West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

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Allan Goodwillie
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:12 pm

Having made these checks I turned to making up the side tanks. These are cut out from the sheet using a mix of sharp scissors or using a piercing saw and V cutting block held in a vice, as shown in the first part of the build. The important things at this stage are to make sure that each part fits properly and that parts are finished off properly so that excesss solder does not mean that things do not match up properly. Thinking ahead there is more than one part not on the cutting sheet. The first is the cutout in the tank sides, the other is the inside of the tank on each side. To some it may not be necessary to make the inside of the tank. On the locomotive I am building I feel it would show from certain angles. We will have a look at the real thing later in the series and I hope you agree with me that it is necessary in this case

Important An important technique when soldering this kind of thing together is to use a form of soldering called tack soldering. A tack being a small ball of solder placed to position key points, sometimes quite far apart. This establishes the positions of parts, their squareness and cuts down on expansion problems, especially when using brass where the heat travels longer and faster than when using nickle silver. We have come across this when making up the chassis. THis is where my old wooden soldering block comes in handy.

When I made it up some years ago I made sure it had a couple of stripwood strips or MDF cut square fitted around two of its edges making sure they were at right angles to one another and to the base. You will see just how handy such an item is when building. Perhaps it is about time I made up another new one instead of "old scruffy" although it is perfectly serviceable as is. Remember this is all from my workbench and some of my equipment has been in use for many years. My father was a great one for giving me tools and I have often been given tools along the way by various friends. I am grateful for all such gifts. I could do with a new lathe as my old lathe is beginning to get a bit inaccurate after so many years - more of this later!

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:06 pm

Here are a couple of photos just to show the simple block in all its tattyness :oops: and also the V cutting block held in my vice as well as the piercing saw which I use. The saw allows for breaking blades in that you can still use them and alter the length of the saw a very useful feature :roll: , which also helps to stretch the blade keeping it taught. :idea: This is all very basic I know, neither take long to make and will be constant companions over the years. They will also keep your work bench from damage and will wear out in time. Given the fact that they can be fitted in the vice it means that you can turn your work around and to better angles than if they were fixed on the bench. This is also a good feature of the larger vice I use. Its head can be rotated, if I was to buy a new vice I would probably go for the all singing and dancing ones which also have the ability to hold work at an angle. If you intend doing much scratchbuilding a good vice is essential.


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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Now to some more construction using the block. I use a paper clip which has a good reach and holds the metal tightly against the walls of the block while soldering. Notice the "tacks" holding the pieces of metal together. I am using a 25Watt soldering iron for this job. As the work progresses more and more parts are tacked together and the fit checked. It is possible to tack everything together and if it all fits then it can be soldered more tightly together.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:29 pm

Back on the block I add other tacks, using nickle silver allows me to place them in between the others without them melting, this can be a bit more tricky with brass as the heat tends to move away from where it is being applied. Tinplate even more so. I do not use tinplate at all now, but have a couple of friends who have used it effectivly - providing every trace of flux has been removed and the model well primed and painted.

I am still using up brass which I bought ages ago :o and of course there are some times when I have found nickle silver tube of the right size unavailable. :cry: I am no purist that way, but N/S is a far better material to play with and takes paint better than brass with its comparativly greasy surface.


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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:52 pm

Next thing to do, once cooled, is to take the soldering iron and blend again I do this a bit at a time and not rush. I try to make the joint as even as possible. If done neatly as above it could be kept just as seen. If you have a grinder and many do have the facility, then it can be made even neater - no one else will probably see it, it does take up a little more time to do, but you may prefer to know that it is finished well inside. Then again thetanks may well be filled with lead and after all the solder has weight anyway.


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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:44 pm

If you are simply working on the flat then there is another technique you can use using a simple block of wood and a paper clip again used as a clamp. The 2" square is used again. The soldering technique is the same, but using the square to establish the right angle you can hold one end of the piece in place with the square while soldering the other end with a tack. Check the first tacked end with the square and providing it is OK go and solder the other end. Give the tack enough time to cool before holding the tacked end. Once you are happy that both ends are square then tack as previously. You can only do this if using nickle silver as the heat does not dissipate as it does in brass. I also sometimes use this technique depending on the awkwardness of the item being fitted . I also have a surgical clamp which only cost a small ammount but it is very useful for fitting very small items - they do not escape from it once clamped. ;) Just to illustrate here are a few photographs showing the other side being made using the technique.


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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:07 pm

As I move on I check that the joint is square :thumb and then clean up the joint with a flat file to neaten things up and clear excess solder. I would like to encourage a sense neetness of finish and of good craftmanship as I feel it will add to your own personal sense of achievement. Even if you decide not to take time to tidy up - after all no-one is going to see it being in the inside of the loco, :o you will still need to clear the metal where you are going to add other pieces of metal. A second consideration is also the ammount of solder which will add to the heat sink effect when trying to solder other pieces of metal later on. The larger the ammount of metal you are soldering to the more heat is required. I have a number of soldering irons, but do not intend using anything over my 25watt iron and should be able to complete the build without going larger - remember I am using mainly nickle silver which tends to keep the heat in the area being soldered rather than away from the area, which brass tends to do. Brass needs more heat generally, tinplate even more so, which can be a problem when soldering smaller items at a later stage of the proceedings. :)

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:30 pm

When making tanks, I tend to do something on one side of the loco and then do the same job on the other and check one against the other. So here goes with the tank fronts.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:38 pm

Although I pre-drilled all the holes in the pieces for the frames, it might be a thought to consider that your first scratchbuild may need a little come and go with some of your pieces and I would suggest leaving the drilling until you have made sure of the fit. The drawing is still attached at this stage, so the pattern and placing is still there to work from or alter if necessary. A nice sharp drill and archemedies drill will allow your holes to be drilled.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:23 pm

There are several pieces still to be added to the tanks, but I don't add to them at this stage. I did mention that my method is to get various units put together and to try them one with another to see that the basic structure will be right. Small details can be added later and other parts that may need fabrication - for example cut outs in the tanks - which we will come to later on. In this build the next item I put together was the smokebox and boiler, minus fittings. Between the boiler barrel and the smokebox there is a transition where the two meet. Rather than doing multiple wraps of metal to bring it out to this shape, I think it is easier to do this in one piece and solder it on to the end of the boiler. It will be bolted on to the back of the smokebox and all must be square when this happens. ;) I also want to show that you do not have to be purist about materials here - anything which may help to solve problems is grist to the mill. In this case a piece of metal a certain diameter and thickness.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:13 pm

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:09 pm

Time to match up a couple of items and see how they look together - so to attaching the boiler to the smokebox. Before doing this make sure the surfaces to be brought together are clean and that as individual units are all square. Something I aught to mention is that when taking photos you can get some distortion and that is the case here, however I have checked everything and am satisfied that I should get a good fit. :D I would not proceed until I was satisfied that this was the case as it will have an effect on the final engine you really want everything to be in line and level along the length of the smokebox / boiler unit. :thumb

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:32 pm

Now to the footplate - it is essential the footplate is cut out and made flat. If the material is a hard"ish" version of N/S sheet this is an advantage at this stage as it will want to remain flat. The material will probably not bend over without splitting along the joint, but this can be an advantage when cutting out as well. A softer version has advantages in that it can be folded. A problem of some kits that use N/S for valve gear is that it is often made with hard N/S and there may be components that require folding without splitting - the trick is to heat the component up and then let it cool before folding. :cry: We will probably come back to this later - in the meantime the footplate. :)

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:38 pm

Although there are perhaps a few general rules about building much of it is common sense and thinking ahead. Earlier when constructing the tanks I left them at a stage where there were several pieces still needing fitting. I have mentioned elsewhere that I divide my work up into items needing quite a period of time and some needing less time and others needing just a short time, I had a short time one day - half an hour- so I decided to add the front tank steps. Good enough time to add them while the tanks are still loose as I can line them up with the front of the cab which has the front of the tank marked on it. Made sense to do it now. :) Takes longer to write this up! :!:

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:25 pm

I wanted to try fitting some of the main components together just to make sure it would all go together correctly. To do this I would have to fit the cab front to the boiler/smokebox unit. This would allow me to build the box as it were. The footplate is the base and datum, the smokebox front will form the front vertical the boiler will run across the top and be level and parallel with the footplate and the cab front will form the rear vertical. The first need is to fit the cab front to the boiler, so to do this I needed to mark the centre of the cab and use this to align to the centre of the boiler which has already been marked.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:02 pm

Having attached the front of the cab I checked squareness before moving on to a trial fit with the footplate. Starts to get a bit more exciting as at this stage I am beginning to get a feel as to how the locomotive is going to take shape. :o It is easy to start running on as things take shape, but extra care should be taken at this stage to make sure all is square as once everything is bonded you do not want to be making changes. :cry: At a later stage with small pieces mealting off and falling everywhere and solder making a mess and flowing just where you do not want it is not a situation you want to fnd yourself in. :cry: :cry: Having said that if you are modelling a particularly ancient locomotive you may want to suggest metal fatigue and a certain lack of true due to numerous reasons. Keeping a cool head I double checked the next stages very carefully. :)

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Enough for tonight - Clapton is on the telly and if you like me love playing the guitar there is nothing like him! :D
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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:05 pm

Everything about the next stage is all about keeping everything square. Checking and re-checking over and over. :| First attempts at building kits and early attempts at scratchbuilding could have been better in this sphere for me, :( just too keen to move on with the work and perhaps not grasping the importance of getting the main parts related properly, before the addition of more parts.The tanks, for example, are pretty basic at this stage.

So, having made a visual check to see whether everything will line up, it is now time to tag the main parts together checking again for squareness as each part is fitted. Again to begin with I tack only with the intention that once everything has been tacked together and all is square I will solder up in a more solid fashion. It is a good idea to have a small block of flat wood to clip the footplate onto (the block can go in the vice) when soldering parts together. When tacking the front of the smokebox in place I have used the front of the cab to keep things square. Any slight twist can be taken out By revolving the smokebox/relative to the boiler, if absoloutly necessary. The smokebox is bolted to the boiler after all. No movement was necessary - a good sign that enough care is being made. :thumb

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:03 pm

Now for the tanks, just check the fit first of all -I had a look at some photographs of the engines and noticed a slight difference between the prototype loco WPR 16 and the others. :idea: The most noticeable difference is the position and shape of the inspection hole in the side of the tanks, the length of the tanks was also slighty different. The first couple of locos I am building are "standard" ones - no.16 will have to wait a little. The tanks fitted OK and I decided to go ahead and make the underside of the inspection hole and a rear to the tank when I saw that the inside of the tank would be visible between the boiler and the tank if not modelled. Some locomotives have a cover over this joint between the boiler and the tank - very common on locomotives built north of the border. I assume to cut down on corrosion. :?

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:48 pm

It is all looking good at this stage :D and quite promising, but the tanks cannot be soldered in place until I have made up the rear of the tank and inside of the tank hole. A simple piece of flat N/S sheet would suffice and only what may be needed - so I measured the tank above the inspection opening and also used a paper pattern to determin the final shape and size of material needed for the inspection hole again made out of N/S. The upper tank area will probably be filled later so I will leave a space both front and back for access inside.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby David Knight » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:20 am

Allan, you mention 'gap filling solder'. What is the composition of this solder and its melting point?

Cheers,

David

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:22 pm

The gap filling solder I have had for many years and use it quite often for this type of thing, I was given a kilo of the stuff from my dear friend Jim Pugh, who is no longer with us - a superb modeller who died far too young. Unfortunately I am not a chemist so I cannot tell you the exact composition - maybe someone will help with this. The temperature that it operates at is about the same as for 144 degrees. The solder probably came through the electronics industry somewhere in Livingston - Jim worked there, but the company no longer have a base here. I am sure there will be others on the market now.

This stuff is lead based and multicore and probably no longer in production although the company that made it is still operational. I have had a look to see if I could find the material on the net, but most solders are now going over to lead free, but there will be an equivalent about now I am sure.

The company is the MATSUO SOLDER MFG. CO. LTD. most of what's on the reel is in Japanese but the following codes are marked RH60 -1.2z200 5 552608 D2, but I do not think it will be possible to get this specific solder now - remember I have been doing this a long time now - the solder must pre-date the society. There is bound to be someone within the society that knows a modern equivalent.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:52 pm

It may be surprising to some that here we are considering scratchbuildng for beginners, but when I started building in S4 there were not many kits for the North British types I wanted to build - still true when building locos for Burntisland, but it is not as difficult as some people make out. Providing you can mark out and cut accurately you can produce something worthwhile. My first scratchbuild was my little Y9 which has worked all these years. Not necessarily the easiest for a starter with its saddle tank and all, but I thought there was not too much to go wrong either and why not - it would give me something of character which no one was likely to have. I already had one locomotive running, my J88, which required me making my own chassis and I had managed to get it to work well, so making a body - could that be any more dificult? :?

As I am writing this up some time after doing the work on the engine I have a short story worth telling against myself. As you can see by this stage in the building I was not sure whether there was sheeting above the gap between boiler and tank. There were other little things niggling at me as to detail, so I went hunting and found one of the locos and having asked permission to photograph, I took as many photos as I thought I needed. Now this happened very near the finishing point of the construction, so needless to say there were all sorts of details which I had managed to get wrong. :shock:

How many times has that happened to me - you can spend hours and hours researching from photographs of locomotives, but so much is lost in shaddow. most photographers were not interested in taking close-ups of the detail so they are rare and having access to locos these days is not always easy. Often I have modelled items for layouts where later information came to light and the items should be totally different - a good example being the signals on Burntisland. They add a lot visually to the layout, but I have the feeling that they were put in a little later than the 1883 date we have been working to. :cry:

Here are a couple of photos that show the cover between boiler and tank.

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:21 pm

Now there are times you may always want to use your drawing for your measurements, but I decided to use another method, which can be used to solve particular problems, where there may be difficult shapes, particularly curved shapes to deal with. :thumb

In this case I wanted to cut metal and shape it to fit inside the tank cutouts which allow the driver and mechanics to be able to get to oiling points between the frames, or to examine the motion. The method I am using is to cut a paper template and use it to cut metal. Having attached the rear tank sides I measured between the inner and outer tank sides and cut a piece of paper which would fit snuggly between the two. I then took the paper strip and made it follow the shape of the cutout marking the overall length of metal I would need. I then cut the metal a little longer than required, but the correct width, trimmed and cleaned up. The bends in the metal were created using my vice as you can follow in the following photographs. :)

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:53 pm

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Re: West of Scotland Group's "Starters" Build a loco project 3

Postby Allan Goodwillie » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:28 pm

The next stage I always find very exciting :o as the engine is now ready for assembly. I have checked to see if there is anything that would be better fitted at this stage, but in this case there is nothing which could be fitted better at this stage, so I am going to start soldering, again using my tacking method as it allows changing if necessary, but what I am aiming for is to check for squareness throughout. :!:

So CHECK - Tack-CHECK again, if all is well Check the fit of the other end and -Tack-then check again.If happy then it can be left as other items are tacked into place and similarly checked untill all the main parts are correctly aligned. When everything checks out and all is happiness and delight :lol: then more tacks and final soldering together and cleaning up. :|

I take my time as I do this as I am trying to get everything accurately in place, it is also a stage that I find gives me great pleasure and therefor should not be hurried. :D

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