"Show within a show" - in practice

[steamraiser]

A number of members from the Bristol area group will be attending so I am sure Paul will have some relief.

[Paul Willis]

The display counter (it clearly states that it is for display purposes only and is not to be used for demos or as a work bench)

How safe is it to lean on? [See Paul Willis' post yesterday .]

What exactly do you mean by lean, Noel?

Is it measured in Nm, or on the scale from "Coldstream Guard on parade in 30C heat" to "drunk City trader at desk after lunch"?

I'm afraid that for a P4 modeller I find a startling lack of precision in your question

best,
Paul

[steve howe]

Interesting views...

In my former life I was an Exhibition Designer for over 35 years which included many trade stands. Looking at the setup for Warley suggests a more welcoming layout than one where the visitor is confronted by a counter top with blokes standing behind it. A stand which has no barriers (visual, psychological or physical) will always tempt punters in to have a look around, especially, as with the new S4 stand, there are plenty of large eye-catching graphics.
The tall counter unit is still needed - in my view - as a convenient means of displaying models, demonstrating products or writing notes etc. after all, who doesn't like leaning on a bar discussing one's favourite topic? but, as David B says, its much more approachable to have someone (beaming benignly) in front as the initial contact. In terms of comfort, the simplest solution for the staff are tall folding stools (with backrests and foot bars) with a couple of spares which can be brought out for the use of visitors who might need to take the weight off. But such a counter unit can be set to one side allowing browsing without blocking access. Don't forget too that most modern reception counters feature a lower level section which is wheelchair accessible. Look at the way many banks (such as there are left) or Building Societies have laid out their foyers with small island units where a member of staff can stand (or perch) as a 'meet and greet' before directing visitors to the appropriate display or Officer for further information.

Just my view!

Steve

[Noel]

What exactly do you mean by lean, Noel?

Is it measured in Nm, or on the scale from "Coldstream Guard on parade in 30C heat" to "drunk City trader at desk after lunch"?

I'm afraid that for a P4 modeller I find a startling lack of precision in your question

I'm sure you can work it out from the photos you posted, Paul, to which I referred. I know nothing about City traders; from my own experience I would suggest a City insurance broker or underwriter at about 6:30 pm...

[Andrew Ullyott]

I have suggested, many times, that the EMGS should have a range of exhibitor's shower caps, with the letters or other suitable message displayed thereon so as to promote the society without having to look up from what they're doing.
Maybe I should patent this for other societies too...
Perhaps also a society approved egg timer to keep things moving along.

Nice to see Ally Pally has a safety barrier to contain the demonstrators. They can be a wild bunch when riled.

I think the new stand and pop up banner looks very good. If the front is fabric, can it be used as a table cloth type arrangement if a conventional table is used?

[Winander]

Perhaps also a society approved egg timer to keep things moving along.

Clearly not required for the EMGS as there doesn't appear to be anything to move.

[David B]

I have suggested, many times, that the EMGS should have a range of exhibitor's shower caps, with the letters or other suitable message displayed thereon so as to promote the society without having to look up from what they're doing.

Seeing we still have no 'like' option:

[Winander]

Patience grasshopper

[martin goodall]

I have suggested, many times, that the EMGS should have a range of exhibitor's shower caps, with the letters or other suitable message displayed thereon so as to promote the society without having to look up from what they're doing.

That certainly rings a bell from what I have seen at several model railway shows (not confined to the EMGS). It is very effective in deterring visitors from asking the 'demonstrator' distracting questions which prevent him from getting on with some serious model-making.

Whenever I am a demonstrator at shows I never expect to get any model-making done. That is not what we're there for. In my experience, the whole show is spent in talking to visitors and showing the materials, tools and methods used to construct the part-made models on display on that particular demonstration table.

The Society's demonstration stand performs a somewhat different role in explaining what the Society does, and showing the services offered to members and the other benefits of joining the Society.

[Paul Willis]

Whenever I am a demonstrator at shows I never expect to get any model-making done. That is not what we're there for. In my experience, the whole show is spent in talking to visitors and showing the materials, tools and methods used to construct the part-made models on display on that particular demonstration table.

The Society's demonstration stand performs a somewhat different role in explaining what the Society does, and showing the services offered to members and the other benefits of joining the Society.

That's exactly what my approach will be to demonstrating at Yate tomorrow will be. I've already packed a number of part-built models that I know I will have no chance of working on. And indeed, it will be impossible to work on, as I'll have left the necessary bits/tools at home

You're bang-on about the role of the Society stand as well, and it's exactly what people like Steve, Danny and Mike love to do.

Best,
Paul

[Tim V]

Veni, vidi, vici!

I went, I saw, I came away!

[kelly]

Interesting views...

In terms of comfort, the simplest solution for the staff are tall folding stools (with backrests and foot bars) with a couple of spares which can be brought out for the use of visitors who might need to take the weight off. But such a counter unit can be set to one side allowing browsing without blocking access. Don't forget too that most modern reception counters feature a lower level section which is wheelchair accessible. Look at the way many banks (such as there are left) or Building Societies have laid out their foyers with small island units where a member of staff can stand (or perch) as a 'meet and greet' before directing visitors to the appropriate display or Officer for further information.

Just my view!

Steve

This was pretty much what I was thinking of with my earlier reply to Paul. Doesn't have to be a big area and the chairs don't need to be in front. Just providing the capability is enough really. Being flexible in the approach to accomodate as many needs as practical is imo the best approach.

The table with chairs in front has its flaws, but can work well and with the DEMU stand as Paul posted earlier, when enough members are available to help there is usually one person floating in the front throughout the day (Though it can vary with breaks etc).

[Winander]

I'll report back!

[Tim V]

I'll report back!

Veni, vidi, vici!

I went, I saw, I came away!

Or in other words, I saw it, it looked good, I came away!

[Paul Willis]

The display counter (it clearly states that it is for display purposes only and is not to be used for demos or as a work bench)

How safe is it to lean on? [See Paul Willis' post yesterday .]

Thanks to Bernie Baker, we were able to give a comprehensive demonstration of the lean-capacity of the new pop-up stands at the Yate show yesterday

IMG_7031.JPG

This was keenly observed by members of the BS4 Area Group, who dropped by to socialise, purchase, and admire the variety of layouts. It was also good to hear that the homemade cakes were particularly good in the catering room. I very much enjoyed chatting with Mark Davy about all sorts of matters, and many, many thanks for Bernie for minding the stand whilst I grabbed some lunch.

This was how the stand greeted visitors, at a place just inside the main doors. It clearly was impressive enough for us already to be invited back next year.

IMG_7027.JPG

IMG_7029.JPG

I hope that your weekends have been as enjoyable.
Best,
Paul

[steamraiser]

Well done Paul.
I liked the combination of the table and the stand.
The combination stand was seen by a lot of people as the two halls and the café were packed all morning.

Gordon A

[Andrew Ullyott]

Thanks to Bernie Baker, we were able to give a comprehensive demonstration of the lean-capacity of the new pop-up stands at the Yate show yesterday

I’m sure I’ve seen you two in a catalogue somewhere. Was it Kay’s or Littlewoods circa 1986?

[Steve Carter]

Well done Paul.
I liked the combination of the table and the stand.
The combination stand was seen by a lot of people as the two halls and the café were packed all morning.

Gordon A

I'm so pleased to see the Committee's vision of trying to give Area Groups more support by making some display material available to compliment whatever a Group decide to do at a local event, actually working.

A great display and set-up showing a a good example of what can be achieved. Well done Paul.

I will be trying to sort out willing custodians to cover the other areas across the country when I'm back from a well deserved (even if I say so myself) break next week.

[Paul Townsend]

Thanks to Bernie Baker, we were able to give a comprehensive demonstration of the lean-capacity of the new pop-up stands at the Yate show yesterday

IMG_7031.JPG

Unfair test as Bernie was a counterbalance

A one sided heavy leaner test is required !

I did a finger wobble test myself and thought the compromise between light weight and stability seemed good.

I share the praise of others for the appearance of the rig but noted that it was in a dingy corner and would benefit from its own lighting.

I reckon a few bits of ally angle and 0.5M of modern high output LED strip would be just the ticket.
It might add 5 mins to the rig/derig time and a Kg to the weight and might fit in the travel bag provided.

Perfection is very near!

[Highpeak]

I think that setup looks excellent. It will be interesting to accumulate some experiences in the field and see if it proves to be a good tool for attracting new members. It looks very promising.

[Allan Goodwillie]

Just been working my way through this thread and maybe have a few comments that might be helpful and I hope practical. Due to covid and problems on the railways it turned out to be impossible to get the Society stand up to the Perth Show last June.

For some years we have been well supported from down south, Mike has come all the way from the south of England each year with the S4 Society Stand. About 8 years ago Stan Moug (who runs the show) and I had a conversation and the upshot was an invitation to get more S4 content for the show as Stan has been very supportive of such things. Up to last year the layouts were simply mixed in to the show, but last year we decided that it would be worth trying a proper S4 Forum within the show, including demonstrators etc., which was very successful and I think can be sustained throughout the next few years, providing we keep adding to our numbers.

Unfortunately, due to circumstances Neither Mike Ainsworth nor the stand could be brought up to the show, consequently I had the job of making our own stand. The members of the committee were excellent in their support in sending all the necessary stationary etc. I made a stand with two tables. One with a computer showing some of our S4 layouts, both members home layouts under construction from the Starters Group and photographs of East and West Group layouts. This animation of images attracted many to the stand and resulted in good conversation. The second table had a section of a new layout I was building, with examples of many things worth discussing.

The only problem I had with the short notice of unavailability, was that I had no material to cover the tables that would tie in with the S4Soc banners - the East and West Group had invested in - some really lovely ones which helped to make the whole area more impressive. Stan came to our help at the last minute and provided us with a couple of correctly coloured table top covers which just finished everything off perfectly.

As it turned out we did not need any lighting as the area was well lit - It was June and the internal lighting and natural daylight worked OK.

We had chairs , but they were not used much as we engaged with the public at the entrance to the S4 enclave and were able to help direct them to the various layouts and demonstrators, and also give them information about the various groups up here as well as gaining a few new members along the way.

Looking at what has been produced - it would be great to have one of the kits up here - as the clubs and individuals from the Starters Group are going to more shows than ever. I agree about the lighting which would come more into its own in the winter months and a couple of table cloths with the Society logo printed on them would make expansion easier and not too cumbersome and still be seen as part of the total package. It would also be an idea to supply some suitable logos of the Society to be stuck on to people's layouts to show they are members of the Society - that is one thing about the EM gauge boys they are very good at letting you know and we should be the same.

I am pleased that Gavin and I have had a chat about what he wants to do with the S4 News and how he sees covering the shows and we are hoping to try out a few things before the show this year, rather than after the event. While on the subject I would like to thank Tim for all his efforts in recent years and how much I appreciate him accepting articles from up this end of the country, this has had a very positive effect and very encouraging to those building layouts up this end of the country.

I know someone suggested throwing away the carboard box, but I would suggest keeping it as it would add to the protection when stowed away.
It is excellent that all of this has been given some thought and it would not mean as much work for Mike and others bringing equipment from a long distance away.

One comment is please keep sending Mike up here or at least send some representative from the committee as happens at Glasgow. We have made good friends when they are up here and enjoyed many a good meal together, unfortunately this summer someone has made the decision to have the Society AGM on the same weekend as the Perth Show, which from the S4 point of view is now the main show up here. It means that not only is it impossible for any committee member to attend the show and show support for all we are trying to do up here, but it also means that it is unlikely that any of the Scottish membership will be able to attend the AGM, which is equally unfortunate.

Sorry this ended up being longer than I had intended. Anyone intending doing a show within a show - could I suggest that it takes time to build up and much of that is coming to a good understanding of the show organiser and what can be provided and taking people with you as you grow the show, making sure it is as simple as possible, keep an eye on expenses and making sure that everyone attending goes away energised and ready for next year. Add a bit more each year and it will build up naturally - we are looking forward to having the North East Grampian Group Join us with a layout for the first time and we also look forward to getting to know them even better - one of their members Colin Stevenson helped me a great deal on last years S4 stand - and I know they are a really great bunch of guys.

Allan

[Winander]

It would also be an idea to supply some suitable logos of the Society to be stuck on to people's layouts to show they are members of the Society

The Stores stock them, item No 1000 right at the bottom of the page.

[Allan Goodwillie]

Thank you Winander I do appreciate that, although I have a feeling that there will be some who might not realise. So you were right to mention it.

The Stores stock them, item No 1000 right at the bottom of the page.

My experience last year at Perth was that of the S4 layouts that turned up only one had any S4 Society logos attached anywhere. There was no chance to do anything about this at the last minute and having some S4 identification on hand would have been very useful indeed. I know someone will return with - some edict should be put out to those taking part - but exhibitors are normally pressed for time, and surprise may not always be keen for people to know theirs is a S4 layout - reasons for which I will not go into here, (as I do not want to open up a whole new can of worms on this thread) but I have been made aware of the attitude on a number of occasions.

I am merely thinking about the usefulness of the pack to whoever is organising the exhibits at the show, and it is up to them to be able to convince the exhibitors to fit them - especially if you are going for a forum within the show and a sign of unity on each stand would be nice to see. (although I personally would not want to make it compulsory.) Individuals or groups participating could be asked to pay for them, if they want to keep them or in some cases the show organiser may decide that they can have them permanently and cover the cost as part of the show. There will be different views about this, maybe the Society could cover the cost of this under "promotion", I have no fixed view on this. It would be necessary for More logos being bought by the organiser for the following year in time for the next years show/shows assuming that one of these packs would cover the likely shows within the area that might like to have a higher S4 profile alongside a S4 layout - at least there would only be one postage cost.

Allan

[Steve Carter]

Several people have suggested that some Area Groups may wish to use the display counter and pull-up banner alongside a demo table so I'm happy to present the Society branded tablecloth -

20230330_162049.jpg

The Committee agreed to purchase five of these to form part of the Area Group Display Kits

[Tim V]

Very nice, is there a matching tea set?