The great Start

[doggeface]

Well having read everything which seemed pertinent I ordered up my sleepers, rivets, gauge and rail. (and all the little things like fishplates and droppers ). Here I assumed that droppers were a device for underwiring to rails. My first problem was the template for 60 ft GWR sections. There was no way that it was ever going to translate into 4mm scale and my computer acurately told me that it was scaling at 97% . PDF format defeats my puny efforts at change!
Having seen the PVC jig (and cunningly realising that every type of track demands it's own jig) I set out to cut and glue for my chosen format. There was plenty of time for this because Jeremy had sent off almost everything quicksticks . The postal system had other ideas and delayed the pack of rail by 10 more days. The rivet punch never materialised so I modified a narrow pin punch and went to it.
At this point I found myself in rhetorical mode -- is there anything more stultifying than inserting rivets into skinny plywood sleepers? Why has no one written a learned thesis on which side is the "entry" or just how much pratchet like energy is stored in a mini brass rivet aching to escape by flying off into the ether - never to be seen again? At one point the insertion of rivets took over as the almost impossible -- the precurser having been the futile attemps to cut 1mm material to 0.xxxmm to provide the transition spacing for the jig -- I settled for integer values and even then was pressed to see the difference!
The soldering became nightmarish. Having tinned the rivets I discovered that this was definitely a hinderence and would never happen again) the rail became animated and refused to cooperate - especialy as the sleepers appeared to be sinking into the jig. Once most of the rivets were attached and correctly spaced I needed to lift the assembly in order to solder the second half of the 0.5M run. A new sinking feeling took over -- the assembled track had indeed sunk into the jig as the heated rivets ensured. This called for day one, operation one modifications - drilling 2 mm deep clearance holes in way of the rivet bottoms.
The second half assembly -- untinned but fluxxed went quite smoothly but then the rail was now self supporting. I felt quite cocky that only 4 or so solder points had failed! If this had happened in my proffessional life it would have been rated in disaster terms. The plastic chairs ordered from elsewhere at the same time are still hitching a lift somewhere out there and may well turn up with some of the other missing parcels. Getting things done here during July and August is still a problem as every postal system known to man handles the first delayed items last thus ensuring maximum nuisance value to life.
Looking at my little effort sitting in the space provided by my newly butchered OO system and getting a casual "we take three months to deliver" from ultrascale I find my resolve weakening and self accusations containing words like vandal and incompetant are lurking in the recesses. Still who knows ,I may wake up one morning and find dexterity and near genius in equal quantities with my breakfast cereals!

[doggeface]

Dear Peter,

I hope you don't mind a direct message rather than through the forum. As a committee member I have a copy of the membership list so I have your email address and I see you live in France so getting help from local members may not be easy. One reason is that I wanted to send you a picture of a track building jig and I have not yet cracked attaching pictures to posts on the forum.

I have not seen a PVC track building jig before but because it is a plastics material, heat is going to soften the plastic which may have caused some of your problems. The wooden jig in the picture is being used to build flat bottom track on copper clad sleepers but it would do equally well for bull head rail on riveted wooden sleepers. The way I have built plain track is to fix the paper template down to a piece of flat board using clear book covering plastic and then put a piece of double sided tape down which holds the sleepers in place. This of course assumes that the template is correct which yours was not. I then put the sleeper on the tape.

On fitting rivets, I find the best way is to put some on a small piece of flat board. Some will be the right way up and I then move one of these to the edge with tweezers and press the sleeper down onto the rivet with the tweezers, putting one blade of the tweezers on each side of the hole.. You may find that a small round needle file is needed to open the hole but they should fit OK. I always clean the tops of the rivets with one or two strokes of a flat file to remove the oxide layer before soldering and clean the underside of the rail with a glass fibre brush as well.. You may find one of the modern solder creams is better than using a coil of solder. I have always tinned the rivets first but you have to be quick to just put on a very small amount of solder. I also put extra flux on the bottom of the rail.


Terry



I hope that you don't mind my putting this up in open forum but I have made 3 attempts to reply by email only to have AOL pick up it's ball and run away each time.

My post was combined wail of woe and shout of glee but incorporated real points. The following post to this one (the plate glass problem) highlights my failure to think through the consequences of hammered rivets. The problem is solved but the jig is recommended in two track laying digests! Of non scale templates will be a real problem but the jig can form both straight and curved formations so seems a reasonable way to do things. I have to smile when an earnest young man writes recommending an inclination of 1:20 when I am struggling to get it anywhere near upright!

The reasons for self construction are both cost and the challenge. A simple turnout kit at a cost of 3.2 Peco equivalents makes for a strong twitch in my wallet although the track rtr costs seem to be double the Peco OO /HO equivalents but even so is too long for modern postal dimension limits . I found that almost all domestic food boxes are made from 1mm cardboard and my initial fixing will be to that but using adhesive only every 3rd sleeper end. The construction of a simple B7 turnout will decide my fate!

The truth is that I need rapid results due to anno domini!

What problem are you having uploading fotos? My page says "Upload attachment" and then breaks into French instructions like parcour but it all runs pretty quickly although I did find it easy to post a copy too easily and have to start again. The jig you sent through to me is the one I am using (from Jeremy)but being a brand new one does not yet allow the rail head to be gripped -- it will.

All that remains is to order up the bits for a B7 and see what transpires -- it is about 450 miles from here to Londres so no-one will hear my cusses!

Peter

[Tim V]

On track rivets, if you spill some onto a sheet of paper, then gently lift the paper and curl it into a concave curve, rivets on the inside and rotate the paper, you'll find most of the rivets will go upright. It takes a bit of practice, but you'll get the hang of it.

Putting the sleepers onto the rivets, you'll see that the sleepers are punched from one side, put the rivets through the same side.

What period is your model? The GWR didn't really use 60' rails till very late on, mostly it was 44' rails. The remaining part of the Wye Valley was laid in 32' rails when I investigated it for example.

[grovenor-2685]

Peter,
Its a fact of life that almost every trackbuilder has their own favourite tricks, hence recommending one specific method on here will result in several people suggesting that their method is better. However, IMHO you have not used the best methods for ply and rivet. In spite of all that has been written since I still consider that the methods described in detail in the original Protofour Manual remain the best place to start. There are some things in there that I have changed with experience but they are relatively minor and almost entirely related to points rather than plain track.
I did fairly recently build a spare turnout for the express purpose of photographing it so perhaps I should make the remaining effort and post the results.
Meanwhile you may find a bit of interest here http://www.norgrove.me.uk/shed-relay.html

So far as fitting rivets in the sleepers goes, I use a piece of conti-shelf (only because its smooth, white and I always seem to have off-cuts, any smooth robust surface will do, bit of ply with a white paper on top would be fine) on a tray on my knee in front of the tele. I scatter a couple of dozen rivets on the board, then using the end of a sleeper pull a few into a line, some maybe head down, most will not, but just gently teasing them with the sleeper end will soon have the whole row nicely on end. Then I work along the row putting the sleepers over the rivets. At the end of the row tease out another row and repeat.
Its a bit like riding a bike, once you get it its easy. And the tray should catch all the rebellious rivets that fall of the edge of the conti board.
Regards
Keith

[doggeface]

I did actually manage to find a pair of specs which enabled me to identify the punch entry side on the sleepers which made life simpler. It still beats me where the flyers go though. When I do look closely for them there is always something such as brush springs which have dodged weeks of clean-ups.
Having both friends and family who claim occult powers I shall invite them to arrange my rivets in the correct orientation.

Peter

[Will L]

... It still beats me where the flyers go though. When I do look closely for them there is always something such as brush springs which have dodged weeks of clean-ups.
Having both friends and family who claim occult powers I shall invite them to arrange my rivets in the correct orientation.

Are, another devote of the Great Carpet God (GCG). See the paragraph labelled "Theological Diversion" in this post.

I find the GCG will readily accept small springs, 14ba nuts, motor mounting screws crankpin washers, small castings and etched components etc. at any time. About once a week he will consider the sacrifice of any size of nut and bolt, small sub assembles, castings and drills bits. On special day he will even find a place for needle files, paint brushes. six inch steel rules files and even half a loco.

Will

[DougN]

Will, the Great Carpet God can have another more devilish daity in shape of the Polished Floor Lord. (PFL) who will accept any offering and attempting to hide them approximatley 3 to 8metres away under its Arch Angel Furniture or its lower Angels Dust Bunnies.... However it doesn't accept as many offerings as the GCG in that they can be found with in 2 hours of bowed head knealing.

Can I suggest that a Rare Earth magnet be used to find steel items in the GCG. I have used one before and found it very effective.

BTW Peter you are doing well keep at it. I havn't done much in the way of track building using the P&R technique but perserverance is the only way to go!