Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Help and advice for those starting in, or converting to P4 standards. A place to share modelling as a beginner in P4.
Brinkly
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Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Brinkly » Sat Apr 26, 2014 5:06 pm

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice please. :)

Presently I am plodding through quite a lot of half, to three-quarter finished projects and despite having been a member of the society since 2008, I still think I am relatively inexperience with P4 modelling.

I've nearly completed a Parkside ex Southern Railway CCT van, using the Masokits sprung underframe. So far I am very pleased with how the vehicle has turned out. I would like the van to run either as tail traffic, or part of a parcel train comprised of 4-wheeled box vans and full-brake bogie stock.

My question is; how much should the CCT weight? (My theory is 120g, as most of my 4-wheeler stock weighs 55-60g - double the size of a van, so double the weight.)

And how much should a carriage (MK1 full-brake for example) weigh?

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards,
Nick.

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Russ Elliott
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Russ Elliott » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:04 pm

The Bachmann MkI weighs in at approx 140g, and seems to have become the default standard for coach haulage comparison purposes.

Prototype CCTs were comparatively light vehicles, and 120g sounds a bit over the top to me. Maybe 80g would be more appropriate.

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David B
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby David B » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:07 pm

When I asked this question a few years ago, a 'rule of thumb' was suggested at 25 to 30 grams per axle. If in doubt, err on the heavy side.

Brinkly
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Brinkly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:48 am

Thanks gents.

Kind regards,

Nick

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 3:04 pm

The CCT seen at the head of this train weighs in at 110 grams. It runs very well even when subjected to the tough spot between loc and train on the steep hills. Fitted with Bill Bedford springing. I would not want to go much less. I still need to add the whitemetal axleboxes and some glazing so it will gain a few grams eventually.

IMHO 25 g per axle is only suitable for the usual short wheelbase wagons, the NMRA have the right concept in recommending ounces per inch rather than per axle.
Regards
Keith
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Keith
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David B
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby David B » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:09 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:IMHO 25 g per axle is only suitable for the usual short wheelbase wagons, the NMRA have the right concept in recommending ounces per inch rather than per axle.


How nice to see things in imperial. How many ounces per inch would that be, Keith? Does this apply to shorter wheelbases such as wagons as well as coaches?

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grovenor-2685
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby grovenor-2685 » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:17 pm

How nice to see things in imperial. How many ounces per inch would that be, Keith?

Only given that way because of the NMRA reference, go look at their website, 'Recommended Practises' if you want the figures, not given for P4 mind you. ;)

When translated to the MKS system it will become Kilograms/metre of course.
Regards
Keith
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Keith
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Alan Turner
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Alan Turner » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:14 pm

grovenor-2685 wrote:
How nice to see things in imperial. How many ounces per inch would that be, Keith?

Only given that way because of the NMRA reference, go look at their website, 'Recommended Practises' if you want the figures, not given for P4 mind you. ;)

When translated to the MKS system it will become Kilograms/metre of course.
Regards
Keith


Or in the SI system Newtons/mm.

Brinkly
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Brinkly » Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:34 pm

Thanks for that Keith.

Kind regards,

Nick

martin goodall
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby martin goodall » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:23 pm

I haven't seen the NMRA figures, but if we say 15g per 25mm [inch] of body length, that might seem to put us in the right ballpark in terms of overall weight.

I had always reckoned 40g to 50g for a (short) 4-w wagon (60 to 70mm in length), but that if a wagon is to be marshalled with heavier (e.g. whitemetal) models, this has to be beefed up to at least 60g (maybe more).

For a BR 50ft full brake, this would give us 120g. A 4-w CCT would come in at rather less, but in Keith's example it is running in a heavy train with rather heavier bogie coaches, and so maybe 100g + might be advisable in these circumstamces, which is excatly what Keith has done.

Brinkly
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Brinkly » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:56 pm

martin goodall wrote:I had always reckoned 40g to 50g for a (short) 4-w wagon (60 to 70mm in length), but that if a wagon is to be marshalled with heavier (e.g. whitemetal) models, this has to be beefed up to at least 60g (maybe more).

For a BR 50ft full brake, this would give us 120g. A 4-w CCT would come in at rather less, but in Keith's example it is running in a heavy train with rather heavier bogie coaches, and so maybe 100g + might be advisable in these circumstamces, which is excatly what Keith has done.


Thanks Martin that was my thinking.

Kind regards,

Nick.

John Fitton

Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby John Fitton » Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:33 pm

And don't forget to add lead weight to locomotives for heavy haulage up steep grades!

Philip Hall
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Re: Carriage and Parcel Stock Weight

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:14 pm

I'm with Martin on this on, 100g. But I see no difference between a full brake and an ordinary passenger carriage. I don't know about a default standard, but 140g is way too light for a carriage. I aim for at least 170 -180g which allows for sprung gangways and sprung buffers, and I have handled a few Rocar vehicles which come in at a hefty 240g plus! So long as they are free running, once the train is moving a degree of momentum takes over.

As an aside, this weight and sprung buffers allows locomotives and tenders to be coupled to carriages properly ie buffer to buffer, not like a loose coupled goods train as so often seen.

Philip


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