back to allow me to put it in my vice. The saw lies on top.


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Here we can see the saw in the cutting position, but without any metal being cut. The idea is that the v shape allows support for the sheet metal. As a general rule the thinner the material to be cut the finer the blade used.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Now to some more construction using the block. I use a paper clip which has a good reach and holds the metal tightly against the walls of the block while soldering. Notice the "tacks" holding the pieces of metal together. I am using a 25Watt soldering iron for this job. As the work progresses more and more parts are tacked together and the fit checked. It is possible to tack everything together and if it all fits then it can be soldered more tightly together.

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Here the tank top is being soldered on to the tank side. We are soldering the inside - much easier to clean up later. I have seen some models where the metal was often soldered from the outside and then cleaned up, but difficult to do without taking too much or too little off. The use of the block lends itself to internal soldering as here.


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Here is the side and top of tank after the soldering of the two together. I am checking here that the joint is going to be square - I will use my little 2" square for this, if everything has been properly clamped it should be fine. Since the material has only been tacked then it is possible to un-tack and redo.


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This view shows the front of the tank being fitted and more tacking being added in between the original tacks so it is possible to do this job without a block, but I found early on that working just with a vice could be problematic in that the vice also takes heat away from where you are soldering and in some ways makes the job more difficult.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:29 pm

Back on the block I add other tacks, using nickle silver allows me to place them in between the others without them melting, this can be a bit more tricky with brass as the heat tends to move away from where it is being applied. Tinplate even more so. I do not use tinplate at all now, but have a couple of friends who have used it effectivly - providing every trace of flux has been removed and the model well primed and painted.

I am still using up brass which I bought ages ago :o and of course there are some times when I have found nickle silver tube of the right size unavailable. :cry: I am no purist that way, but N/S is a far better material to play with and takes paint better than brass with its comparativly greasy surface.


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Adding tacks Just to make sure that there is no sudden melt I solder in the middle of the space and then the next middle and the next and so on so no area gets too much heat - this is similar to the advice given about soldering frame parts together to avoid expansion problems. The paper pattern is beginning to peel with the heat.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:52 pm

Next thing to do, once cooled, is to take the soldering iron and blend again I do this a bit at a time and not rush. I try to make the joint as even as possible. If done neatly as above it could be kept just as seen. If you have a grinder and many do have the facility, then it can be made even neater - no one else will probably see it, it does take up a little more time to do, but you may prefer to know that it is finished well inside. Then again thetanks may well be filled with lead and after all the solder has weight anyway.


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A nice neat joint made as the tacks are gradually melted together , just brushing the joint with flux will allow the tacks to melt along the joint and no other solder will be required.
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:44 pm

If you are simply working on the flat then there is another technique you can use using a simple block of wood and a paper clip again used as a clamp. The 2" square is used again. The soldering technique is the same, but using the square to establish the right angle you can hold one end of the piece in place with the square while soldering the other end with a tack. Check the first tacked end with the square and providing it is OK go and solder the other end. Give the tack enough time to cool before holding the tacked end. Once you are happy that both ends are square then tack as previously. You can only do this if using nickle silver as the heat does not dissipate as it does in brass. I also sometimes use this technique depending on the awkwardness of the item being fitted . I also have a surgical clamp which only cost a small ammount but it is very useful for fitting very small items - they do not escape from it once clamped. ;) Just to illustrate here are a few photographs showing the other side being made using the technique.


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Using the 2"square to hold the work square whilst doing the tacks


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This shows the side being clamped and the first tacks in place


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Tacking done


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Joining the dots using flux in between


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Again the final finish

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:07 pm

As I move on I check that the joint is square :thumb and then clean up the joint with a flat file to neaten things up and clear excess solder. I would like to encourage a sense neetness of finish and of good craftmanship as I feel it will add to your own personal sense of achievement. Even if you decide not to take time to tidy up - after all no-one is going to see it being in the inside of the loco, :o you will still need to clear the metal where you are going to add other pieces of metal. A second consideration is also the ammount of solder which will add to the heat sink effect when trying to solder other pieces of metal later on. The larger the ammount of metal you are soldering to the more heat is required. I have a number of soldering irons, but do not intend using anything over my 25watt iron and should be able to complete the build without going larger - remember I am using mainly nickle silver which tends to keep the heat in the area being soldered rather than away from the area, which brass tends to do. Brass needs more heat generally, tinplate even more so, which can be a problem when soldering smaller items at a later stage of the proceedings. :)

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Cleaning up the inside of the joint with a flat file


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Looking at the fit of the tank front, I have deliberately set this wrongly, but notice that I have only soldered one edge at this stage. By doing this it makes it easier to soften the solder again and set more accurately. Once it is in the right place and square, then the other edge can be soldered up.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:30 pm

When making tanks, I tend to do something on one side of the loco and then do the same job on the other and check one against the other. So here goes with the tank fronts.

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Here I am trying out the two sides with the tank fronts fitted so I am placing them side by side and checking for squareness.
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The tank sides are placed in the smooth jawed vice and cleaned up, trimmed if necessary.


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Finish off with wet and dry. and do the same with the other tank.


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This is the type of wet and dry I have been using.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:38 pm

Although I pre-drilled all the holes in the pieces for the frames, it might be a thought to consider that your first scratchbuild may need a little come and go with some of your pieces and I would suggest leaving the drilling until you have made sure of the fit. The drawing is still attached at this stage, so the pattern and placing is still there to work from or alter if necessary. A nice sharp drill and archemedies drill will allow your holes to be drilled.

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At this stage I drilled any holes required for handrail knobs, although I tend to drill all of them before cutting pieces from the sheet, but it is till possible to do them as the pattern is still attached to the metal.


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Take the paper pattern off once the holes have been drilled.It will tear off, but may need a solvent to clean it off completely. I used lighter fluid - no naked flame of course


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Here the paper is being cleaned off using a coffee stirrer. It takes a little time to clean up but once this has been done I then examine the outside of the joints.


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Here we see the top joint revealed as cleaning is going on. If necessary a little solder can be added here and there and filed down.


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Here we have the final file up and rub down.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:23 pm

There are several pieces still to be added to the tanks, but I don't add to them at this stage. I did mention that my method is to get various units put together and to try them one with another to see that the basic structure will be right. Small details can be added later and other parts that may need fabrication - for example cut outs in the tanks - which we will come to later on. In this build the next item I put together was the smokebox and boiler, minus fittings. Between the boiler barrel and the smokebox there is a transition where the two meet. Rather than doing multiple wraps of metal to bring it out to this shape, I think it is easier to do this in one piece and solder it on to the end of the boiler. It will be bolted on to the back of the smokebox and all must be square when this happens. ;) I also want to show that you do not have to be purist about materials here - anything which may help to solve problems is grist to the mill. In this case a piece of metal a certain diameter and thickness.

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I have taken a piece of copper that happened to be the right size and marked and drilled the centre. a bolt of suitable type was selected and trimmed and put through the hole, then soldered up using one of the many holes in the wooden block.


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When I turn this over to reveal what has been used we can see the material being used - filed down a little to the correct thickness and checked with my gauge. Heat travels quickly through copper/bronze and one side has been soldered completely and the brass bolt soldered in place. When soldering the bolt I held the top of the bolt in place using an old screwdriver whilst soldering. so that it would stay at right angles.


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Copper stays hot for a longer time so taking it off the block using pliers.


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The transition piece is offered up to the smokebox which I have already put together, the bolt going through a hole in the centre of the rear plate of the smokebox. It is very important that this is central! Otherwise your boiler or smokebox will end up off centre!

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:13 pm

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Providing everything is central make a mark on the top of the sokebox and of the copper disc and find the centre of the boiler and mark that clearly as well. I use a marker at this stage.


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Place the disc on the block back into the hole drilled for the bolt.


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Now place the boiler on the disc and make sure it is sitting in line and that the copper disc sticks out the same all the way around and mark a mark on the wooden block in line with the central mark. This helps during the lining up and holding during soldering. Providing all the solder mealts the boiler will settle down level.


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Add flux to the solder and also the front edge of the boiler tube where they are going to be joined and heat the copper using the soldering iron. The copper transmits the heat all across its surface very quickly and heat builds up rapidly which makes the solder flow and the tube which is stood vertically drops into the solder which completes the joint all the way around. A gentle pressure can be applied at the top of the tube, but care is needed not to throw it out of true and I would recommend if touching to hold using a cloth at the top of the boiler. The heat will travel and the solder stay liquid for a while till cool. Just hold steady and a neat job will require very little cleaning up.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:09 pm

Time to match up a couple of items and see how they look together - so to attaching the boiler to the smokebox. Before doing this make sure the surfaces to be brought together are clean and that as individual units are all square. Something I aught to mention is that when taking photos you can get some distortion and that is the case here, however I have checked everything and am satisfied that I should get a good fit. :D I would not proceed until I was satisfied that this was the case as it will have an effect on the final engine you really want everything to be in line and level along the length of the smokebox / boiler unit. :thumb

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The smoke box and the boiler can be bolted together at this stage prior to relating it to the footplate.


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here the bolt fitted to the boiler is being offered up to the smokebox to see what the fit is like and whether all is square. Not too bad in this case.


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Looking inside we can see the bolt coming through from the boiler. It can be tricky fitting a nut in place. I use a surgeon's clamp which holds things like this very well.


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A very useful tool is the clamp- not expensive and appear on many trade stands these days, I also use them for holding small items when soldering. The bent nose is excellent for getting into awkward corners. They are quite cheap if I remember. There is an alternative for this job as well - a simple ruse-
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Sorry this photo is a little bit out of focus, but it shows a small blob of plasticene attached to the nut . A wooden stick pressed into the plasticene will allow you to place the nut on the bolt and start the first couple of turns. Bluetack can be used in a similar way - I expect people replying to this with all sorts of interesting methods of their own.


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Nut tightened up and nice and snug. Using nuts and bolts to hold different parts of the engine together is a useful thing if you are doing locomotives with complicated liveries. My dear friend Bob Hetherington builds lovely locomotives and has his locos done this way to allow for easier painting. In this case the livery of the loco is simple and does not require this treatment.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:32 pm

Now to the footplate - it is essential the footplate is cut out and made flat. If the material is a hard"ish" version of N/S sheet this is an advantage at this stage as it will want to remain flat. The material will probably not bend over without splitting along the joint, but this can be an advantage when cutting out as well. A softer version has advantages in that it can be folded. A problem of some kits that use N/S for valve gear is that it is often made with hard N/S and there may be components that require folding without splitting - the trick is to heat the component up and then let it cool before folding. :cry: We will probably come back to this later - in the meantime the footplate. :)

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Having cut out the footplate it should be prepared and strengthened by adding the footplate edges to the underside. In this case I am using some T brass strip. Look at some photographs to see how the edges are set in. Thickness of the edge of the footplate can be altered by using an L shaped strip to thicken the edge, alternatively T shape can also be used, this increases the strength of the edge as well, many modellers use square strip and a thicker material for the footplate. A thicker material for the footplate makes it stiffer, but much heavier work. Strengthening the edges this way and using thinner material still results in a strong footplate which will also stiffen as other parts are added . You take your pick and make your choice - for me it often comes down to what materials do I have in stock to do the job as I have no particular favourite. Here the material is being tacked in place. I mark a line along where the material is to sit and tack on. If using T section to give thickness to the edge then the edge itself will act as the guide
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Having tacked along then take a small brush and work some flux in all the way along the joint, then work the joint together by soldering at one end and then go to the other end and back and forward so that there is no distortion, you may even want to allow time for cooling between solderings. Do not just work from one end to the other as it is very important not to end up with heat distortion - this panel of material is your datum and all other parts will relate to this datum.


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Working this way you should have enough solder to do the job and end up with a nice neat edge as here. Looks nice and straight, great!


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Look along the edge and check for straightness, you can take a file and clean off any additional solder that may have strayed. If you have distortion it is probably better to strip the strip off carefully and start again, but if you have followed this method I would be very surprised if you have this situation.


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The second strip is added using a coffee stirring stick to hold the brass as I am soldering.
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Clean up with your favourite scraper/file or in this case a brass pencil - I hate glass fibre brushes although I do use them as well, but for this I am my brass pencil - RS components
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Here I have cleaned up one side using a small flat file and the brass pencil and the other side still to be cleaned up for comparison.
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:38 pm

Although there are perhaps a few general rules about building much of it is common sense and thinking ahead. Earlier when constructing the tanks I left them at a stage where there were several pieces still needing fitting. I have mentioned elsewhere that I divide my work up into items needing quite a period of time and some needing less time and others needing just a short time, I had a short time one day - half an hour- so I decided to add the front tank steps. Good enough time to add them while the tanks are still loose as I can line them up with the front of the cab which has the front of the tank marked on it. Made sense to do it now. :) Takes longer to write this up! :!:

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Here I am aligning the steps using a square and the cab front, the steps are L angle cut to length and matched for both sides prior to fitting



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This is a job which could be done using solder paste as an alternative to flux and solder. I checked to see that both tank fronts were the same by putting them side by side and comparing to see if they are a mirror image. The solder has filled the space between the surfaces. and the top edge needs cleaning up.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:25 pm

I wanted to try fitting some of the main components together just to make sure it would all go together correctly. To do this I would have to fit the cab front to the boiler/smokebox unit. This would allow me to build the box as it were. The footplate is the base and datum, the smokebox front will form the front vertical the boiler will run across the top and be level and parallel with the footplate and the cab front will form the rear vertical. The first need is to fit the cab front to the boiler, so to do this I needed to mark the centre of the cab and use this to align to the centre of the boiler which has already been marked.

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Here is the cab front still a bit rough at this stage, particularly around the windows, but it will be tidied up when working on the next stage. I have marked the centre line with a pencil.


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Here is a photo showing the centre marks being aligned


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Just checking the inside edge for fit, which seems fine


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Back to tacking, holding the boiler vertical I place a small tack of solder at the bottom of the joint in a place which will be hidden behind the tank sides - does not need to be neat at this time. Looking all around and checking the alignment is still OK I do the same at the other side.


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Here is the other side being done. I now leave the metal to cool as I do not want the joint to spring at the next stage. The joint is going to be completed in the same way as the footplate.


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I have put some support under the boiler and turned it upside down. This time in the middle where the iron is showing I place another blob of solder as a tack. Two intermediate tacks later I flux the entire joint and then join the dots using the same method as before so nothing twists. Hopefully you understand the technique for this by now. The solder blobs work their way along the joint and produce a strong bond. It will be neat in the inside any excess will tend to show on the outside where it can be cleaned off fairly easily with scrapers and files.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:02 pm

Having attached the front of the cab I checked squareness before moving on to a trial fit with the footplate. Starts to get a bit more exciting as at this stage I am beginning to get a feel as to how the locomotive is going to take shape. :o It is easy to start running on as things take shape, but extra care should be taken at this stage to make sure all is square as once everything is bonded you do not want to be making changes. :cry: At a later stage with small pieces mealting off and falling everywhere and solder making a mess and flowing just where you do not want it is not a situation you want to fnd yourself in. :cry: :cry: Having said that if you are modelling a particularly ancient locomotive you may want to suggest metal fatigue and a certain lack of true due to numerous reasons. Keeping a cool head I double checked the next stages very carefully. :)

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The first thing is to check whether the parts line up in the correct places, again having the pattern there helps as it has not been removed yet. Looks like the boiler top is going to sit nice and level with the footplate. Great!


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Check to see if the smokebox fits the footplate at the front and see how it aligns with the cab at the other end. Any slight adjustment that may be needed can be done at this stage as it is still possible to turn the firebox slightly to perfect the alignment using this method of construction.


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It is obvious in this view that I have not cleaned up the cab front joint yet. I am assuming I may have to make an adjustment here, but as it turns out all the parts fit well and all is square. Which is what Iwas hoping as I have spent time and much care in acheiving that.


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It is very important to do a check from the top - looking down to see if the boiler runs parallel to the footplate sides and that the spacing is equal.This shot looks just fine. Again the lense distortion here is a little annoying, but I can assure everyone that the alignmet is correct.


Enough for tonight - Clapton is on the telly and if you like me love playing the guitar there is nothing like him! :D

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:05 pm

Everything about the next stage is all about keeping everything square. Checking and re-checking over and over. :| First attempts at building kits and early attempts at scratchbuilding could have been better in this sphere for me, :( just too keen to move on with the work and perhaps not grasping the importance of getting the main parts related properly, before the addition of more parts.The tanks, for example, are pretty basic at this stage.

So, having made a visual check to see whether everything will line up, it is now time to tag the main parts together checking again for squareness as each part is fitted. Again to begin with I tack only with the intention that once everything has been tacked together and all is square I will solder up in a more solid fashion. It is a good idea to have a small block of flat wood to clip the footplate onto (the block can go in the vice) when soldering parts together. When tacking the front of the smokebox in place I have used the front of the cab to keep things square. Any slight twist can be taken out By revolving the smokebox/relative to the boiler, if absoloutly necessary. The smokebox is bolted to the boiler after all. No movement was necessary - a good sign that enough care is being made. :thumb

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The smokebox of this loco comes down below the footplate. I have tacked the front on below the footplate using the still attached drawing, despite the drawing starting to detach during the soldering together of the smokebox.


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From the side I check for squareness (I would also do this again from on top). I only tack the front of the smokebox, leaving the rear of the box to much later.


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Looking from the front it is clear that no solder appears above the footplate and the footplate lies square again the attached drawing helps to keep things right. I would also use my miniature square to check the smokebox goes up vertically from the footplate.


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Here the front of the cab has also been attached, with great care, making sure everything is again perfectly square.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:03 pm

Now for the tanks, just check the fit first of all -I had a look at some photographs of the engines and noticed a slight difference between the prototype loco WPR 16 and the others. :idea: The most noticeable difference is the position and shape of the inspection hole in the side of the tanks, the length of the tanks was also slighty different. The first couple of locos I am building are "standard" ones - no.16 will have to wait a little. The tanks fitted OK and I decided to go ahead and make the underside of the inspection hole and a rear to the tank when I saw that the inside of the tank would be visible between the boiler and the tank if not modelled. Some locomotives have a cover over this joint between the boiler and the tank - very common on locomotives built north of the border. I assume to cut down on corrosion. :?

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Trying the tank sides I found that there was definately going to be a space viewable between the boiler and the tank which would need filling. I also check the fit against the footplate. I have no intention of letting any dimentional wrongs congregate. Deal with any as you go along is best policy.


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Looking from above I could see that if I placed the tank at the correct forward position there would be a slight gap just before the cab front. This is possibly due to how the tank front and top were soldered together. The slight gap would need filled. At this point I checked a few measurements and decided that moving the cab front forward was not the correct decision - although possible as nothing had been soldered into its final position.


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I decided that the small dimentional difference would be best dealt with by simply filling the gap with a gap filling solder which I have. The width of the gap was less than a millimetre and everything would be in position. The far away tank is not quite square ,but that is due to placing it just for the photo.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:48 pm

It is all looking good at this stage :D and quite promising, but the tanks cannot be soldered in place until I have made up the rear of the tank and inside of the tank hole. A simple piece of flat N/S sheet would suffice and only what may be needed - so I measured the tank above the inspection opening and also used a paper pattern to determin the final shape and size of material needed for the inspection hole again made out of N/S. The upper tank area will probably be filled later so I will leave a space both front and back for access inside.

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The metal is marked out and cut with sheers held in a vice -much easier to cut metal this way - much more control


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It was necssary to flatten out the slight curve in the metal caused by the cutting so I used a small hammer and the anvil on my vice, eventually cleaning up with a small file.


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Finally I checked to make sure it fits the rear of the tank and made another for the other tank.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby David Knight » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:20 am

Allan, you mention 'gap filling solder'. What is the composition of this solder and its melting point?

Cheers,

David

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:22 pm

The gap filling solder I have had for many years and use it quite often for this type of thing, I was given a kilo of the stuff from my dear friend Jim Pugh, who is no longer with us - a superb modeller who died far too young. Unfortunately I am not a chemist so I cannot tell you the exact composition - maybe someone will help with this. The temperature that it operates at is about the same as for 144 degrees. The solder probably came through the electronics industry somewhere in Livingston - Jim worked there, but the company no longer have a base here. I am sure there will be others on the market now.

This stuff is lead based and multicore and probably no longer in production although the company that made it is still operational. I have had a look to see if I could find the material on the net, but most solders are now going over to lead free, but there will be an equivalent about now I am sure.

The company is the MATSUO SOLDER MFG. CO. LTD. most of what's on the reel is in Japanese but the following codes are marked RH60 -1.2z200 5 552608 D2, but I do not think it will be possible to get this specific solder now - remember I have been doing this a long time now - the solder must pre-date the society. There is bound to be someone within the society that knows a modern equivalent.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:52 pm

It may be surprising to some that here we are considering scratchbuildng for beginners, but when I started building in S4 there were not many kits for the North British types I wanted to build - still true when building locos for Burntisland, but it is not as difficult as some people make out. Providing you can mark out and cut accurately you can produce something worthwhile. My first scratchbuild was my little Y9 which has worked all these years. Not necessarily the easiest for a starter with its saddle tank and all, but I thought there was not too much to go wrong either and why not - it would give me something of character which no one was likely to have. I already had one locomotive running, my J88, which required me making my own chassis and I had managed to get it to work well, so making a body - could that be any more dificult? :?

As I am writing this up some time after doing the work on the engine I have a short story worth telling against myself. As you can see by this stage in the building I was not sure whether there was sheeting above the gap between boiler and tank. There were other little things niggling at me as to detail, so I went hunting and found one of the locos and having asked permission to photograph, I took as many photos as I thought I needed. Now this happened very near the finishing point of the construction, so needless to say there were all sorts of details which I had managed to get wrong. :shock:

How many times has that happened to me - you can spend hours and hours researching from photographs of locomotives, but so much is lost in shaddow. most photographers were not interested in taking close-ups of the detail so they are rare and having access to locos these days is not always easy. Often I have modelled items for layouts where later information came to light and the items should be totally different - a good example being the signals on Burntisland. They add a lot visually to the layout, but I have the feeling that they were put in a little later than the 1883 date we have been working to. :cry:

Here are a couple of photos that show the cover between boiler and tank.

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Just flat sheet by the look of it used to cover the gap, but then was it like that all along and on both sides.
DSC01942.JPG (117.01 KiB) Viewed 5315 times


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Slightly broader picture, poor old engine looking a bit tatty these days.
DSC01943.JPG (107.32 KiB) Viewed 5315 times


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Here is one in colour which shows there is a slight curve where the sheet meets the boiler. There is also a gap between the boiler and tank nearest the cab front. There is also a toolbox on top of the tank on this side - was that there in Wemyss days? Maybe it was fitted in its time working on the SRPS at Falkirk in the early days. Things can happen once locos have been "Preserved", another one of the class has recently been converted to right hand drive and vacuum brake added.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:21 pm

Now there are times you may always want to use your drawing for your measurements, but I decided to use another method, which can be used to solve particular problems, where there may be difficult shapes, particularly curved shapes to deal with. :thumb

In this case I wanted to cut metal and shape it to fit inside the tank cutouts which allow the driver and mechanics to be able to get to oiling points between the frames, or to examine the motion. The method I am using is to cut a paper template and use it to cut metal. Having attached the rear tank sides I measured between the inner and outer tank sides and cut a piece of paper which would fit snuggly between the two. I then took the paper strip and made it follow the shape of the cutout marking the overall length of metal I would need. I then cut the metal a little longer than required, but the correct width, trimmed and cleaned up. The bends in the metal were created using my vice as you can follow in the following photographs. :)

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Here the strip of paper is being placed within the cutout and the measurement being made as it is bent around the curve.


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Using the jaws of a vice it is possible to bend in the tight curves required. The metal must be set in the vice at right angles prior to bending. Larger curves can be achieved by bending around a piece of round stock bar. If building locos you soon make a small collection of bar or tube to bend things around. With this thickness of material it is easy to bend material just using no more than your fingers and your vice.


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Here I am checking exactly where the curve has to be made. If you look hard you will see that I managed to get it in the wrong place and had to take it out again by tapping gently with my hammer and vice anvil. Fortunately the bend is going in to the correct place this time.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:53 pm

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If you have problems with your fingers getting sore try instead using a piece of flat steel to force the bend - in this case I am using the flat handle of a file.


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I then added the tank inside and soldered it into place. I did not make the entire inner tank side as I wanted to be able to have access, but there is no reason why you can't take it all the way down to footplate level. The other option would be not to bother about tank backs at all as the gap between tank and boiler could be filled as we have seen from the photographs I have already shown of the gap covers.


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A little cleaning up of soldering and any further trimming then check its fit against the footplate. Repeat now for the other tank and side.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:28 pm

The next stage I always find very exciting :o as the engine is now ready for assembly. I have checked to see if there is anything that would be better fitted at this stage, but in this case there is nothing which could be fitted better at this stage, so I am going to start soldering, again using my tacking method as it allows changing if necessary, but what I am aiming for is to check for squareness throughout. :!:

So CHECK - Tack-CHECK again, if all is well Check the fit of the other end and -Tack-then check again.If happy then it can be left as other items are tacked into place and similarly checked untill all the main parts are correctly aligned. When everything checks out and all is happiness and delight :lol: then more tacks and final soldering together and cleaning up. :|

I take my time as I do this as I am trying to get everything accurately in place, it is also a stage that I find gives me great pleasure and therefor should not be hurried. :D

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I start by soldering the smokebox end on to the footplate and checking it ends up in the right place and is not squint. Check looking from all angles, side and top.


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Here the first side is being tacked along the boiler and the fit checked.


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Here the other side has been tacked in place and what I am looking for here, is symetry and that all levels are correct and that the boiler is going to run straight and level with the tanks. Notice the gaps which I intend to fill once everything is correctly soldered into place.


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Here the back of the cab has not yet been tacked into place. As I am also taking the opportunity to mark out and cut my cab floor in ply - one of these jobs easier at this stage I decided, easier to fit the cab back after.


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Another view with the timbers scored and the cut out where the backhead is going to go.


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