"Show within a show" - in practice

[Paul Willis]

Many of you will have seen and heard about the Committee's initiative of a Show Within A Show (or SWAS as I will type it to avoid wearing my keyboard out. The idea is to support the many Area Groups and solo modellers around the country that display their P4 layouts, or represent the Society in other ways.

The Society has acquired five sets of stand materials that will be held by various Area Group spread around the country. Thanks to the hard work of Steve Carter in organising it, the one for the South West turned up with me a couple of days ago. I will be demonstrating P4 Modelling at the Yate Show this Saturday. It's not so much a SWAS as a bloke with a soldering iron, yet...

This is what turned up by courier (and was taken in by one of my lovely neighbours)

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Inside the box was a stout holdall with handles. I can imagine that if the SWAS kit is not going to be posted around, the outer box can be disposed of.

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And neatly packed inside was all the kit that you need

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Including comprehensive instructions

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First up was the stand. It's not a workbench, as it is supported by some fairly slender legs. The wraparound is cloth (with our excellent new enhanced logo designed by David Brandreth for the Society's revamped stands - you may have seen it at Scaleforum, Warley or RailWells last year), and is attached easily using velcro.

The stand is perfect for showing off models, or leaflets about the Society.

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Next up, and quickly erected, was one of the pop-up banners. These are perfect for placing alongside a layout when there may not be the space or need for a separate stand.

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Steve had included some leaflets and holders for me

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And the whole thing together. It looks really professional, and I hope that it gives members of the Society around the country a real buzz to see it at their local show.

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Many thanks to the Committee for the initiative to promote P4 modelling and our Society in a new way.

Best wishes,
Paul

[David B]

Now all you need is a Society bum rest to complete the outfit.

[John Bateson]

That kit looks absolutely amazing. Impressed I am.
John

[Jeremy Good]

Paul,

That looks very professional. Well done to Steve and David for getting the package together.

It’ll be interesting to hear what feedback you get from the Yate (Sudbury Vale MRC) show next weekend.

Have a good day out!

Jeremy

[Tim V]

I should be going to Yate - I'll report back!

[kelly]

Looks great. Though I am not a fan of standing displays as they preclude those with diabilities or health issues potentially.

[Paul Willis]

Looks great. Though I am not a fan of standing displays as they preclude those with disabilities or health issues potentially.

Hi Kelly,

I completely understand your perspective, and it is unfortunate that it is there is no optimum solution for all visitors to a show. The style of stand is certainly not a deliberate decision to disenfranchise anyone.

The challenge with seated/table level arrangements is that typically only a couple of people at a time can be engaged. It doesn't have the free-flowing ability of a more flexible arrangement.

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The chairs also act as a barrier to visitors just wandering up out of interest, having a look and asking a question, then maybe moving on. Empty chairs can create a wall, that standing visitors have to talk over and down from.

Another concern is that once people "settle" in the chairs, it becomes rather difficult to shift them! We've often seen comments made that people have been unable to get to see demonstrators because someone has sat down and stayed chatting away for the duration... The whole issue of access is something that we are aware of, and the area of demonstrations is receiving careful consideration for Scaleforum 2023.

Best wishes,
Paul

[kelly]

Looks great. Though I am not a fan of standing displays as they preclude those with disabilities or health issues potentially.

Hi Kelly,

I completely understand your perspective, and it is unfortunate that it is there is no optimum solution for all visitors to a show. The style of stand is certainly not a deliberate decision to disenfranchise anyone.


The chairs also act as a barrier to visitors just wandering up out of interest, having a look and asking a question, then maybe moving on. Empty chairs can create a wall, that standing visitors have to talk over and down from.

Another concern is that once people "settle" in the chairs, it becomes rather difficult to shift them! We've often seen comments made that people have been unable to get to see demonstrators because someone has sat down and stayed chatting away for the duration... The whole issue of access is something that we are aware of, and the area of demonstrations is receiving careful consideration for Scaleforum 2023.

Best wishes,
Paul

I appreciate there are no perfect solutions for this. Perhaps a half height stand to go next to it, without chairs in front might work alongside the standing, so it can have items on display and provide a small area to facilitate the, admittedly small number, of disabled people who might visit the stand. The other aspect of course is the hobby is not a young hobby in many respects and so thought of this should be kept in mind for demonstration areas etc.

Kelly

[Jol Wilkinson]

I agree with Paul entirely.

If you are standing, a visitor can make eye contact readily and begin a conversation. That is less easy if you are sitting behind a table. I have also found that some society representatives use a table as a modelling opportunity and so visitors may be reluctant to disturb them. It can also give the impression that you have better things to do than talk to prospective members.

Demonstrators however need the use of tables with chairs which "students" accept and generally take in their stride.

Jol

[David B]

I have been banging on about using higher stands without chairs for years. We used higher stands regularly with the Missenden demonstrations and I did so when demonstrating at Scaleforum. Without the chairs, more people could get closer to see and hear and the turnover was continuous with no 'bed blockers'. During that time, I had several people in wheelchairs and on mobility scooters with no problem whatsoever. Indeed, standing people made way so that those with mobility problems could get to the front and on more than one occasion I took a stool around the front for someone.

Most of us behind a stand are well aware of the difficulties some people have and will do our best to be accommodating. We don't need to be continually reminded.

[Steve Carter]

The kit has been put together to assist Area Groups when promoting the Society at local events, exhibitions etc. The idea is to provide Area Groups with a display to support and supplement the display/demonstration etc. that they may be providing so it's up to the Group to decide what works for them and how to do it.

As David B has said, working in front of a display counter can be very encouraging and helpful for all visitors.
We setup the Society Stand at Warley last year in a "walk-in" configuration and welcomed visitors to visit us in an open space rather than have a barrier between us.

We we're able to engage with all visitors, including those with disabilities, talk with them and show them things in a more friendly environment. It worked very well and we will be doing it again where we can.

[steamraiser]

In my experience a table height demonstration is not limited to just the two or three people sat in front of you.
I have seen line of standing people form behind those sat down at demonstration tables.
They may wander away but if really interested will return when they spot a spare seat.
Also a table height stand will enable the demonstrators to sit down making the day less tiring.

Gordon A

[Noel]

As David B has said, working in front of a display counter can be very encouraging and helpful for all visitors.

Also a table height stand will enable the demonstrators to sit down making the day less tiring.

Gordon has raised a potential problem I was also thinking about. Area groups are likely to have a membership with their average age well above the average for the population as a whole, which may make standing for long periods difficult or impossible for them. This means a larger number of people being needed to enable regular breaks for all involved, and not all area groups may have enough members available or willing to participate to achieve that. For short conversations with people passing who show an interest standing is fine, but longer conversations are probably more comfortable with both parties seated. One standing, one seated ends to inhibit more than a brief conversation as it soon becomes uncomfortable, for both psychological and physiological reasons. Perhaps there should be a couple of chairs available, but in a position where they are under the control of the people on the stand, perhaps behind the stand?

[David B]

All you need is a folding bar stool as a bum rest. A higher stand is not a problem and certainly does not imply you have to stand. Indeed, being in front of a display usually means you tend to spend more time on your feet!

As for the customers, they are wandering around all day and there are usually chairs around either in the show or refreshment area for them to rest when they feel the need. I get the impression people are looking for problems that do not exist.

[Noel]

All you need is a folding bar stool as a bum rest. A higher stand is not a problem and certainly does not imply you have to stand. Indeed, being in front of a display usually means you tend to spend more time on your feet!

But you shouldn't be in front of a display, as you are blocking the view of anyone trying to look at it...

As for the customers, they are wandering around all day and there are usually chairs around either in the show or refreshment area for them to rest when they feel the need.

How is this relevant? I specifically pointed out that any chairs need to be under the control of people manning the stand because this problem has been highlighted in previous posts. It is possible to have quite a long conversation whilst standing, but prolonged conversations are more comfortable when sitting, and there will be some who simply cannot stand in one place that long, while a wheelchair user would probably prefer talking to someone sitting at their level.

All you need is a folding bar stool as a bum rest.

I find them hideously uncomfortable; I doubt I am alone. I'd rather stand, and can still do so for prolonged periods [with some breaks] without too much of a problem, but it now takes me rather longer to recover from that sort of day than it used to, so I prefer to avoid the necessity.

I get the impression people are looking for problems that do not exist.

Just because these potential problems don't apply to you [or the great majority of us] does not mean they do not exist.

[Will L]

Now all you need is a Society bum rest to complete the outfit.

As somebody who has spend time behind the society stand, that’s exactly the need that crossed my mind. However the old society stand does come with a couple of folding high stools which are just the job for those manning the stall all day. I'm not clear how these can fit in with the regionally distributed mini stands. At least let’s not through them away

[David B]

But you shouldn't be in front of a display, as you are blocking the view of anyone trying to look at it...

Nonsense. You are in a better position to engage with people instead of having a barrier between you and them. It is different for a demonstration.

I will refrain from commenting on the rest of your post.

[Paul Willis]

As David B has said, working in front of a display counter can be very encouraging and helpful for all visitors.
We setup the Society Stand at Warley last year in a "walk-in" configuration and welcomed visitors to visit us in an open space rather than have a barrier between us.

We were able to engage with all visitors, including those with disabilities, talk with them and show them things in a more friendly environment. It worked very well and we will be doing it again where we can.

For those who may not have had chance to visit us at Warley:

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Plenty of space for conversations, plenty of space for showing examples of finescale modelling. Not all space that we are allocated by show organisers allows such an open layout, but both those on the stand and visitors to it enjoyed the interaction.

There are alternative approaches to having a stand at shows:

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We've recently confirmed that the Scalefour Society will be at Warley 2023, hopefully with having as much fun as in 2022. It's not a show that is everyone's cup of tea, but why not come along and give the finescale elements a try. You'll find that there are more of them than you may imagine.

Best wishes,
Paul

Best wishes,
Paul

[Paul Willis]

As David B has said, working in front of a display counter can be very encouraging and helpful for all visitors.

Also a table height stand will enable the demonstrators to sit down making the day less tiring.

Gordon has raised a potential problem I was also thinking about. Area groups are likely to have a membership with their average age well above the average for the population as a whole, which may make standing for long periods difficult or impossible for them. This means a larger number of people being needed to enable regular breaks for all involved, and not all area groups may have enough members available or willing to participate to achieve that. For short conversations with people passing who show an interest standing is fine, but longer conversations are probably more comfortable with both parties seated. One standing, one seated ends to inhibit more than a brief conversation as it soon becomes uncomfortable, for both psychological and physiological reasons. Perhaps there should be a couple of chairs available, but in a position where they are under the control of the people on the stand, perhaps behind the stand?

Noel,

There's no need to worry! Steve Carter, as Membership Secretary, is now enforcing a policy that all persons on the Society Stand have to be capable of sub-30 minute 5k times.

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Thanks to Steve and Rita for hosting me and my better half at his local 10k race last year. In case some of you think that you recognise the faster one out of the two, she was selling tickets on the desks at Scaleforum 2022

Best,
Paul

[Paul Townsend]

Since Anne has the answer, what is the question?

Does Paul have relief help at Yate?

[Albert Hall]

I'm with Noel on this one. I do tend to stand around chatting with people but I pay the price for a few days afterwards with hip and back issues. Not a problem if I can keep moving. I agree that this is not something which affects everyone but I wouldn't wish the pain and discomfort I have suffered over 30 years when standing for long periods on anyone. That chair to relieve the pressure is most welcome. Sitting down for a face to face conversation also makes it more likely that the visitor will stay engaged for longer rather than slowly edging or turning away, or letting their eye contact slip due to other distractions .

Roy

[Steve Carter]

If you go back to the earlier posts you will see that the intention of these kits is to try and provide some support to Area Groups when they are promoting finescale modelling and the Society at local events.

How they organise that is, of course, up to them

The display counter (it clearly states that it is for display purposes only and is not to be used for demos or as a work bench) and the pull-up banner are available for Area Groups to use if they want, perhaps along side a demo table or a layout? 

The point is that they decide what to use if they want

If they want to use chairs and/or stools then that's up to them

[nigelcliffe]

If you go back to the earlier posts you will see that the intention of these kits is to try and provide some support to Area Groups when they are promoting finescale modelling and the Society at local events.

How they organise that is, of course, up to them

The display counter (it clearly states that it is for display purposes only and is not to be used for demos or as a work bench) and the pull-up banner are available for Area Groups to use if they want, perhaps along side a demo table or a layout? 

The point is that they decide what to use if they want

If they want to use chairs and/or stools then that's up to them

Version 2 of the stand kit will include a pressure-sensitive carpet mat. And anyone sitting, slouching, or otherwise not standing in accordance with rule 23.4.1.18.83.revH will receive an automatic reminder to stand correctly through the high-voltage coil in the mat.




( added for the humour impaired ).

- Nigel

[Noel]

The display counter (it clearly states that it is for display purposes only and is not to be used for demos or as a work bench)

How safe is it to lean on? [See Paul Willis' post yesterday .]

[martin goodall]

Having read all the guff above, my reaction on this topic is - "JFDI!"

I'm sorry that I shan't be at the Yate show on Saturday to see how the new 'mini-stand' works, as I shall be operating an old friend's layout at another model railway exhibition a hundred miles away. (I haven't yet mastered the skill of being in two places at once!)