Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

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Ray Byde

Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Ray Byde » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:45 pm

Does anybody have any experience of converting this loco? I personall work in EM gauge, any help / advice would be greatly aprreciated

Ray Byde

Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Ray Byde » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:53 pm

Just a thank-you to a friend and well respected professional modeller who phoned me with some helpful advice and encouragement regarding my enquiry.
Regrettably he did not wish to post anything on the forum about conversion of this model. I feel this is a pity as many other modellers have probably also bought this model and are wondering how to go about converting to either EM or P4, and his advice would be very useful.

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Flymo748
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Flymo748 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:56 pm

Ray Byde wrote:Just a thank-you to a friend and well respected professional modeller who phoned me with some helpful advice and encouragement regarding my enquiry.
Regrettably he did not wish to post anything on the forum about conversion of this model. I feel this is a pity as many other modellers have probably also bought this model and are wondering how to go about converting to either EM or P4, and his advice would be very useful.


Hi Ray,

Thanks for letting us know that it can be done, even if not exactly how. Perhaps you could post a quick summary here in the Guest Book? Or even on the EMGS Q&A board for their members, as you are building it in EM.

All the very best with the conversion.
Cheers
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Philip Hall
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Philip Hall » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:04 pm

The friend Ray refers to was me (and thank you for the compliment, Ray) and I was pleased to be able to point him in possibly the right direction for EM. However, I didn’t feel it would be useful to put anything on the Forum for several reasons, not least because it wouldn’t be appropriate for P4; at least EM ought to be easier, even possible. In no particular order...

1. No one makes the correct wheels. I think there is a wheel in the AG range that comes close, but it’s not as accurate as the appearance of the Heljan wheels. AG haven’t done a conversion set yet. Putting new tyres on the Heljan wheels is
possible, but not for the faint hearted, including me.
2. I haven’t done one yet, and only had the most cursory of inspections, although at some stage in the distant future two might be coming my way. See below why I might start getting worried in a year or two.
3. Axles appear to be 2mm, I am told, and (by someone who has had a detailed look) clearances are non-existent around the crossheads and slidebars. EM might be possible, thus possibly easier, but P4 could be real fun. If you like that sort of thing, which I’m not sure I do.

I gather that Kernow might also be doing one which could be from DJ Models, which strikes me as a daft duplication, but also is likely to be in the ‘I don’t want to even try and convert’ category, blessed as it might well be with a spilt frame chassis and plastic centres to the axles. Probably, as with their O2, an expensive way to buy a locomotive body. There are sound commercial reasons for producing a chassis in this way, but unfortunately it doesn’t help us amiable band of nutters who model to wider gauges.

Hope this helps and not deters any of you contemplating such a conversion. If you’ve already done one, please let us know and put my mind at rest.

Philip

billbedford
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby billbedford » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:59 am

Philip Hall wrote:3. Axles appear to be 2mm, I am told, and (by someone who has had a detailed look) clearances are non-existent around the crossheads and slidebars. EM might be possible, thus possibly easier, but P4 could be real fun. If you like that sort of thing, which I’m not sure I do.


The width of wheels sets over wheel face is about the same in P4 and EM id scale width types are used. i.e. about 22mm.
Bill Bedford
Mousa Models
http://www.mousa.biz

Philip Hall
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:54 pm

Point taken Bill, and with the width over tyre faces I would agree, but sometimes the thickness of bosses can give trouble, and appeared to be so in this case. When (eventually) I measure one I will know for sure.

Philip

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Horsetan
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Horsetan » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:27 am

There is always the CSP Models kit which hopefully might be available in 2018....
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:57 am

Philip Hall wrote:However, I didn’t feel it would be useful to put anything on the Forum for several reasons, not least because it wouldn’t be appropriate for P4; at least EM ought to be easier, even possible.


I don't see why details of converting a loco from OO to EM should not be posted on here. :) We have members who choose to work in EM rather than P4 and for that matter some who work in other scales/gauges. They are members because they find that what the Scalefour Society has to offer meets their needs and long may that continue.

In any case the details of how to do the job will be very similar for EM and P4 conversions although there may be issues with clearances in P4 that do not apply to EM. Someone with the experience that Philip has would be able to point out any additional problems that those working in P4 might have to solve so it would still be valuable to describe.

Philip Hall wrote:I gather that Kernow might also be doing one which could be from DJ Models, which strikes me as a daft duplication


This seems to be an increasing problem both with steam and diesel outline models and sometimes new offerings are no better in terms of accurate models that what is already available. :(

Terry Bendall

Philip Hall
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Philip Hall » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:56 pm

I understand Terry, so might do so. My principle point was that I haven’t done one yet so am not really qualified to comment. Once one is under my belt I can do so. But don’t hold your breath, there are a few other things to once the new workshop is up and running!

Philip

88D

Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby 88D » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:06 pm

I looked at this for EM as well. I decided life was too short and modified a K’s instead. If I remember correctly, the gearing was a pain, the clearances weren’t great, plu s loads of others. Also, I had been told by others that the DJ mechanism doesn’t have a great reputation, but that is hearsay on my part.

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Horsetan
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Re: Helan 1361 class saddleank to EM gauge

Postby Horsetan » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:35 pm

88D wrote:I ....the DJ mechanism doesn’t have a great reputation, but that is hearsay on my part.


The chassis block is internally geared like a diesel bogie, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if that works well in addition to coupling rods.
That would be an ecumenical matter.


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