P4 Starting up - wagons

[Paul Willis]

Hi this might be a bit unusual but I am going to ask it away.

My own love is for all things GWR and if anyone has anything like converted coaches or wagons that they might be interested in selling I would be interested in purchasing them to get me started.

Hi Nick,

Welcome on board. I'm afraid that I can't help with the point blade filing jig, although I'll add my thoughts on what you've said above.

I don't know what era of the GWR you're aiming for, but I would suggest that rather than getting started with someone else's model, why not have a crack at one of your own as a start?

It's been a while since I built it, but I would recommend something like the Coopercraft four plank open wagon as a perfect start to building in P4. I'm currently in a different country to my rolling stock boxes, but off the top of my head I'd suggest that all you need to think about is:

(1) turn the floor upside down if you're modelling it loaded or sheeted, to give a flat base to the w-irons.

(2) fit w-irons, either sprung or rocking (cue flamewars from the devotees of either). I've always used rocking, but that's because I have loads in stock. I've recently bought some Bill Bedford sprung ones to try as a comparison, so I'm nothing if not open minded

(3) fit cast whitemetal axleboxes - my preference is MJT - as this is easier than filing down the plastic ones

(4) fit sprung buffers as this will help if you subsequently build tightish curves, and anyway they are a lot more robust than plastic.

(5) Weight, decorate and enjoy.

This way you have a simple four wheel vehicle that you can then use to test your track out, and you've got the achievement of actually building something in P4

Of course, you can use this forum to solicit all the help and advice that you could wish for in fleshing out what I've sketched above.
All the best
Paul Willis

[Paul Willis]

I wrote:

I don't know what era of the GWR you're aiming for, but I would suggest that rather than getting started with someone else's model, why not have a crack at one of your own as a start?

It's been a while since I built it, but I would recommend something like the Coopercraft four plank open wagon as a perfect start to building in P4.

And now that I'm back home and can whip out the DSLR and, shot under rather bad light, here's one (or rather two) Coopercraft kits that I prepared earlier. Well, about eight or ten years ago to be precise, but you get the idea.

GWR wagons 002.jpg

GWR wagons 006.jpg

These are in what I would call "unrestored" state. They are showing the effects of ten years of being carted from house to house in unsuitable packaging, something that I've now resolved permanently , As a result they are more scruffy with bent couplings and such like than you would expect. They'll get a run through the workshop in the next few weeks...

I hope that this gives you the idea that you *can* do it very simply.

Paul Willis

[johnWM]

Coopercraft kits are great value, the side mouldings are superb, but if you want something up to P4 standards quickly, I think there are quicker options.
In my view there are 3 snags. (all minor, but all will slow you down)
The problem with having to fit the floor upside down is that you have to have all your wagons loaded.
If you do decide to replace the floor it takes longer and the internal detail is not there. Admittedly this mainly involves scribing planks, but again it adds time.
The brake gear on the 9ft underframe looks weird and has to be replaced.
The chassis was designed without thinking about people wanting to fit a sprung or compensated chassis, one consequence is that the solebars are a bit thick and will need some careful thinning, to get some suspension systems in.
These are in no way serious criticisms of the coopercraft range, most plastic wagon kits of this era (including Slaters) have ribs on the floor underside, thick solebar mouldings and little internal detail. The coopercraft V5 van is still in my opinion one of the best peices of plastic moulding ever.
For your first go I would recommend one of the far more recently released Cambrian range of PO wagons. The mouldings are excellent, they have flat floors with no ribs to remove, and full internal detailing. The solebars are moulded nice and thin so compensation fits between them without having to use a big flat file on the back of them. You may still end up replacing axleboxes, modifying brake gear etc, but thats all part of the slippery slope to P4.
http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/powagons.html
I would go along with the recommendation to replace the buffers with steel headed ones, I use the unsprung MJT version, which are now supplied by Dart castings.
http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.htm#WagonComponents-Buffers
For any open wagon kit, brace the sides while the glue sets or the sides will end up bowing inwards.
Good luck,

[Brinkly]

Hi Nick

Hi Paul (Sorry for not replying sooner, been very busy!)

Welcome on board. I'm afraid that I can't help with the point blade filing jig, although I'll add my thoughts on what you've said above.

I don't know what era of the GWR you're aiming for, but I would suggest that rather than getting started with someone else's model, why not have a crack at one of your own as a start?

Sorry the era that I am aiming for is early 1950s exGWR South West. As for purchasing other peoples bits, it was more locos really, which I should have said as that would have made everyones lives easier! I have built a number of Ratio GWR kits to P4 this week, using MJT rockers and Gibson wheels which seem to be running well.

It's been a while since I built it, but I would recommend something like the Coopercraft four plank open wagon as a perfect start to building in P4. I'm currently in a different country to my rolling stock boxes, but off the top of my head I'd suggest that all you need to think about is:

(1) turn the floor upside down if you're modelling it loaded or sheeted, to give a flat base to the w-irons.

(2) fit w-irons, either sprung or rocking (cue flamewars from the devotees of either). I've always used rocking, but that's because I have loads in stock. I've recently bought some Bill Bedford sprung ones to try as a comparison, so I'm nothing if not open minded

(3) fit cast whitemetal axleboxes - my preference is MJT - as this is easier than filing down the plastic ones

(4) fit sprung buffers as this will help if you subsequently build tightish curves, and anyway they are a lot more robust than plastic.

(5) Weight, decorate and enjoy.

This way you have a simple four wheel vehicle that you can then use to test your track out, and you've got the achievement of actually building something in P4

Of course, you can use this forum to solicit all the help and advice that you could wish for in fleshing out what I've sketched above.
All the best
Paul Willis

Thank you Paul for your support I purchased new buffers for the wagons which really do improve the look a great deal. I hope to put a few photos up on here or RMWeb soon, if that is ok with the admin staff.

Many thanks,
Nick

[Brinkly]

Coopercraft kits are great value, the side mouldings are superb, but if you want something up to P4 standards quickly, I think there are quicker options.
In my view there are 3 snags. (all minor, but all will slow you down)
The problem with having to fit the floor upside down is that you have to have all your wagons loaded.
If you do decide to replace the floor it takes longer and the internal detail is not there. Admittedly this mainly involves scribing planks, but again it adds time.
The brake gear on the 9ft underframe looks weird and has to be replaced.
The chassis was designed without thinking about people wanting to fit a sprung or compensated chassis, one consequence is that the solebars are a bit thick and will need some careful thinning, to get some suspension systems in.
These are in no way serious criticisms of the coopercraft range, most plastic wagon kits of this era (including Slaters) have ribs on the floor underside, thick solebar mouldings and little internal detail. The coopercraft V5 van is still in my opinion one of the best peices of plastic moulding ever.
For your first go I would recommend one of the far more recently released Cambrian range of PO wagons. The mouldings are excellent, they have flat floors with no ribs to remove, and full internal detailing. The solebars are moulded nice and thin so compensation fits between them without having to use a big flat file on the back of them. You may still end up replacing axleboxes, modifying brake gear etc, but thats all part of the slippery slope to P4.
http://www.cambrianmodels.co.uk/powagons.html
I would go along with the recommendation to replace the buffers with steel headed ones, I use the unsprung MJT version, which are now supplied by Dart castings.
http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt.htm#WagonComponents-Buffers
For any open wagon kit, brace the sides while the glue sets or the sides will end up bowing inwards.
Good luck,

Hi John,
Thank you so much for this information, I must confess that some of the plastic wagon chassis are poor, very chunky with little or no detail, which is a shame. The unsprung MJT buffers are the ones that I have used for my kits.
Many thanks,

Nick

[grovenor-2685]

Thank you Paul for your support I purchased new buffers for the wagons which really do improve the look a great deal. I hope to put a few photos up on here or RMWeb soon, if that is ok with the admin staff.

Please do put up some photos, we look forward to seeing the results. Preferably here, its going to get confusing if topics switch to RMweb in mid thread. (you can always do both).
Also. I will think of moving this topic to a more suitable place(s) Its getting rather beyond the scope of sales and wants
Regards