P4 Plank

[Bigfish]

Thanks very much for your collective wisdom on “Control systems, interlocking and DCC”.

I am thinking about next steps ie actually making something. All the advice seems to be, make a modest “P4 plank” to try things out, make mistakes where it doesn’t matter, and so on. While I am quite handy at making things in general I have no experience of railway modelling, so the “Plank” would provide an opportunity to try many things out, from making baseboards to track-making, wiring, scenery, buildings etc.

I'd welcome any advice about this based on what you did/didn’t do/wished you had done when you were starting. Size, track layout (ie simple but useful for learning), whatever!

Many thanks

Alan

[John McAleely]

As part of moving to P4, my taste was to produce something prototypical, but on a plank I think that's quite tough. Equally, I worried it was easy to lay down a couple of points (it's just a plank), and end up with something fairly unsatisfying to run (given that there is not enough to be a prototype).

So my own choice has been to go for operation on my plank, and use it as a pure learning vehicle. Are you familiar with the various shunting puzzles?

http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/

My own plank (under construction) is a 5/3/3 inglenook. For me this is an effective way of getting satisfying operation from just two bits of pointwork. I'm leaving a fair amount of space around for some scenery I will research from a real location (more learning!), whilst not actually trying too hard to be that place.

[nigelcliffe]

One way to avoid the "boring plank" is to design a layout in the modular jigsaw manner in various layout design books (in a jigsaw layout the baseboards need not be regular rectangles). Then, chop out one small jigsaw element which may be a couple of sidings. That can be used as the test-plank, and later on, slots into the finished jigsaw.

[Bigfish]

John, no I didn’t know about “shunting puzzles” or “Inglenook”. I’ve just had a quick look at that website and it looks exceedingly interesting and relevant. Many thanks indeed.

Nigel, you have just put your finger on something which I’ve been worrying about i.e. I can see quite a lot of effort going into the “P4 plank” only to have to chuck it away when I’ve learned enough to build a “proper” layout. I recall that Mr Rice’s “Approach to Model Railway Layout Design: Finescale in Small Spaces” has a section on “jigsaw baseboards” and I imagine plenty of other material has been produced since that was published (1990) which I could research. So as you suggest I could just build a part of the layout I had in mind as the “plank”, and then integrate it into the larger thing in due course. I like this idea very much.

As a dedicated armchair modeller for the last 20 years (thus my collection of Wild Swan books, and my deification of Mr Rice and his works) I have toyed with the idea of Ilkeston Town LMS as a suitable LMS (or even Midland) branch line prototype (the Midland doesn’t seem to have been big on branch lines), mostly for sentimental reasons i.e. as a lad I & my late father (who lived there as a boy) built something in TT gauge which vaguely drew on it, and I always fancied doing it again properly. In the process I collected enough photos and materials to be able to have a go at it. The prototype had a nice set of goods sidings, part of which is very similar to “Inglenook”.

Time to do some sketching on squared paper, or even Templot-ing, perhaps.

Chaps, do keep your views coming, this is really helpful!

[Terry Bendall]

One solution to the Plank idea is a loco depot. It has of course been done many times, but that does not matter since there are lots of ideas to choose from and it can be done in any period of railway history. Another possibility is a small industry such as a wagon repair works, also quite common, but allows short trains with lots of possibilities for different types of wagon, or other small industries - rail served factories, clay drys, etc. Croft Depot (Duncan Wilcock) and Fish Dock Road (Gordon Luck), shown at Scaleforum last year are both small layouts that can serve as ideas as can Rodney Hall's Llanastr. Even if you change the context, track plans from existing layouts can be helpful as a starting point. A good source of ideas is Building Micro-layouts by Paul A. Dunn, published by Santona Publications. ISBN 978-1-907094-20-0. Quite a number of the ideas in this book depart from the basic rectangle and are therefore a bit more unusual. However be warned - the track plans are designed fortrain set style turnouts and for P4 a bit more space will be needed.

Terry Bendall

[Bigfish]

Terry, many thanks for that. I like the idea of even the plank having a purpose to give it some operational interest. I'll certainly follow up that reference.

Cheers

Alan

[newport_rod]

Alan
You might also like to look at Realistic Railway Modelling - Layout Design by Iain Rice, pub Haynes ISBN: 978 1 84425 635 8, RRP: £25.00 (or £16.50 from Amazon).
Cheers
Rod

[Bigfish]

Thanks Rod, I've already got that and found it really helpful. In fact finding it in a bookshop a few months ago lead me to go up in the loft and dig out all my other books, including those inspirational Wild Swan volumes by Rice and Norman, and then I decided it was about time to do something rather than just read about it! I've put in an advanced order for his companion volume on locos, which is due out in a little while, apparently. Might have some track by then!

Cheers

Alan

[Terry Bendall]

I decided it was about time to do something rather than just read about it!

An excellent idea. Out of the armchair and do some work! And when the plank is finished you will be welcome to bring it to Scaleforum if you wish.

Terry Bendall

[Bigfish]

Thanks Terry! I'm looking forward to visiting Scalefour North in April, accompanied by my lovely wife - I've almost persuaded her that it's not "railway modelling" but "historical research into transport and its social setting with a practical outcome", and that it's not done by ex-trainspotters with bobble hats....

Alan

[Paul Willis]

Thanks Terry! I'm looking forward to visiting Scalefour North in April, accompanied by my lovely wife - I've almost persuaded her that it's not "railway modelling" but "historical research into transport and its social setting with a practical outcome", and that it's not done by ex-trainspotters with bobble hats....

You're absolutely correct! S4North is a very welcoming place, and they have a cloakroom for bobble-hats next to the ticket desk. You won't see a single one in the show...

HTH
Flymo (who tells his wife it's Industrial Archaeology, and she smiles gently...)

[Tim Hale]

Following a comment by Old Lugger* on another forum, to have a go, I have accepted the challenge to finally build something.

A pair of 1mx.5m boards will have to do but the point of the exercise is to extend my skillset rather than impress others, if I can manage to build reliable turnouts and convert some stock so that they will perform, then I will have succeeded.

A loop with a three sidings should be possible, even in such a small space, if not a Timesaver track plan, it will suffice, though the turnouts will all be rather small. Surely acceptable in an industrial scene?

Rather than attempt to ruin some perfectly good Exactoscale track, PCB construction will be the order of the day operated by nothing more hi-tech than wire in tube.

Finally, I will be able to attend Scaleforum without feeling like an outsider?

Tim

*please PM if you are here.

[Terry Bendall]

A pair of 1mx.5m boards will have to do

They certainly will and a layout which is 2M x 0.5M will be quite a lot bigger than some of those very successful small ones mentioned earlier in this thread.

if I can manage to build reliable turnouts and convert some stock so that they will perform, then I will have succeeded.

You will indeed and even if your aim it not to impress others, you will still have achieved a great deal.

A loop with a three sidings should be possible, even in such a small space, if not a Timesaver track plan, it will suffice, though the turnouts will all be rather small. Surely acceptable in an industrial scene

Of course. Short wheelbase locos on some of the smaller turnouts will be good.

Rather than attempt to ruin some perfectly good Exactoscale track

I would say that with no more than nominal care, you are most unlikely to ruin an Exactoscale turnout, or anyone elses. The advantages of an Exactoscale turnout is that it goes together first time every time and, unless you have done something very silly, will work first time. Building turnouts from scratch on copper clad sleepers and filing your own vees and blades required more skill. Such skills are very useful to learn but take time to perfect. Building an Exactoscale turnout requires no more skills than building an Airfix kit.

And even if your aim is not to impress others, you would still be welcome to bring what you have created to Scaleforum at some stage.

Terry Bendall

[jim s-w]

Terry, many thanks for that. I like the idea of even the plank having a purpose to give it some operational interest. I'll certainly follow up that reference.

Cheers

Alan

I wouldnt. Build a test or build a layout. Dont try to do both as you will end up with something that is neither. My own test plank doesnt work as a layout at all but its still been to loads of shows, just as a demo not a layout (but having said that the big layout has done the same)

Cheers

Jim

[Paul Willis]

Finally, I will be able to attend Scaleforum without feeling like an outsider?

Tim

Tim,

That begs the comment that no one should ever feel like an outsider at Scaleforum!

If nothing else, come up to us on the Society Stand and have a natter...

Flymo