New P4/P87 compatible bogie familily design announcement

[Proto87Stores]

I just wanted to announce my upcoming equalized and sprung bogie designs are now at the pre-production and testing stage.



Here is a picture of the first P87 version that is suitable for upgrading the Walthers' USA Amfleet passenger cars.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=svTDe2u797Y
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvQsvkGpEs0

And two Youtube video clips showing a whole P:87 train running forwards and backwards at final extreme speed testing of scale 120 mph over typical not very even model track.

A version for upgrading Bachmann MK1's bogies is entering test shortly. And will be suitable for 00/EM/P4.

The construction is much improved over traditional etched bogies, in that it requires almost no skills, soldering, gluing or screws. Very low running friction, even for heavily weighted coaches and power cars, is provided by built in ball bearings.

A separate floating precision gearbox has also been made that can added to most versions to provide motor bogies for many US and UK DMUs and EMUs.

I can be contacted via email at contact at proto87.com if anyone has further interest.

Andy Reichert

[Horsetan]

Nice.....

[Re6/6]

Impressive when propelling at that speed.

I'll be looking forward to the Mk 1 bogie version.

[billbedford]

Both URLs point to the same page.....

[John Donnelly]

Both URLs point to the same page.....

I get a different video for each...

John

[John McAleely]

Both URLs point to the same page.....

I get a different video for each...

John

Whoops. my mistake, now fixed.

[Penrhos1920]

Impressed. I'd like to see it propelled through a facing crossover.

[Proto87Stores]

Not a facing crossover, but a long shot of the state of the track the train is running on. (The test track is presently dual use HO and P:87, so I've left the turnouts off until I've converted more of my equipment.)



I have performed single bump tests using a handy tip of a small swiss fixed as above file. Some of my early amateur (one handed) you tube clips are as below.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhpefPTcVg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CypqNqAgqxQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-yGMBqSOdk

Andy

[Proto87Stores]

More progress on the bogie family to report:

Here are some pictures of the Bachmann MK1 upgrade version.



First the UK 4mm version chassis has a wider top, with longer equalizing beams to match the MK1 wheelbase and lower axle bearing mountings positions. The wheels will be added later, using 2mm axles with cut flush ends, instead of pin points. The springs and spring holders are also left off for now.



Next the new chassis is shown in context and size next to the Bachmann bogies



Finally for this picture session, the wheel-less upgrade chassis is shown as it would be placed inside the not needed to be modified Bachmann frame. The Bachmann bogie would then be re-attached to the body using a little longer mounting screw, but with the screw not inserted as far, (and loctite-ed at that level) so that the inside chassis can move up and down and tilt in all directions on it's springs, but not rotate. The original Bachmann frame will still do the rotation for curves as it did originally, but now the wheels will be fully equalized and the bolster sprung inside it.

The pinpoint bearings have been abandoned and wheels of any standard (00-EM-P4) can be used by using the wheels of choice on flush axles of the correct length.

Andy

[John McAleely]

by Proto87Stores » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:53 pm

Sorry that took over a week for me to notice and approve. Please feel free to email me after a few hours, if your posts don't get posted in future

[Prot:87 Stores]

I have been advised off forum that the outside dimension of a pair of flush axle end mounted P4 wheels will still rub lightly on the inside of the Bachmann bogie frame. This is confirmed in my latest testing. So my my "drop-in" installation claim is not completely valid. It will actually require a little work with a flat file to take maybe 0.5 mm off the inside of (the outside) of the bogie wheel cut and side frame backs outs to make sure the wheels do not rub.

Thanks for the prior advice. Any other input gratefully received.

Andy

[Proto87Stores]

Had a little time to fit some P4 wheels to the bogie chassis this week. Spent a little while testing the fit. Here are the separate parts before placing the bogie chassis in the Bachmann bogie frame.



And this is a side view, which definitely has a nice, from the side, "P4" appearance. (But using 16.5 mm gauge). The new bogie internal chassis looks to be complete hidden.

I did fit the full springing with two new bogies and using my US loco with no compatible couplings, loose pushed one single coach around the rough track successfully. But that was not enough testing of all the variables to justify a recommended spring setting or video yet. I measured the weight of the complete coach at only 5 oz. Which is somewhat lighter than I'm used to running.

More progress later, as time permits.

Andy

[John McAleely]

A gentle bump, since I appear to have moderated this rather slowly. Thanks for the post Andy.

[Horsetan]

Wonder if Andy managed to get any further with this....

[Proto87Stores]

Sorry, but I've been kept busy working on a few other things.





Andy

[Proto87Stores]

Wonder if Andy managed to get any further with this....

I'm expecting to have a wider range of parts for testing arriving next week. (~27 Aug). So hopefully I can report some more progress after then.

I did however just notice the recent comments on the "Track Gauge Widening" thread, regarding the ease with which P4 wagons may be "blown off the track".

FWIW, I don't seem to have that or the other related imagined problems (too heavy to pull, etc.), using this type of suspension design. Here are a couple of video clips that show how P:87 wheels "stick to the rails", even when the car is excessively pushed and prodded by clumsy human hands.

http://www.proto87.com/media/amfleet%20body%20wobble%20left.MOV

http://www.proto87.com/media/amfleet%20body%20wobble%20right.MOV

This is the same car that a single RTR loco will pull 9 of, at a scale 125 mph.

Andy

[Horsetan]

Wonder if Andy managed to get any further with this....

I'm expecting to have a wider range of parts for testing arriving next week. (~27 Aug). So hopefully I can report some more progress after then....

Noticed that one of the bogies you already have in your Stores is similar to the design which was fitted to SNCF 141R tenders:



Would you consider designing the odd kit to cater for European bogies?

[Proto87Stores]

They may be covered may be in the parts that arrived here yesterday. The sideframes look like Vulcans with three springs. Let me know the wheelbase and wheel dia. Measured model mm will do if you don't have prototype values.

Andy

[kelly]

What size range will the bogies be available in? (ie 7ft, 8ft etc).

[Proto87Stores]

The parts that just came in for testing include:

4 mm 8 ft 6
4 mm 9 ft
4 mm 4 ft 6 (Approx) Both max traction and equal wheel, for London Trams
4 mm 6 ft for 1939 and 1959/60 LT tube stock.

3.5 mm 5 ft 3
3.5 mm 6 ft
3.5 mm 7 ft
3.5 mm 8ft 6

Other wheel bases can be easily added later.

All are equalized, sprung bolster, underfloor power or trailing trucks, with powered versions powered by a central floor or underfloor motor. (reduction centre spur gearbox optional). Standard powered configuration would be A1-1A dual power trucks with 50% weight carried on the A axles and optional tight (tram) minimum radius operation. ( U/J motor shaft coupling under truck pivots). Bo-2 or Bo-Bo configuration would involve adding extra gearboxes and normal minimum radius operation.

Ease of construction testing for this stage of design has been successful so far, with all parts merely snapping together. No soldering or screws required. I should be able to post some pictures in the next day or so. The earlier first non-powered prototype units as shown in the videos have been running intermittently completely trouble and derailment free, since their initial intensive testing, for around the past two years.

My personal intended 4 mm applications include LNER Quint Arts (non powered), BR 305 EMU's, LNER/BR original Shenfield EMU's, and LT 1959 Central Line stock. So I'm going to be a user too.

Hope this helps

Andy

[Horsetan]

They may be covered may be in the parts that arrived here yesterday. The sideframes look like Vulcans with three springs. Let me know the wheelbase and wheel dia. Measured model mm will do if you don't have prototype values.

Prototype bogie wheelbase is 1829mm or 6ft (21mm in 1:87), and wheel diameter is 1067mm (12.2mm disc in 1:87).

The 141Rs were all built in North America so the Vulcan-type tender bogies wouldn't be a surprise....

[kelly]

The parts that just came in for testing include:

4 mm 8 ft 6
4 mm 9 ft
4 mm 4 ft 6 (Approx) Both max traction and equal wheel, for London Trams
4 mm 6 ft for 1939 and 1959/60 LT tube stock.


Other wheel bases can be easily added later.

All are equalized, sprung bolster, underfloor power or trailing trucks, with powered versions powered by a central floor or underfloor motor. (reduction centre spur gearbox optional). Standard powered configuration would be A1-1A dual power trucks with 50% weight carried on the A axles and optional tight (tram) minimum radius operation. ( U/J motor shaft coupling under truck pivots). Bo-2 or Bo-Bo configuration would involve adding extra gearboxes and normal minimum radius operation.

Andy

The 8ft6" will be wide ranging in their usefulness of course. 8ft9" (SR/BR(S) power bogies for EMU stock) would be of use also personally and I'm sure for a number of other members, rather than using 8ft6" on all bogies. 8ft bogies would be of use for newer/modern EMU/DMU stock iirc (the 466/465/365 units work out about 8ft iirc).

The LT stock bogies will be of use too potentially.

Any posibility of co-co arrangement?

[Proto87Stores]

Here are some quick pictures of two different wheelbase length versions of the truck chassis, with just the underfloor height sprung bolster attached. The spring cups and springs have not been added yet., not has the truck mounting pivot screw. These are the HO 8ft -6 and HO 7ft. Most of the parts are common to all versions.





The bolster holds the springs low enough so the entire truck fits underfloor on almost all types of car except possibly the LT Tube cars, even with the gearbox fitted ( more pictures later). The only difference for a power version is the added gearbox with the drive shaft extending into the centre pivot point of the bolster, and fitted with a U-J.

[Horsetan]

Looking at your list, it might be that the 1:87 6ft bogie is suitable, though not sure if it would be hidden by the open nature of the 141R tender bogie frame.

[Proto87Stores]

The equalizing beams and support body fit behind the wheels, so are not typically noticeable through the cosmetic outer side frames. Also I have a shorter version of the upper bolster that is for the NG versions, but which can be fitted to the standard gauge bodies as an alternate. So not much would be visible above the side frames either. Again, more photos later should show the practical effect.

The already available standard Vulcan equalized freight truck comes out at about a 5 ft 3 wheelbase. I don't know if that would look too short?

To answer the other question in one post.

I am planning to make 3 axle versions of this same engineering functional design. But I haven't started that work yet. Mid 2017 is the likely earliest design completion and availability.

Andy