Before making the folds in your 'Hold and Fold' do you ease the half etch to make it deeper to ensure you get an easier and crisper fold
Dave
P4 Starter Pack A: 16T Steel Mineral Wagon
Re: A wagon tutorial
A question m'Lord.
Before making the folds in your 'Hold and Fold' do you ease the half etch to make it deeper to ensure you get an easier and crisper fold
Dave
Before making the folds in your 'Hold and Fold' do you ease the half etch to make it deeper to ensure you get an easier and crisper fold
Dave
-
Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Before beginning this short session I should answer Dave K's question. I don't normally work the fold with anything prior to folding but it does depend on the thickness of the etch and the hardness of the brass used in it. I find that most modern etches are fine to fold without any prior action, even the sturdier stuff used for loco chassis, etc. and the sort of etches I'm using here are no problem to work with. Like, I suspect, many of us, I do have some older stuff upon which a little easing of the folds is always helpful. In these cases, a little work with the edge of a trianglular file, or knife edge file, should do the trick.
Life got in the way a little last night, so this is a relatively short session.
The next job is to add the vertical parts of the T-section that go to make up the body fixing brackets. I did take a picture of the tinned parts prior to soldering, to show how little solder is required, but I seem to have made it disappear. Don't ask how! Anyway, what is first required is some delicate tinning of the parts. Lightly tin the underside of the horizontal part of the T section and do likewise to the top edge of the vertical section. There is a tab on this latter part which inserts in a small slot in the solebar. Flux the area to be joined, hold the vertical part in a pair of tweezers in the required alignment, and touch the horizontal section with the soldering iron. There may be a little cleaning up required but if you have been careful when tinning the parts, there will be very little and a few gentle strokes with a fine file should do the trick. Don't forget to clean it afterwards. On this chassis, you will have to repeat this exercise 8 times, so you should be adept by then.
We now come to the bit where we make up the suspension and the component parts are shown here. The brass bearing plates come from the chassis kit, the spring wire is number 8 guitar string, again, supplied in the kit. (I bought so many, I got the whole string!) and the bearings are Exactoscale's parallel ones, which have become my preferred ones. You can, of course, use the bearings of your choice, there is only a minor difference between pin point and parallel bearings when it comes to construction and I will dealt with this in due course.
A bearing soldered in place in the carrier. Another of my wooden aids is also shown. This one has a 2mm. hole drilled in it, in order that the bearing carrier can lie flat whilst the bearing is inserted and then soldered in place. It also serves to hold the bearing carrier whilst the spring wire is soldered in place, as shown below. I cut a 20mm. length of wire for each spring. The instructions recommend having a spring length of 7mm. either side of the bearing carrier. A 20mm. length will give you around 8mm. either side but I have not, as yet, found this to be a problem. Importantly, use a pair of Xuron cutters on this wire as it will mangle ordinary wire cutters. I am not in the business of forcing anyone to spend their hard earned but, in this case, its a good investment.
Lastly, here are the finished springs, waiting for a clean up.
Finally, a word on the soldering of spring steel wire to brass, or nickel silver, for that matter. Much musing has taken place over the difficulty of doing this and the special fluxes needed to achieve a secure bond. I have used Laco flux, a yellow greasy like substance, which can be washed off with water (although I've found that it really takes a domestic cleaner, hot water and a toothbrush, to do it effectively). I have NEVER had a joint fail, so don't get too hung up on special fluxes and the like.
That's it this time. Hopefully I will get a little more done tonight, which I should be able to post later or tomorrow sometime.
Life got in the way a little last night, so this is a relatively short session.
The next job is to add the vertical parts of the T-section that go to make up the body fixing brackets. I did take a picture of the tinned parts prior to soldering, to show how little solder is required, but I seem to have made it disappear. Don't ask how! Anyway, what is first required is some delicate tinning of the parts. Lightly tin the underside of the horizontal part of the T section and do likewise to the top edge of the vertical section. There is a tab on this latter part which inserts in a small slot in the solebar. Flux the area to be joined, hold the vertical part in a pair of tweezers in the required alignment, and touch the horizontal section with the soldering iron. There may be a little cleaning up required but if you have been careful when tinning the parts, there will be very little and a few gentle strokes with a fine file should do the trick. Don't forget to clean it afterwards. On this chassis, you will have to repeat this exercise 8 times, so you should be adept by then.
We now come to the bit where we make up the suspension and the component parts are shown here. The brass bearing plates come from the chassis kit, the spring wire is number 8 guitar string, again, supplied in the kit. (I bought so many, I got the whole string!) and the bearings are Exactoscale's parallel ones, which have become my preferred ones. You can, of course, use the bearings of your choice, there is only a minor difference between pin point and parallel bearings when it comes to construction and I will dealt with this in due course.
A bearing soldered in place in the carrier. Another of my wooden aids is also shown. This one has a 2mm. hole drilled in it, in order that the bearing carrier can lie flat whilst the bearing is inserted and then soldered in place. It also serves to hold the bearing carrier whilst the spring wire is soldered in place, as shown below. I cut a 20mm. length of wire for each spring. The instructions recommend having a spring length of 7mm. either side of the bearing carrier. A 20mm. length will give you around 8mm. either side but I have not, as yet, found this to be a problem. Importantly, use a pair of Xuron cutters on this wire as it will mangle ordinary wire cutters. I am not in the business of forcing anyone to spend their hard earned but, in this case, its a good investment.
Lastly, here are the finished springs, waiting for a clean up.
Finally, a word on the soldering of spring steel wire to brass, or nickel silver, for that matter. Much musing has taken place over the difficulty of doing this and the special fluxes needed to achieve a secure bond. I have used Laco flux, a yellow greasy like substance, which can be washed off with water (although I've found that it really takes a domestic cleaner, hot water and a toothbrush, to do it effectively). I have NEVER had a joint fail, so don't get too hung up on special fluxes and the like.
That's it this time. Hopefully I will get a little more done tonight, which I should be able to post later or tomorrow sometime.
The second best priest
Re: A wagon tutorial
Lord Colnago wrote:Finally, a word on the soldering of spring steel wire to brass, or nickel silver, for that matter. Much musing has taken place over the difficulty of doing this and the special fluxes needed to achieve a secure bond. I have used Laco flux, a yellow greasy like substance, which can be washed off with water (although I've found that it really takes a domestic cleaner, hot water and a toothbrush, to do it effectively). I have NEVER had a joint fail, so don't get too hung up on special fluxes and the like.
The Ernie Ball guitar wire you show is very easy to solder because it is tin plated.
Description here
I use the same for all of my springing requirements as the tin plating also makes them corrosion resistant.
cheers....Morgan
Re: A wagon tutorial
I'm interested in why you prefer parallel bearings to pin points.
Make Worcestershire great again.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.
Build a wall along the Herefordshire border and make them pay for it.
-
Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Quite a long session coming up this time. I have advanced the chassis to the point where the castings can be added but before proceeding a few points to address.
Firstly, thanks Morgan. Your explanation certainly explains why the guitar wire is so easy to solder. You caused me a little concern though, as I feared that where I had used the flux on stainless steel in the past, there might, by now, have been an adverse reaction. I have used the flux to solder bearings into the original spring carriers produced in stainless steel by Masokits, and to strengthen the fold line. I had to dig into the box of wagons that I had packed away when I moved from London (some 8 years ago!) in order to find a few that had been fitted with the original springing units. I was genuinely surprised to find that they looked as good as new, there had been no reaction of any kind and none of the bearings had come adrift. I took the following just to double check and gave the wire shown a good tug at either end just to test the joint. It does all seem fine.
Secondly, Andy W asked why I use parallel bearings. I first used them just to try them out. I found that it was a little easier to eliminate sideplay on the axle but, most of all, I rather liked the way the vehicle ran. At the DRAG-organised AGM a few years ago, I ran a rake of wagons, all fitted with these bearings, and felt that they moved prototypically. All this is only my opinion, of course, and whilst I would recommend them to anyone interested in giving them a go, it is a matter of personal choice at the end of the day.
Lastly, it has been put to me that it makes for a lot less cleaning up if one solders the bearing in place whilst the etched carrier is still attached to the fret. This certainly has merit and I will look to try it out next time. It was suggested that I put the bearing in place in the etch, flux the joint and touch the iron to the etch at the base of the bearing, allowing the solder to find its way around the rest of the bearing. Like I say, sound advice. Just try not to get any solder on the rear face of the carrier as it may hinder the operation of the springing in the W-Iron slot. It shouldn't really happen, but there's always Sod's Law.
So, to business. Next up are the wagon tie bars, which in this instance involves four individual ones, rather that the type that connect between the W-Irons on each side. I find it easier to pass the 0.3mm. wire through the holes at the base of each W-Iron, all the way across and through the hole in the opposite one. I then reach for the fag papers and thread each wire through a small piece, which is folded over each W-Iron and the wire threaded through the other side as well. Its not really necessary to thread the wire through the paper on either side of the W-Iron, that's just belt and braces on my part and its pretty fiddly as well. Threading it through the outer face would suffice. The following photo shows how things are set up and probably explain it a whole lot better than I can.
Next, fit the individual tie bars in place over the wires, hard against the fag paper and W-Iron. When soldering in place, I hold them with tweezers. Before soldering however, brush some light oil, such as clock oil, onto the fag paper, ensuring the the area around where you are going to solder has a good covering. The next photo shows how this looks.
The next photo shows how things should look after soldering the tie bars in place, removing the oiled paper, folding the ends around the W-Irons and cutting the wires. I have found it easier to fold the outer ends of the tie bar around the W-Iron after soldering to the wires, contrary to the instructions. You can run into fitting problems if you make the folds too tight. Folding afterwards makes life easier.
The next one shows how the finished job looks. I leave the wires longer than they need to be for now as it allows better handling when cleaning up after soldering. The wires need to be cut short on the outside. Leave them a little proud and file down to replicate the securing bolts.
I feel that there are really only two awkward areas to be overcome with this chassis and one comes next, the brakes themselves. As long as you take your time, go carefully and follow the instructions though, you'll be fine. The next photo shows the brakes on the fret. You will notice the letter M on the fret. This indicates which brake fret to use on the clutch side of Morton brakes, but in this case, there are only two brake shoes, which will go on this side of the wagon.
The next shot shows one side of the brake arrangement, removed from the fret, with various holes drilled out 0.3mm., into which wire will be soldered to represent the various bolts.
This now needs to be folded up and I have chosen to show each fold with its own photograph as it makes everything much clearer than any description from myself. Firstly, the outer brake shoes are folded over on to the main etch, like so.
There now come three folds, two on the inside of the fold line and one, the last one, with the fold on the outside of the line. Here's the first one.
And the second.
And the last one.
You should now have the brake shoe in four layers and the holes you drilled earlier should pretty much align, if you have got it right. Pass a length of 0.3mm. wire through these holes and squeeze the layers together in a pair of tweezers and solder them together. Solder the wire in place, cut it back on either side and file the ends down a little to represent the bolts. Also run some solder into the "foot" of the etch to strengthen it up a bit. File the brake shoes a little to get rid of the layered look and then it should look something like this.
The other end is simply a repeat job. Next job is to make up the tumbler that connects the two brake frets together and through which the operating shaft passes. For this job, its back to the block of wood. Firstly, drill out the holes in the tumbler 0.3mm. Now place the etch face down and drill through the holes in the etch and into the block of wood. Don't let the etch move and place two wire pins through the etch and into the holes in the wood. Remove one of the other tumbler etches and place it over the two pins and down onto the other part. Solder the layers together and the wire pins in place. This is how it looks, prior to adding the second layer and again, explains it better than me.
This is how the finished item should look.
We now have to solder the brake assembly into the chassis. Each assembly is soldered in place and then the tumbler is worked into position. This shows the first brake shoe assembly soldered in place.
There are two slots in the chassis into which the tab on the brake shoe assembly goes. The outer slot is for P4 models and the inner for EM and, I think, OO. This slightly out of focus shot hopefully shows what I mean.
This shot shows both shoe assemblies in place.
The next photo shows the tumbler in place on the lower brake rods. The inner and outer parts are pushed apart and the wire pivots on the tumbler are worked into the pre-drilled holes and the inner and outer parts pushed back together.
Its slightly more fiddly to put the tumbler in place on the other assembly but, once in place, the whole assembly can be tweaked so that the hole in the tumbler more or less aligns with the hole in the V-hanger. At this point, I place the brake shaft in position as this ensures the afore-mentioned alignment. All can now be safely soldered in place and this photo shows it.
To finish off the brake assembly, the safety loops need to be fitted. This is easier to do in two stages. This shows the first stage.
And this one shows the second stage with the last fold finished off and soldered in place.
The final job for this session is the fitting of the coupling pockets. I cut the end of a cocktail stick to a rectangular shape, such that the etched pocket sits over it and the stick is then used to hold the pocket in place whilst it is soldered. This photo shows what I mean and the second one shows how it is used.
Next up, I shall fettle up the castings for the axleboxes and springs and once fitted, move on to the brake lever guards and the levers themselves. I might even get the buffers on but don't hold your breath. In any case, we're almost there.
Firstly, thanks Morgan. Your explanation certainly explains why the guitar wire is so easy to solder. You caused me a little concern though, as I feared that where I had used the flux on stainless steel in the past, there might, by now, have been an adverse reaction. I have used the flux to solder bearings into the original spring carriers produced in stainless steel by Masokits, and to strengthen the fold line. I had to dig into the box of wagons that I had packed away when I moved from London (some 8 years ago!) in order to find a few that had been fitted with the original springing units. I was genuinely surprised to find that they looked as good as new, there had been no reaction of any kind and none of the bearings had come adrift. I took the following just to double check and gave the wire shown a good tug at either end just to test the joint. It does all seem fine.
Secondly, Andy W asked why I use parallel bearings. I first used them just to try them out. I found that it was a little easier to eliminate sideplay on the axle but, most of all, I rather liked the way the vehicle ran. At the DRAG-organised AGM a few years ago, I ran a rake of wagons, all fitted with these bearings, and felt that they moved prototypically. All this is only my opinion, of course, and whilst I would recommend them to anyone interested in giving them a go, it is a matter of personal choice at the end of the day.
Lastly, it has been put to me that it makes for a lot less cleaning up if one solders the bearing in place whilst the etched carrier is still attached to the fret. This certainly has merit and I will look to try it out next time. It was suggested that I put the bearing in place in the etch, flux the joint and touch the iron to the etch at the base of the bearing, allowing the solder to find its way around the rest of the bearing. Like I say, sound advice. Just try not to get any solder on the rear face of the carrier as it may hinder the operation of the springing in the W-Iron slot. It shouldn't really happen, but there's always Sod's Law.
So, to business. Next up are the wagon tie bars, which in this instance involves four individual ones, rather that the type that connect between the W-Irons on each side. I find it easier to pass the 0.3mm. wire through the holes at the base of each W-Iron, all the way across and through the hole in the opposite one. I then reach for the fag papers and thread each wire through a small piece, which is folded over each W-Iron and the wire threaded through the other side as well. Its not really necessary to thread the wire through the paper on either side of the W-Iron, that's just belt and braces on my part and its pretty fiddly as well. Threading it through the outer face would suffice. The following photo shows how things are set up and probably explain it a whole lot better than I can.
Next, fit the individual tie bars in place over the wires, hard against the fag paper and W-Iron. When soldering in place, I hold them with tweezers. Before soldering however, brush some light oil, such as clock oil, onto the fag paper, ensuring the the area around where you are going to solder has a good covering. The next photo shows how this looks.
The next photo shows how things should look after soldering the tie bars in place, removing the oiled paper, folding the ends around the W-Irons and cutting the wires. I have found it easier to fold the outer ends of the tie bar around the W-Iron after soldering to the wires, contrary to the instructions. You can run into fitting problems if you make the folds too tight. Folding afterwards makes life easier.
The next one shows how the finished job looks. I leave the wires longer than they need to be for now as it allows better handling when cleaning up after soldering. The wires need to be cut short on the outside. Leave them a little proud and file down to replicate the securing bolts.
I feel that there are really only two awkward areas to be overcome with this chassis and one comes next, the brakes themselves. As long as you take your time, go carefully and follow the instructions though, you'll be fine. The next photo shows the brakes on the fret. You will notice the letter M on the fret. This indicates which brake fret to use on the clutch side of Morton brakes, but in this case, there are only two brake shoes, which will go on this side of the wagon.
The next shot shows one side of the brake arrangement, removed from the fret, with various holes drilled out 0.3mm., into which wire will be soldered to represent the various bolts.
This now needs to be folded up and I have chosen to show each fold with its own photograph as it makes everything much clearer than any description from myself. Firstly, the outer brake shoes are folded over on to the main etch, like so.
There now come three folds, two on the inside of the fold line and one, the last one, with the fold on the outside of the line. Here's the first one.
And the second.
And the last one.
You should now have the brake shoe in four layers and the holes you drilled earlier should pretty much align, if you have got it right. Pass a length of 0.3mm. wire through these holes and squeeze the layers together in a pair of tweezers and solder them together. Solder the wire in place, cut it back on either side and file the ends down a little to represent the bolts. Also run some solder into the "foot" of the etch to strengthen it up a bit. File the brake shoes a little to get rid of the layered look and then it should look something like this.
The other end is simply a repeat job. Next job is to make up the tumbler that connects the two brake frets together and through which the operating shaft passes. For this job, its back to the block of wood. Firstly, drill out the holes in the tumbler 0.3mm. Now place the etch face down and drill through the holes in the etch and into the block of wood. Don't let the etch move and place two wire pins through the etch and into the holes in the wood. Remove one of the other tumbler etches and place it over the two pins and down onto the other part. Solder the layers together and the wire pins in place. This is how it looks, prior to adding the second layer and again, explains it better than me.
This is how the finished item should look.
We now have to solder the brake assembly into the chassis. Each assembly is soldered in place and then the tumbler is worked into position. This shows the first brake shoe assembly soldered in place.
There are two slots in the chassis into which the tab on the brake shoe assembly goes. The outer slot is for P4 models and the inner for EM and, I think, OO. This slightly out of focus shot hopefully shows what I mean.
This shot shows both shoe assemblies in place.
The next photo shows the tumbler in place on the lower brake rods. The inner and outer parts are pushed apart and the wire pivots on the tumbler are worked into the pre-drilled holes and the inner and outer parts pushed back together.
Its slightly more fiddly to put the tumbler in place on the other assembly but, once in place, the whole assembly can be tweaked so that the hole in the tumbler more or less aligns with the hole in the V-hanger. At this point, I place the brake shaft in position as this ensures the afore-mentioned alignment. All can now be safely soldered in place and this photo shows it.
To finish off the brake assembly, the safety loops need to be fitted. This is easier to do in two stages. This shows the first stage.
And this one shows the second stage with the last fold finished off and soldered in place.
The final job for this session is the fitting of the coupling pockets. I cut the end of a cocktail stick to a rectangular shape, such that the etched pocket sits over it and the stick is then used to hold the pocket in place whilst it is soldered. This photo shows what I mean and the second one shows how it is used.
Next up, I shall fettle up the castings for the axleboxes and springs and once fitted, move on to the brake lever guards and the levers themselves. I might even get the buffers on but don't hold your breath. In any case, we're almost there.
The second best priest
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steamraiser
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
How many chassis are you building?
In one series of photos you fit the retaining bars across the bottom of the W-irons.
In the next step relating to folding the brakes the retaining bars are not fitted to the bottom of the W-irons?????
Keep up the good work.
Gordon
In one series of photos you fit the retaining bars across the bottom of the W-irons.
In the next step relating to folding the brakes the retaining bars are not fitted to the bottom of the W-irons?????
Keep up the good work.
Gordon
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Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Hi Gordon,
Don't worry, there is only one. This time!
I put the tie bars to one side until the wheels go in as the carpet god has a taste for them!
John.
Don't worry, there is only one. This time!
I put the tie bars to one side until the wheels go in as the carpet god has a taste for them!
John.
The second best priest
Re: A wagon tutorial
Another great part of the tutorial. I have already learned quite alot from this, It doesn't seem too complicated just fiddly I guess but I see how it's all coming together
Re: A wagon tutorial
Lord Colnago wrote:Hi Gordon,
Don't worry, there is only one. This time!
I put the tie bars to one side until the wheels go in as the carpet god has a taste for them!
John.
You know, I do a wee piddle in laughter everytime I hear of the carpet god.
A few of my washers and bits have succumbed to him.Good instalment. The brake gear is a little confusing knowing which way to twist things but I have no doubt having them on my own desk would reveal the answer. So far nothing looks hard so I'm encoraged to do one some point.
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320
Re: A wagon tutorial
I have found to banish the Carpet god from the railway room is a good idea. I have a new daiety which is slightly more forgiving of droped offerings and that is the floorboards. Unfortunately it rather than eating, transports the item as far away as possible.
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling
Still not doing enough modelling
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steamraiser
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
I find my carpet god, after suitable homage is given, crawling around on my hands and knees for 10 minutes, usually reveals the missing part and a few other small bits such as the odd 14 BA nut.
Gordon
Gordon
Re: A wagon tutorial
!'ve tried the temples of both Carpet and Floorboard, but with ever-stiffening knees it is the genuflexion that brings increasing discomfort. Time, I think, to convert to the sedentary cult of Apron-Velcroed-Under-Workbench!
David L-T
-
John Palmer
- Posts: 514
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:09 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
My floorboard god has an additional nasty trick up his sleeve: an audio displacement capability that causes the 'click!' as a tiny component hits the floor adjacent to my left foot to be displaced to somewhere behind my right shoulder. He has also just claimed in tribute a beautifully turned Salter safety valve stem, but I fooled him on that one 'cause it's too short and I have to make a replacement anyway.
Really enjoying this thread. Your lordship appears to be removing the etch cusp, even from such finery as the brake pushrods. Do you do that whilst they are still attached to the etch, when in place on the vehicle, or even as separate components? And is this a filing job or wet and dry? Easy to introduce distortion into pieces this small, however you go about it.
Really enjoying this thread. Your lordship appears to be removing the etch cusp, even from such finery as the brake pushrods. Do you do that whilst they are still attached to the etch, when in place on the vehicle, or even as separate components? And is this a filing job or wet and dry? Easy to introduce distortion into pieces this small, however you go about it.
-
Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Well, it does seem that the carpet god is in all places at all times.
John, you ask a really good question. My tendency is to remove the parts first. Whichever way you do it, you will need to remove the residues of the tabs so you may as well cut the part out. With the more delicate parts, try angling your file along the length of the part rather than filing across it. In some cases you can file along it anyway, providing there is sufficient of it to hold.
The instructions for this chassis recommend tidying the brake etches up after constructing them. Obviously, this gives a stronger assembly to work with and is a good idea as long as, once constructed, you can still get access to the parts to be cleaned up.
I tend to use fine files for this job rather than wet and dry as I'm happier using them on the thin edges we're dealing with here. Go gently though. I once removed the cusps from a loco chassis frame spacer only to then watch it drop straight through the frames!
John, you ask a really good question. My tendency is to remove the parts first. Whichever way you do it, you will need to remove the residues of the tabs so you may as well cut the part out. With the more delicate parts, try angling your file along the length of the part rather than filing across it. In some cases you can file along it anyway, providing there is sufficient of it to hold.
The instructions for this chassis recommend tidying the brake etches up after constructing them. Obviously, this gives a stronger assembly to work with and is a good idea as long as, once constructed, you can still get access to the parts to be cleaned up.
I tend to use fine files for this job rather than wet and dry as I'm happier using them on the thin edges we're dealing with here. Go gently though. I once removed the cusps from a loco chassis frame spacer only to then watch it drop straight through the frames!
The second best priest
-
Mike Garwood
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
"Carpet God", sounds almost Pratchettesque!
On a more serious note, having built a few of these - granted for BR vans - this is proving to be a worthwhile read. Better construction ideas are always worth watching. Certainly the good Lord C has given some thought to a methodology of construction and I'm going to nick some of the ideas! Excellent stuff!
Mike
On a more serious note, having built a few of these - granted for BR vans - this is proving to be a worthwhile read. Better construction ideas are always worth watching. Certainly the good Lord C has given some thought to a methodology of construction and I'm going to nick some of the ideas! Excellent stuff!
Mike
Re: A wagon tutorial
All hail the Carpet God
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/
Re: A wagon tutorial
HAha. absolutely loving the banter here.
Now are you physically bowing down to it/him to offer a crank pin or are you just meticulously looking for it?
Now are you physically bowing down to it/him to offer a crank pin or are you just meticulously looking for it?
“He who dares not offend cannot be honest.” Thomas Paine
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/sparksho ... eationsscc
Mostly offering Loco kits & bits in 4mm.
SCC Photon Resin Prints Price list
download/file.php?id=19320
Re: A wagon tutorial
One kneels afore the mighty Carpet God.
The words of grace and worship doth pass though ones lips.
"Stupid bl##dy thing, stupid bl##dy thing, were the f*ck/hell are you... "
Knee pads are not allowed and if one wears a pinny, then you are damned as a smarty trews...
Ahem
The words of grace and worship doth pass though ones lips.
"Stupid bl##dy thing, stupid bl##dy thing, were the f*ck/hell are you... "
Knee pads are not allowed and if one wears a pinny, then you are damned as a smarty trews...
Ahem
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/
Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
Robert Fripp
https://www.facebook.com/groups/PadgateWorks/
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Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
The Carpet God has one serious flaw. He never catches anything that I throw at him!
The second best priest
Re: A wagon tutorial
Lord Colnago wrote:The Carpet God has one serious flaw. He never catches anything that I throw at him!
Oh but he does, he just doesn't keep wast he catches, just deposits them on another piece of floor well way from the place you original aimed(?) at.
Re: A wagon tutorial
Mike Garwood wrote:"Carpet God", sounds almost Pratchettesque!
Probably with good reason. Those who have read the appropriate Disk World volume (Small Gods - -definitely one of my favourites) will appreciate that the power and presence of any deity is directly proportional to the number of believers. We should beware that this thread could up well cause the the GCG to up his game. At least he isn't now so dependant on me for his continued existence.
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Mike Garwood
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:51 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Will L wrote:Mike Garwood wrote:"Carpet God", sounds almost Pratchettesque!
Probably with good reason. Those who have read the appropriate Disk World volume (Small Gods - -definitely one of my favourites) will appreciate that the power and presence of any deity is directly proportional to the number of believers. We should beware that this thread could up well cause the the GCG to up his game. At least he isn't now so dependant on me for his continued existence.
Well the Carpet God has a good start on others as he's/she's got 1872 followers - at least I think that was the number of members in the society.
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Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
Well that's rich. I've just been asked to log in to post on my own tutorial! Not sure what's going on there.
Anyway, for the time being, let's leave the church of the carpet god until the next time we're called to worship!
Its time to deal with the castings. I usually use seperate spring and axlebox castings as I have plenty of them. I do have a small stock of combined spring and axlebox castings and as this is meant to be a simple construction I thought it might be best to use them on this occasion. There is no extra work involved in either method, so all this holds good for both. Let's start by having a look at the castings as supplied.
There's a reasonable amount of work involved and the key is to take it gently, especially as the castings get more fragile as you progress. The first job is to cut the slots in the back of the axleboxes which allow the bearings to rise and fall in the W-Iron slots. I use the tool shown in the next photo in a Dremel mini-drill. I set it just below 2 on the speed range, which isn't a lot of help to you if you use a different mini-drill! This speed on my drill is sufficiently slow to allow me to lightly hold the tool whilst it revolves, without ripping my fingers apart. I hope this describes an approximation of the speed required and just because I'm stupid enough to judge it that way, doesn't mean that you have to! You just need sufficient speed to do the job but not so much that the tool tries to spin itself away from the work.
The next shot shows a before and after view and should give you an idea of the size of slot required. Always, and I can't emphasise this enough, always cut a deeper and wider slot than you think you need. When using parallel bearings, there isn't much bearing protruding through the W-Iron, but its surprising how often they will catch on the casting. I have learnt this the hard way so that you don't have to.
Next, remove the "tabs" as shown below.
The next job involves the removal of the raised ends of the casting, you can see these below.
This is how it should look afterwards.
The final job is to remove the remaining bit of casting at the back of the spring shoe as seen below. You may find that you need to do a little straightening out of the casting after this as the spring may develop a slight bend through handling and the spring shoes may need a slight re-align after all the filing that's been going on around them. Go very gently, as now is not the time when you want a casting to break. If it does, you will extend your vocabulary!
OK, that's the castings prepared, almost. Our prototype wagon is fitted with BR two part axleboxes, whilst the castings we have just prepared are RCH ones. They are fairly similar but a little filling is required in order to give us a better approximation of the BR type. I believe Wizard/51L do a casting of this type of axlebox. This has the plate used on heavy duty axleboxes integrally cast on it. You can file this off, but its a real pain and I find my route a little easier. Use the filler of your choice. I use the one shown below, which is a softish car body filler and I find it ideal for this type of job. One tube should be a lifetime's supply.
On an RCH axlebox, there is a "groove" in the upper part, which is not present on the BR type that we want. Using a small jeweller's screwdriver or similar, spread some filler across the "groove".
It says on the tube that the filler can be worked after 30 minutes but I tend to leave such things for a great deal longer than recommended, in this case a couple of hours. Then file the excess filler away to leave a smooth top part to the axlebox. This is how the finished article should look, and there's only three more to do!
Before fixing the casting to the chassis, try all four bearings in all four springing slots to ensure that they slide freely. By doing this, you know that, if any of them catch or foul the slot in any way, its down to the casting. You might get away with filing the casting a little but in all probability, you will need to remove the casting. I fix castings with epoxy resin, in this case, the 5 minute type. I use a small amount on the back of the springs at the ends and on the tops of the spring shoes. Align the casting with the spring stop on the chassis, ensuring that the slot in the axlebox doesn't foul the spring slot in the W-Iron. I usually set up some means of holding the chassis so that the castings don't move whilst the glue goes off. Any old bodge will do, as long as it does the job, as you can see.
That's it for now. I have all but finished the model but think its better to cover the rest of the job in small chunks. Later on, circumstances permitting, I'll put up a post covering the construction of the brake lever guards and the brake levers.
Anyway, for the time being, let's leave the church of the carpet god until the next time we're called to worship!
Its time to deal with the castings. I usually use seperate spring and axlebox castings as I have plenty of them. I do have a small stock of combined spring and axlebox castings and as this is meant to be a simple construction I thought it might be best to use them on this occasion. There is no extra work involved in either method, so all this holds good for both. Let's start by having a look at the castings as supplied.
There's a reasonable amount of work involved and the key is to take it gently, especially as the castings get more fragile as you progress. The first job is to cut the slots in the back of the axleboxes which allow the bearings to rise and fall in the W-Iron slots. I use the tool shown in the next photo in a Dremel mini-drill. I set it just below 2 on the speed range, which isn't a lot of help to you if you use a different mini-drill! This speed on my drill is sufficiently slow to allow me to lightly hold the tool whilst it revolves, without ripping my fingers apart. I hope this describes an approximation of the speed required and just because I'm stupid enough to judge it that way, doesn't mean that you have to! You just need sufficient speed to do the job but not so much that the tool tries to spin itself away from the work.
The next shot shows a before and after view and should give you an idea of the size of slot required. Always, and I can't emphasise this enough, always cut a deeper and wider slot than you think you need. When using parallel bearings, there isn't much bearing protruding through the W-Iron, but its surprising how often they will catch on the casting. I have learnt this the hard way so that you don't have to.
Next, remove the "tabs" as shown below.
The next job involves the removal of the raised ends of the casting, you can see these below.
This is how it should look afterwards.
The final job is to remove the remaining bit of casting at the back of the spring shoe as seen below. You may find that you need to do a little straightening out of the casting after this as the spring may develop a slight bend through handling and the spring shoes may need a slight re-align after all the filing that's been going on around them. Go very gently, as now is not the time when you want a casting to break. If it does, you will extend your vocabulary!
OK, that's the castings prepared, almost. Our prototype wagon is fitted with BR two part axleboxes, whilst the castings we have just prepared are RCH ones. They are fairly similar but a little filling is required in order to give us a better approximation of the BR type. I believe Wizard/51L do a casting of this type of axlebox. This has the plate used on heavy duty axleboxes integrally cast on it. You can file this off, but its a real pain and I find my route a little easier. Use the filler of your choice. I use the one shown below, which is a softish car body filler and I find it ideal for this type of job. One tube should be a lifetime's supply.
On an RCH axlebox, there is a "groove" in the upper part, which is not present on the BR type that we want. Using a small jeweller's screwdriver or similar, spread some filler across the "groove".
It says on the tube that the filler can be worked after 30 minutes but I tend to leave such things for a great deal longer than recommended, in this case a couple of hours. Then file the excess filler away to leave a smooth top part to the axlebox. This is how the finished article should look, and there's only three more to do!
Before fixing the casting to the chassis, try all four bearings in all four springing slots to ensure that they slide freely. By doing this, you know that, if any of them catch or foul the slot in any way, its down to the casting. You might get away with filing the casting a little but in all probability, you will need to remove the casting. I fix castings with epoxy resin, in this case, the 5 minute type. I use a small amount on the back of the springs at the ends and on the tops of the spring shoes. Align the casting with the spring stop on the chassis, ensuring that the slot in the axlebox doesn't foul the spring slot in the W-Iron. I usually set up some means of holding the chassis so that the castings don't move whilst the glue goes off. Any old bodge will do, as long as it does the job, as you can see.
That's it for now. I have all but finished the model but think its better to cover the rest of the job in small chunks. Later on, circumstances permitting, I'll put up a post covering the construction of the brake lever guards and the brake levers.
The second best priest
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Lord Colnago
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:42 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
As promised earlier today, another installment in the saga, this time I'm fitting the brake lever guards and the brake levers. I mentioned earlier that there were two tricky areas encountered in building these chassis. (Well, there are for me!). The first was the brake assembly and the second is the brake lever guards. Having said that, once you get used to making them, things become easier. I did adapt the method shown in the instructions to suit my own abilities and that's the method I'll use here.
The first thing to do is to drill the relevant holes in the parts 0.3mm, before removing them from the fret. Once removed, clean up the cusps. Here are the parts involved.
Now fold the small bracket into a U shape and solder it onto the solebar, with the hole at the top. there are two slots in the solebar to assist in this. It should look something like this.
Next, the lever guard needs folding to shape. Study the diagram in the instructions before attempting this. There are a lot of fold lines and most are on the inside but two are on the outside. These are the ones either side of the drilled holes at the top and bottom of the lever guard but, as I say, study the diagram before folding anything. Once folded, it should look like this.
We now return to my favourite block of wood. Drill a 0.3mm. hole close to one of the edges. Place a short length of wire in this hole and then place the W-Iron bracket over it. Now place the lower hole in the lever guard over it as well. There are two different levels to the back of the guard, hence the need to drill the hole close to the edge, in order for it to lie flat whilst this job is performed. Hold these parts at 90 degrees to each other, flux the joint and touch with the soldering iron. Cut the wire back on both sides and file the ends flat to represent the fixing bolt. Now place another short length into the drilled hole and place the top hole in the lever guard over it. Once again, flux and touch with the soldering iron. As before, cut back the wire, but this time on the front only and file to represent the fixing bolt. Leave a short length in place on the rear, say 1.5 to 2mm. which will be inserted into the bracket on the solebar. All this is illustrated in this sequence of photographs. Don't worry about the slightly bent lever guard, its easily sorted.
The next bit can be a little tricky but by constructing the lever guard in this way, it can support itself to an extent, whilst it is soldered in place. The first thing to do is to adjust the W-Iron bracket to the correct angle, such that the lever guard is vertically aligned and parallel to the W-Iron. I hope that's clear but I can't put it any better. I tend to solder the bracket to the W-Iron first and then solder the top of the guard to the solebar bracket. The next sequence of photos show the assembly in place and will hopefully make things clearer.
Before moving on to the brake levers, there is the small matter of the two door springs to fit. These are a simple fold assembly and again, there is a slot in the solebar into which they fit. This is how they should look.
I'm starting with the plain lever on this wagon but it really doesn't make any difference which one you start with. Folding brake levers is a fairly logical process if you think about how the lever moves. They were cranked around the axlebox and again to pass through the lever guard. As long as you do this and ensure that the rest of the lever wouldn't hit anything on the chassis, you will pretty much have it right. Anyway, here's the lever after folding. As you can see, there's a small etch which should be removed from the fret with the lever and then folded behind it. I managed to inadvertantly seperate it, so I had to put it over the brake shaft first and follow it with the lever. Fortunately, it stayed where I put it so soldering it up was releatively straight forward.
Here's the lever in place.
The Morton lever is similarly formed but before forming it we need to return once again to the trusty wooden block. Drill a 0.8mm. hole this time and insert a short length of wire into the hole. Place the lever over it and solder it up. Cut the wire short whilst still in the block and file flat, this time to represent the shaft, upon which it pivots in reality. Leave about 2mm. on the rear face for fixing purposes. You should have something that looks like this.
Now place the clutch, the bit that looks like a comma, on the main brake shaft. I glue the lever in place using 5 minute epoxy, to avoid the soldered joint between the lever and wire coming apart. Here, again, is the lever after gluing in place.
That's it for this session. A bit of variety next time, I feel.
The first thing to do is to drill the relevant holes in the parts 0.3mm, before removing them from the fret. Once removed, clean up the cusps. Here are the parts involved.
Now fold the small bracket into a U shape and solder it onto the solebar, with the hole at the top. there are two slots in the solebar to assist in this. It should look something like this.
Next, the lever guard needs folding to shape. Study the diagram in the instructions before attempting this. There are a lot of fold lines and most are on the inside but two are on the outside. These are the ones either side of the drilled holes at the top and bottom of the lever guard but, as I say, study the diagram before folding anything. Once folded, it should look like this.
We now return to my favourite block of wood. Drill a 0.3mm. hole close to one of the edges. Place a short length of wire in this hole and then place the W-Iron bracket over it. Now place the lower hole in the lever guard over it as well. There are two different levels to the back of the guard, hence the need to drill the hole close to the edge, in order for it to lie flat whilst this job is performed. Hold these parts at 90 degrees to each other, flux the joint and touch with the soldering iron. Cut the wire back on both sides and file the ends flat to represent the fixing bolt. Now place another short length into the drilled hole and place the top hole in the lever guard over it. Once again, flux and touch with the soldering iron. As before, cut back the wire, but this time on the front only and file to represent the fixing bolt. Leave a short length in place on the rear, say 1.5 to 2mm. which will be inserted into the bracket on the solebar. All this is illustrated in this sequence of photographs. Don't worry about the slightly bent lever guard, its easily sorted.
The next bit can be a little tricky but by constructing the lever guard in this way, it can support itself to an extent, whilst it is soldered in place. The first thing to do is to adjust the W-Iron bracket to the correct angle, such that the lever guard is vertically aligned and parallel to the W-Iron. I hope that's clear but I can't put it any better. I tend to solder the bracket to the W-Iron first and then solder the top of the guard to the solebar bracket. The next sequence of photos show the assembly in place and will hopefully make things clearer.
Before moving on to the brake levers, there is the small matter of the two door springs to fit. These are a simple fold assembly and again, there is a slot in the solebar into which they fit. This is how they should look.
I'm starting with the plain lever on this wagon but it really doesn't make any difference which one you start with. Folding brake levers is a fairly logical process if you think about how the lever moves. They were cranked around the axlebox and again to pass through the lever guard. As long as you do this and ensure that the rest of the lever wouldn't hit anything on the chassis, you will pretty much have it right. Anyway, here's the lever after folding. As you can see, there's a small etch which should be removed from the fret with the lever and then folded behind it. I managed to inadvertantly seperate it, so I had to put it over the brake shaft first and follow it with the lever. Fortunately, it stayed where I put it so soldering it up was releatively straight forward.
Here's the lever in place.
The Morton lever is similarly formed but before forming it we need to return once again to the trusty wooden block. Drill a 0.8mm. hole this time and insert a short length of wire into the hole. Place the lever over it and solder it up. Cut the wire short whilst still in the block and file flat, this time to represent the shaft, upon which it pivots in reality. Leave about 2mm. on the rear face for fixing purposes. You should have something that looks like this.
Now place the clutch, the bit that looks like a comma, on the main brake shaft. I glue the lever in place using 5 minute epoxy, to avoid the soldered joint between the lever and wire coming apart. Here, again, is the lever after gluing in place.
That's it for this session. A bit of variety next time, I feel.
The second best priest
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steamraiser
- Posts: 384
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:49 pm
Re: A wagon tutorial
How do you know what shape to bend the lever?
Gordon A
Gordon A
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