Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

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Noel
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Noel » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:47 pm

With booking in advance for Zoom, rather than just turning up, it might be interesting to be able to see who has booked for which slot, so that you can book in there yourself [or not, of course...]
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Noel

Phil O
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Phil O » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:48 pm

Many thanks to those who organised and took the time to produce their presentations, I am still working my through them. I think the standards are excellent.

Cheers

Phil.

:thumb

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John Donnelly
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby John Donnelly » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:47 pm

Noel wrote:With booking in advance for Zoom, rather than just turning up, it might be interesting to be able to see who has booked for which slot, so that you can book in there yourself [or not, of course...]


Definitely doable albeit it would have meant someone (i.e. me, this year at least), updating the website as and when bookings came in over the course of the weekend.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:28 am

David Thorpe wrote:but I wonder if next time there might perhaps be fewer slots in the hope that more people will go to the slots that are available?


The virtual event was of course set up because we could not have a real one. On that basis let's hope there won't be a next time for a virtual event since we will be able to get to a real show. :D

John and Danny deserve our thanks for setting the thing up as do those who provided the material.

Terry Bendall

Philip Hall
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Philip Hall » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:03 am

Thanks for doing the hosting, Danny. I enjoyed the two sessions I attended but I sort of expected more people to tune in, as it were. Nonetheless, Terry, Jeremy and I had an interesting discussion about wheels and form tools on the Saturday, and Sunday afternoon, as you said, did seem to ramble on a bit, I guess partly by a request to view my workshop once I'd worked out how to share pictures on the PC rather than the iPad I usually use. I met some new people, which is always good, and heard about their projects too. I will use the facility again if it's there at a future time.

Philip

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John Donnelly
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:25 am

A couple of stats for those who like such things.

As of 10:20 this morning, the videos from the show had a total of 3670 views, 2504 of which are for the layout videos and 1166 for the demonstrations.

John

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Noel
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Noel » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:30 am

Terry Bendall wrote:The virtual event was of course set up because we could not have a real one. On that basis let's hope there won't be a next time for a virtual event since we will be able to get to a real show.


Fair enough, but might there not be people who, for one reason or another, can't get to the real show, but might be interested in such a meeting within the conventional Scaleforum [which could possibly also include actual visitors on the day as well as virtual ones]? The thought also occurs that a brief(ish) real-time tour of Scaleforum streamed online might interest some; I assume it is technically possible, but have no idea about financial or other implications, just curious.
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Noel

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Tim V
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Tim V » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:39 pm

Agree with Noel. Just because we have actual events, some people cannot come because of distance, accessibility, time, infirmity. It is not beyond our ability to set up web cams/screens. If we get those much missed lectures back, we could use the same room as a Zoom workshop.

Can you imagine, the lecture being given by someone on the other side of the world!
Tim V
(Not all railways in Somerset went to Dorset)

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Tim V
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Tim V » Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:28 pm

One thing that has come out of the Pandemic, the old way of doing things (including S4M) does not 'fit' with the new world.
Tim V
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:18 pm

Having put the website together for S4N, I do think, personally, that there is a definite argument for running a virtual show alongside the physical event.

David Thorpe

Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:56 pm

I'm a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to modern electronics and while a "virtual" exhibition is very welcome in the present circumstances, it isn't a patch on the real thing. Those among us who are better acquainted with Zoom and the like may well disagree. However, my anxiety about running a virtual show alongside the physical one would be that numbers attending the latter might well drop off further, something that I'm sure the Society would wish to avoid. Having said that, there have for several years been intermittent discussions about the future of the Scalefour shows and whether they can continue in their present format and the "virtual" element is something that may well bring a new element into these discussions.

DT
Last edited by David Thorpe on Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Terry Bendall » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:42 pm

I thought when I posted my comment this morning that someone would come along and suggest that we could continue with virtual events. :(

Yes we could do a virtual event, and it might be done alongside the physical one and if that were done it would obviously be helpful to those who live a long way from the venue, including those members overseas, or those who for one reason or another are unable to travel. Whether we want to do that, or should do that is debatable. (That will no doubt start the debate. :evil: )

If a virtual show takes visitors away from a physical show then income would reduce so perhaps there would have to be an entrance fee for joining a virtual event just as you buy a ticket for a physical one.

Yes things may need to change in the future and there may be some people who would not feel safe in coming to an exhibition perhaps for ever. That of course will be up to them. As far as I am concerned I cannot wait to get back to a real show. A virtual show, however entert6aining and wide ranging is no substitute for the real thing.

Terry Bendall

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John Donnelly
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby John Donnelly » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:08 pm

In my mind, a virtual event would compliment rather than be a direct replacement for an actual event. I would not, for example, expect anyone who is exhibiting their layout to also produce a video of it for a virtual show.

If, however, there were videos already available then why not have them in the virtual show, the same could be done if we have demos at the live show where the person demonstrating may also have a video available.

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Noel
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Noel » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:12 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Yes we could do a virtual event, and it might be done alongside the physical one and if that were done it would obviously be helpful to those who live a long way from the venue, including those members overseas, or those who for one reason or another are unable to travel. Whether we want to do that, or should do that is debatable.


Terry Bendall wrote:A virtual show, however entert6aining and wide ranging is no substitute for the real thing.


On the latter point we agree, but not everyone has any choice in the matter, as I indicated earlier. Since I have little interest in the real Scaleforum as presently constituted, I have no personal interest in this topic; it just seemed something which should be raised for consideration. The Society, after all, should be looking to include as many of its members as possible, should it not?
Regards
Noel

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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby nberrington » Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:13 pm

I've made it to 3 Scaleforum shows over the last 10 years, and would say that there is no replacing a physical show. Networking, physically seeing layouts and models and chatting to vendors is a great experience. (Any excuse to visit the UK) My wife (who is not really into railways at all) will usually come to at least one day too, and will drag me to see this or that feature on a layout.

Circumstances have forced us to try novel things, but I'm sure we all would rather be there in person.

In spite of the challenge of hosting a virtual event, I think the organizers went all out to try and make it a first rate event. They did a smashing job of it.

For several years now, it has been commonplace for large medical conferences to include "digital posters" (which allow live interaction with the authors), online webinars and the streaming of keynote speakers. It all augments the experience, and I think increases conference revenues. (Granted, organizers can muscle industry to sponsor webinars and streaming, which would not be the case for our vendors.)

Many people are now au fait with Zoom and MS Teams, as this has become a common way to run committees in all sorts of industry. Even once all this madness ends, we will definitely be doing a lot of business virtually.

The nature of model making is that live and in person is so much better on every level, but I do appreciate the opportunity to be part of something from "over here". I do think a virtual meeting on occasion might be good. There is currently a "virtual pipe smoking club" - which shockingly has dozens of people tune in every Saturday to chat about life and the latest favourite carcinogens. The Southwestern Circle recently did some zoom events that I gather were well received.

Perhaps small focus groups can meet virtually? Or an expert could run a Q&A/ Ask me anything session.

I miss not having a club this side, and really enjoy the friends I have made across the pond, so would like to chat to some of you in the future.

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barrowroad
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby barrowroad » Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:56 pm

Thank you to the team and all those who participated in the exhibition which I found thoroughly enjoyable. Hopefully Steve Hall's video ofhis Drighlington and Adwalton layout will shortly return to the show layouts list.

Robin

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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby DougN » Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:37 pm

As one of the few who can not attend a physical event, due to distance,I would like to think that we could have smaller virtual attendances. I do like the idea of Web cam arrangement. I agree to put one a virtual and physical one simultaneously is too much work for the team. However if we could arrange for smaller collections of items to placed on the web site I think it would be great. The showcase is a good point. If we could say have a repository to send photos and descriptions too, Then as time permits the webmaster could assemble them and upload at each event.

I would also think it amusing to have a computer on the Scalefour desk where the over seas members can volunteer and have a chat with those at the physical show! :D
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

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John Donnelly
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby John Donnelly » Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:44 am

Just to let everyone know, the Drighlington video has been reinstated.

John

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BRUNEL
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby BRUNEL » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:17 am

THANK YOU!

I felt that a word of thanks was appropriate to the many members who submitted examples of their work for inclusion in the Showcase. In the end, around 100 entries were received. Is this a record? But whatever the precise number, I would like to thank those who took the trouble to participate. Your contributions have been greatly appreciated.

Those who exhibited layouts or presented demonstrations have already received personalised notes of thanks. But there are a few people outside these groupings who assisted the organising team. Their support needs to be recognised too:

James Moorhouse - for arranging the advertising on the forum, Facebook, RM Web and Western Thunder;
Danny Cockling - for arranging the rota of committee members to host the West Riding Lounge and making his Zoom account available for the meetings;
Alistair Ribbands - for setting up our web site and connecting it to the Society's web site the night before the exhibition opened;
Stephen Crawshaw - for some useful detective work at an early stage in the show's organisation.

Thank you all most sincerely. Your efforts have resulted in a magnificent exhibition which is not only a credit to the Society, but also a signal to the wider modelling world that we are alive and well.

Derek Mathers, (BRUNEL) VS4NI Organiser.

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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Steve Carter » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:40 pm

I had a very good time at the Virtual S4NI last weekend and I am continuing to enjoy the many offerings that were dished up for us all. It was also good to put some faces to names and learn things during the zoom sessions I was involved in.
Well done to Derek and his team.
I look forward to returning to Wakefield in person next year.
Steve Carter

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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Philip Hall » Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:13 pm

I had a very positive comment from a non-member (a well known modeller) who had a look, just out of interest, on the Friday night and found to his surprise that he could look at the event early. He spent a happy hour or so as a result. So all kudos to John D for his efforts and to all involved for making such a good thing of the event.

As for the future of virtual events: well, I am one of those who is going to be cautious about getting out there in circumstances (like an exhibition) that I am not fully in control of. Sitting behind a demonstration table, for example, is a situation where you cannot choose who is in front of you and how close they might like to get to you. OK, we might all be vaccinated, but then again we actually might not all be vaccinated, and we will not know how many visitors to a show either have been, or belong to the minority who think this thing is a great myth. The latter do exist and I know of one or two. So I don't feel inclined, just now, to take the chance, however much I want to meet up, except in ways I can control.

I hope that it all will return to normal, and we can get back to shows, but I think (pessimistically, to be sure) that 'normal' is not going to be what it was for a long time yet. Certainly until next winter is done with and we will see how it all goes. Any kind of social distancing is going to be a real problem for a model railway show.

Neil commented about the South Western Circle's meeting recently and we had two or three times the usual attendance from all over the country, instead of just the South. I also belong to the Ocean Liner Society, which has a world wide membership, and our usual attendance at a London Tuesday evening meeting is about thirty. The first time we tried Zoom it was over a hundred and has been rising every month since then, with members joining from (the last time) eight or more countries, some people from which got up at three in the morning to attend. We have had so many comments that Zoom has made it possible to attend meetings for the first time, and that they have gained much more from their membership. Bit like the Melbourne Finescale Group meetings on a grand scale. I have no idea whether this is a continuing practical idea as far a shows are concerned, but it does show that the new technology we have been forced into is in some respects paying dividends.

I don't want to sound pessimistic (although there will be those who think I am) but I think we have to be realistic, particularly in estimating how many members will actually feel comfortable - at the moment - attending a real event. It seems that there has already been a move towards change with the new venue for Scaleforum, and the number crunching as a result of current events will bring this into a new perspective.

Philip

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Noel
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Noel » Sun Apr 25, 2021 9:53 am

Philip Hall wrote:As for the future of virtual events: well, I am one of those who is going to be cautious about getting out there in circumstances (like an exhibition) that I am not fully in control of.


Given my age, I am not at all intending any criticism of this [I'm booked for my second Covid jab tomorrow], but there is a slightly unreal comparison going on here. We know all about the risks of Covid, but have always lived in happy ignorance of the risks posed by Flu, etc, etc. because government the media were not taking the same approach to what was seen as part of life, albeit with Flu jabs for the vulnerable in recent years. We have always lived with, and still do, risks that we cannot even quantify, let alone control. However, this particular risk has been in the forefront of public attention for long enough that it will probably take some time to revert to background level, even if there are no further spikes. I am aware, incidentally, that I am also subject to not entirely rational concern over this particular risk...

Given that this concern is likely to be quite widespread, the question is partly "What will the law allow and when?", but also, and possibly more relevant, "What will the reactions of the show organisers and the public be?" Social distancing, at any distance, is impossible the way shows were. So, how do organisers address that, if at all? One way systems, limits on numbers inside at busy times, much queueing, mandatory masks, no layouts with operators at the front, barriers in front of demonstrators are all possibilities that come to mind. In addition, as Philip implies, there is likely to be a drop in attendance because of public concern over the perceived risks [which may well exist even if statistically it is not justified]; we are mostly, after all, in high risk groups. Even after shows become possible, I would not be surprised to find that some shows still do not happen, because organisers find the necessary changes impossible to implement, or such as to reduce attendance below the economic limit. Even if the show goes ahead, it will likely not see the same attendance levels for some years, and numbers may even drop further over time because safety measures have removed or seriously reduced many of the social aspects.

Or am I being too pessimistic?
Regards
Noel

David Thorpe

Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby David Thorpe » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:57 pm

I very much enjoyed Scaleforum 2019, and was looking forward to attending, and even helping at, Scalefour 2021. However, it is with some considerable disappointment that I've decided not to go this year. In spite of the fact that I have now had both my jags and am feeling more confident as a result, somehow or other the prolonged lockdown has left me with a disinclination to stray far from my native patch, and while I really don't fancy joining the crowds (what are they?) at a show, or indeed in a strange city (I'd have to change in London), even worse is the thought of hours and hours of hours of train travel, and that's not even taking into account the appallingly uncomfortable seats that for some unfathomable reason East Coast have had installed in their Azumas. So not his year, but hopefully both I and the general situation will be back to normal in 2022, although I suspect that the Azuma seats will still be as bad as ever.
DT

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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby dcockling » Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:37 pm

Noel has quite correctly pointed out that life is full of risks, so speaking only for myself and in no way criticising anyone who feels differently or takes a different view, once two weeks have passed after I have had my second jab, I will consider myself to be as safe from covid 19 as I am ever likely to be and will not care who I meet or get close to: I will take my chances.

I shall of course continue to comply with whatever legal requirements are in place at the time, but as soon as I no longer have to wear a mask, or socially distance, I shall cease to do so.

So far as I'm concerned it can't happen soon enough.

All the Best
Danny (the optimist)

Terry Bendall
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Re: Virtual Scalefour North International - 17th and 18th April 2021

Postby Terry Bendall » Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:16 am

Noel wrote: "What will the law allow and when?",


The answer to that question can be found at https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... pring-2021 which is the "Road map" for restarting. Businesses and organisations are legally required to comply. At the moment things seem to be on course as outlined in the road map.

Noel wrote: "What will the reactions of the show organisers and the public be?"


That of course will depend on the organiser and possibly on the company that provides the insurance for the event. One model show, a one day event that also includes an AGM that is due to happen fairly soon has asked those attending to book either for a morning or an afternoon visit of three hours duration which includes the AGM. That is one way of doing things for a fairly modest event but would not really work for a large show.

I am quite sure that there will be some people who will not want to attend exhibitions in the future. That of course will be up to them. There has been, and always will be, a risk of going out. You might be unfortunate enough to be involved in a road traffic accident on your journey or a train crash. You might get a dose of flu at an exhibition and every year large numbers of people die from flu. All sorts of things might happen but fortunately not too frequently. In the end each person will have to do their own risk assessment of how likely it is they will come to harm and act accordingly.

Sensible people will take sensible precautions. Some might continue to wear a face covering, some might decide they will no longer shake hands, some might decide they are never going to leave their home again. I have now had my second injection and like Danny, I shall take my chance. :D

Terry Bendall


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