The next phase:

[craig_whilding]

Most nameplates are etched in 5 thou (0.125mm) so you could cut something out of a surround. Tbh I just use pliers and bend the rail once and back again producing the joggle.

Anyway, I think we've derailed the thread from that C16!.

[doggeface]

Far from diverging! It is so useful to read the experiences of others! Sitting here in my sub alpine cave all such gems are drip fed via the forum as opposed to a quick exchange at a club meeting. There is another enthousiast in the village but he is an RTR devotee who considers my efforts to be awesome! The way I suffer with trackbuilding he has the same with electrics.

The efforts have so far raised the points which explained why, in the early days, a bulk rail was preferred and later day why long high speed points have solid nose sections with floors to the grooved ways and solid blocks for the unused way. The third need is a gauging tool which will span intermediate rails but handle gauge widening automatically and pass check rails (even verify the gap on the curve)-- and with a bit of luck apply the solder!

There could be a problem with my test loco. It is a rewheeled Bachmann pannier. I left the non driven axles free to move laterally constrained in the first instance by the con rod spring and ultimately by a brass washer (0.8mm each side). The rear (driven) axle is constrained by the driving gears to about 0.5mm of play. I have been thinking of removing the spacers and replacing them with coil springs on the slaved axles ,now that wheel fixing seems to be sorted, in order to produce a degree of progressive steering force instead of the slap - slap effect. Equally, having opened up the con rod holes to 1.6 to fit the 1.5 Gibson bushes still seems rather tight to me although it is fine on the straight it certainy is not so on the curve and not even repeatable regarding direction. The lack of repeatability is the most frustrating factor which leads to a strong reluctance to bash the wrong bit with the hammer.

[grovenor-2685]

On your curves a pannier should not need any significant sideplay, enough to run freely is enough, suggest you forget springs and put enough washers in to get rid of the sideplay. If you have fibre washers they can be cut and clipped over the axle without needing to remove the wheels.
Regards
Keith

[doggeface]

I do so have ! I will give that a try on the leading axle.

Peter

[doggeface]

Well the efforts have paid off and we have had a successful test run.

see this stupendous feat here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwwDiSgY2is


PIC1323 & PIC 1329 show my little empire --- the only thing that I did not build is the floor!


To get the gauging correct on the curves I used my vernier gauge to give me the outside flange to outside flange distance (19mm) which sits nicely on the rail centre to centre 20mm. It also seemed reasonable in relation to 18.83 on curves which are only 1:8 at the worst. using my curved templates the long curved crossing produced two places where the curve approached this value! I really had not expected the want of 0.17mm to have such an effect on rail holding. As the circumstances for these measurements involve bridging other rails it needs another type of gauge or rather a series of gauges which can accomodate the tighter curves in the yards. Has anyone published the widening figures for a given radius I wonder?

[doggeface]

The final section of the long curved crossing has proved difficult to put into service. After a long struggle i sat down with a nice bottle of South African White and made the decision to lift and relay the minor radius switch from the nose onwards. This has proved to be rather theraputic and has provided a test bed for jointing with half length Peco rail joiners which are then soldered in place (ensuring a smooth transition of the rail) before fixing to the ties. The exercise of cleaning the solder from the lifted rails using a low flame lamp held in a vice took me back to my copperknobbing days during my apprenticeship. This was not out of meanness but more as an exercise!

During this initially traumatic event (an admission of failure is never easily wrung from me) the sections of plain track close by which were my first efforts at chair and glue techniques proceeded to "unglue" themselves at the slightest glance or nudge! The later use of the correct chemically laden PVA cement seems to be more successful (so far).

Tie bars have been a problem but I have made up some from the smallest bore PVA tubing available and 0.8mm brass wire. The centre of the bore is insulated by some plastic 0.8 rod and the assembly fixed by superglue 3. I have yet to study the anti blade lift problem although I reckon that the operating (outer) lengths of the wire should be sufficient as it passes under the stock rail and stubs for the same purpose on the intermediate bracing ties

Another problem which is beginning to irritate is the continuous derailing of P4'd airfix short bogie carriages. I can only assume that either they are all distorted or not as keen to accept "drop in "replacement wheel sets as suggested. I find that the wheels are so close to the bearing faces as to be probably interfering. I will file one out (maybe 20 thou each side) and see if anything changes -- equally the original bogie pivot bearing areas are a little too small for my taste so perhaps something could be improved there. There is no point in using these as test devices if they in turn are not really to a good standard!

[Will L]

Another problem which is beginning to irritate is the continuous derailing of P4'd airfix short bogie carriages.

Hint

Try the bogies individually, that is not attached to the coach. If/when they stay on when left to their own devices put them back on the coach. If they fall off now its because they are too rigidly attached to the coach with insufficient tilt/rock freedom between coach and bogie wheels. Coaches, being relatively long, are sensitive to any twist in your track, including deliberately contrived super elevation, as well as the start and end of any gradients. As you have no suspension on the bogie then you must allow for some pitch back and forward on both bogies, and some rock from side to side on one of them.

That's the theory for any coach. I don't actually re-wheel RtoR stock so somebody else would be better placed to tell you how to achieve that in practice with your coaches.

Will

[allanferguson]

I would reinforce the points (sorry!) made by Keith above. The area through the switches is the most prone to problems of gauge narrowing, particularly on long switches such as your C16. This is mostly because of the difficulty in accurately planing switch blades over such a long length. It is vital to check the gauge at the points indicated, and since it's almost impossible to get most conventional track gauges in there, I use callipers -- in my case digital. Usually I allow a modicum of gauge widening here too for the curved road -- about 18.95 to 19.0 -- mostly guesswork I'm afraid. I reckon a fraction too much gauge widening does no harm, while a fraction too little will cause problems. There's a thought provoking article on this by Russ Elliot "Easing the traverse through Switches" on the CLAG website http://www.clag.org.uk/switch-traverse.html

Switches.jpg

As regards your coaches, assuming the back - to - backs are correct, I'd be inclined to check whether the bogies can rock and roll freely and independently.

[andrew jukes]

Not sure what's seen as 'a conventional track gauge' but our Exactoscale ones (4XX TG01) were designed with just this sort of requirement in mind. I routinely use the +0.1mm one when constructing/assembling switches.

Andrew Jukes
Exactoscale Ltd

[allanferguson]

My apologies, I'm not familiar with the Exactoscale gauges. I was referring to those which, like the traditional three point gauge shown earlier in the thread "grip" the railhead, and therefore cannot be used through the planing. I think I've seen a picture of one of the gauges you refer to, but I can't lay my hands on it. Mea Culpa for not always using the best equipment available!

Allan F

[andrew jukes]

No need to apologise - but the picture is right there in the url you included in your previous posting!
See http://www.clag.org.uk/switch-traverse.html

Andrew

[Tim V]

Another problem which is beginning to irritate is the continuous derailing of P4'd airfix short bogie carriages. I can only assume that either they are all distorted or not as keen to accept "drop in "replacement wheel sets as suggested. I find that the wheels are so close to the bearing faces as to be probably interfering. I will file one out (maybe 20 thou each side) and see if anything changes -- equally the original bogie pivot bearing areas are a little too small for my taste so perhaps something could be improved there. There is no point in using these as test devices if they in turn are not really to a good standard!

Most likely (other than dodgy wheels), it's the wheels contacting the back of the solebars. Take the bogies off, and look for witness(rub) marks on the inside of the frames. Next likely, it's the interaction between coaches - the couplings interfere between the coaches. Investigate that. Then have you added any weight?

My short wheelbase Airfix bogies run fine with drop in wheel sets and no extra weight - but they are the Branchlines/DC kits all metal wheels that have been discussed many times on this forum.

[doggeface]

That sounds like my thoughts in action. I am not over convinced of the correct diameter of the wheels either - what size are yours?

Peter

[craig_whilding]

That sounds like my thoughts in action. I am not over convinced of the correct diameter of the wheels either - what size are yours?

Peter

They should be 3' 7 1/2" in reality though the originals may have been 14mm instead and Tim's replacements will be 14mm looking at the ones I have. Kean Maygib coach wheels are spot on 14.5mm. Gibson wheels are something like 14.3mm from what I remember.

Twist can play a bit part if you don't have one of the bogies that can rock laterally. Bachmann commonwealth bogies and a club members Derby Lightweight DMU demonstrated this nicely over some of the fiddleyard connections on the club layout which need sticking down firmly yet.

[doggeface]

Well the year is almost ended and I had thought that my wayward long curved turnout would carry on it's antics into the next year ! Last evening I managed to finish the reconstruction of the second half the long curved cross over. In the process I developed a level which easily indicated where out of level rail existed amongst multiple converging track sections. To this end I also needed other than standard gauges due to the rather overlong run of close rail lengths on the departing inner curve. These curves pose great problems (for me) as they are accessible from one side only. This has been partly overcome by the purchase of a long angle poise lamp (lidl 14€) which enables hands free rear illumination. The problems of sudden dips and lifts in the track alignment became much easier to find (soldered track) but it did call for the manufacture of narrow width two fanged gauges to cope with gauging the long run of very slowly diverging curved track.

Today (30th Dec) saw the first clear run on a rebuilt C16 cross over. Apart from some out of gauge problems in way of moving blade areas the commonest difficulty proved to be the continuous rail jointing and alignments . The horizontal alignments on the curve needed treatment similar to stroking the old post office relay arms (only geriatrics like me will have had to do that) but the end to end transitions all seemed to take a nose dive -- often sufficient to leave a wheel flange free to pass over the rail at that spot. This gap was readily shown with the aid of the angle poise!

The synopsis of this is: That which occupied me for over a week rebuilding one end of the crossover was reduced to 1 1/2 days on the other more difficult end.
Another asset was the ability to power test each piece of relaid track progressively. The test train of a Bachmann Pannier and one Hornby Mk1 carriage with totally dissimilar couplings in both push and pull modes provided the most demanding test train as that combo is absolutely unforgiving! I am quite certain that a fully sprung loco and train would have ignored if not forgiven my stumbling errors!

May I wish you all a super modelling New Year!

Peter
Montarlot
France