Scaleforum 2020

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Fri May 01, 2020 10:44 am

Rod Cameron wrote:But I can't help thinking that this is all being made too complicated, and again I would refer you to the recent RMWeb 'virtual event' linked in my previous post. Maybe not appropriate for all our requirements, but a perfectly good template to work from. All that 'the Society needs to to' (and this would apply whether or not there is a 'real' Scaleforum') is to facilitate the use of this forum by setting up a new folder and subfolders and announcing it.


Thank you for drawing my attention to the RMWeb event of which I was not previously aware. It's very good indeed and i agree that it may well be the best and simplest way to proceed with a virtual Scaleforum event. I'll be interested to see if the Committee agrees and is prepared to facilitate the event as suggested. And Brinkly, I found your wagon converion demonstration very interesting as it gave me one or two ideas as to improving my own efforts which have not always been successful.

Rod Cameron wrote:Why? It's a perfectly pragmatic statement about a) the finances and b) the concept of a virtual show and how it could happen.


I'm sure it is, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't disappointing, to me at least. I was somewhat disheartend by the apparent lack of interest by the committee in getting involved with the event. In particular I felt that the suggestion that those interested should "discuss among yourselves, prepare and submit a business case of some kind" is unrealistic in the present lockdown situation. However, I think that an RMWeb type event might well get round all that.

DT

Armchair Modeller

Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri May 01, 2020 10:57 am

The EM Gauge Monthly 'magazine' is always impressive and interesting

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb167.html

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Rod Cameron » Fri May 01, 2020 11:11 am

How long have the EMGS been running that?
Rod

PhilipT
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby PhilipT » Fri May 01, 2020 11:20 am

They haven't! Kier Hardy and friends do it independently.

Armchair Modeller

Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Armchair Modeller » Fri May 01, 2020 1:55 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:How long have the EMGS been running that?

First one was 2008 Summary http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/site_map.html

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Flymo748
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Flymo748 » Fri May 01, 2020 8:10 pm

David Thorpe wrote:I'm sure it is, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't disappointing, to me at least. I was somewhat disheartend by the apparent lack of interest by the committee in getting involved with the event. In particular I felt that the suggestion that those interested should "discuss among yourselves, prepare and submit a business case of some kind" is unrealistic in the present lockdown situation. However, I think that an RMWeb type event might well get round all that.

DT


Hi David,

Don't assume that the lack of comment from the Committee is lack of interest.

You may have noticed over time that the Committee doesn't give a running commentary on members' discussions on the Forum. That would be rather overbearing to say the least.

There are all sorts of ideas that are being discussed by the Committee, from how to deal with our existing show commitments, to possible alternatives. However the point made about needing people to step forward and do things for the Society does ring true.

The Committee has a certain set of skills and resources. Taking on an entire new task, at a time of lockdown and some people being overworked anyway is not easy. For example, I haven't had time to look at the RMWeb exhibition, and I'm sure that it is good. But RMWeb is a commercial organisation, with a full-time professional employed to build and maintain the website and all surrounding it. That capability is not something the Society can match.

We will try and stimulate debate, weigh in with the voice of past experiences, and provide pointers to what can, and cannot, be done when possible.

Cheers,
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Flymo748
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Flymo748 » Fri May 01, 2020 8:20 pm

Armchair Modeller wrote:The EM Gauge Monthly 'magazine' is always impressive and interesting

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb167.html


I'd forgotten about that monthly update. There is some cracking modelling on show there.

Now to waste some time going back through the archives ;-)

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

Brinkly
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Brinkly » Fri May 01, 2020 9:03 pm

Flymo748 wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:I'm sure it is, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't disappointing, to me at least. I was somewhat disheartend by the apparent lack of interest by the committee in getting involved with the event. In particular I felt that the suggestion that those interested should "discuss among yourselves, prepare and submit a business case of some kind" is unrealistic in the present lockdown situation. However, I think that an RMWeb type event might well get round all that.

DT


Hi David,

Don't assume that the lack of comment from the Committee is lack of interest.

You may have noticed over time that the Committee doesn't give a running commentary on members' discussions on the Forum. That would be rather overbearing to say the least.

There are all sorts of ideas that are being discussed by the Committee, from how to deal with our existing show commitments, to possible alternatives. However the point made about needing people to step forward and do things for the Society does ring true.

The Committee has a certain set of skills and resources. Taking on an entire new task, at a time of lockdown and some people being overworked anyway is not easy. For example, I haven't had time to look at the RMWeb exhibition, and I'm sure that it is good. But RMWeb is a commercial organisation, with a full-time professional employed to build and maintain the website and all surrounding it. That capability is not something the Society can match.

We will try and stimulate debate, weigh in with the voice of past experiences, and provide pointers to what can, and cannot, be done when possible.

Cheers,
Paul Willis
Deputy Chairman


Hi Paul,

Bar Andy authorising the event and drumming up some of the manufacturers and traders to donate items for the raffle and Phil organising the quiz, neither of which happen at the actual show, the day was organised by volunteers, myself being one of them.

Myself and several of the demonstrators drafted advice in certain fields, including photographs and video clips where appropriate.

It wasn't that time consuming to do and was very enjoyable to see what other people were doing in a 'show like' spirit.

Kind regards,

Nick.

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Flymo748
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Flymo748 » Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 pm

Brinkly wrote:
Hi Paul,

Bar Andy authorising the event and drumming up some of the manufacturers and traders to donate items for the raffle and Phil organising the quiz, neither of which happen at the actual show, the day was organised by volunteers, myself being one of them.

Myself and several of the demonstrators drafted advice in certain fields, including photographs and video clips where appropriate.

It wasn't that time consuming to do and was very enjoyable to see what other people were doing in a 'show like' spirit.

Kind regards,

Nick.


Hi Nick,

That's helpful to know - thank you. As I mentioned, I haven't had chance to look at that part of RMWeb, so I'm only going on what I've heard about it secondhand as being a good thing (and that's not just on here). Which I know isn't as good as finding out for myself.

Let's see how this progresses. We have an AGM to get out of the way in virtual form first!

Cheers
Paul
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Will L » Fri May 01, 2020 11:58 pm

Flymo748 wrote:... However the point made about needing people to step forward and do things for the Society does ring true.

The Committee has a certain set of skills and resources. Taking on an entire new task, at a time of lockdown and some people being overworked anyway is not easy...


I suspect that those who have ideas would be willing to help Paul, I think this needs the co-ordination of a small group tasked with talking through the possibilities, refining ideas and then building proposals. Setting that up isn't something a single memeber can do so I was disappointed by Chris's post too. It probably needs some policy input as well so setting it up does look more like committee territory to me, particularly as we are taking potential flagship events here.

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Sat May 02, 2020 9:14 am

Will L wrote:I suspect that those who have ideas would be willing to help Paul, I think this needs the co-ordination of a small group tasked with talking through the possibilities, refining ideas and then building proposals. Setting that up isn't something a single memeber can do so I was disappointed by Chris's post too. It probably needs some policy input as well so setting it up does look more like committee territory to me, particularly as we are taking potential flagship events here.


That's precisely why I was disappointed, Will. It may not have been intentional, but Chris appeared to be saying that the Committee was washing its hands of the whole idea until what is basically a business plan had been prepared by interested members and submitted for consideration. That I think was both unrealistic and unreasonable. That's not to say that the committee should be left to do all the work, but i think that when an idea is mooted that on the face of it seems reasonable and even desireable, the committee should then consider it without any formal presentations and, if they then think it worthwhile, act as a facilitator as you suggest.

Flymo748 wrote:You may have noticed over time that the Committee doesn't give a running commentary on members' discussions on the Forum. That would be rather overbearing to say the least.


I'm not sure what you mean. I would hope that the committee members all read the forum regularly and I must say that i would welcome their joining in discussions.

DT

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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Tim V » Sat May 02, 2020 10:58 am

I'm looking at seeing if I can get an invite for Clutton to come to the virtual S4M.

Well, I have a number of videos that haven't been published - so I'll put some on youtube and post some links.
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat May 02, 2020 11:36 am

As a suggestion (if anyone was willing) would also to have a video or two with some lathe work. The bits and pieces that Jeremy has posted are like gold dust as far as I am concerned .... and if the offering were part of a virtual event then the reach is likely to be much further than a forum thread. :thumb
Tim Lee

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barrowroad
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby barrowroad » Sat May 02, 2020 1:14 pm

Tim, I found this on youtube which features Clutton and Sheep Pasture at the St.Albans Show in 2013.
What a combination:-)



Robin

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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Tim V » Sat May 02, 2020 1:17 pm

I was thinking of putting my own unpublished videos up, plus some links to other people's videos.

But only if Clutton gets invited? Who is in charge of the invites/accommodation/evening entertainments - all things that make the show unique :D
Tim V
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Le Corbusier » Sat May 02, 2020 1:34 pm

Tim V wrote:I was thinking of putting my own unpublished videos up, plus some links to other people's videos.

But only if Clutton gets invited? Who is in charge of the invites/accommodation/evening entertainments - all things that make the show unique :D

Frankly .... I could watch Clutton for hours :thumb
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Noel » Sat May 02, 2020 1:40 pm

Tim V wrote:But only if Clutton gets invited? Who is in charge of the invites/accommodation/evening entertainments - all things that make the show unique


Wot, no virtual curry?
Regards
Noel

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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Tim V » Sat May 02, 2020 1:45 pm

Thanks Tim, but I don't think I've got hours of video ...

However, the plan was to put a load of short videos (rather than one long video) so the viewer can pick and choose, plus links to externally produced videos.

The video of S4M 1996 I thought was a bit boring - and I wanted to move onto something new (the 20 second rule).

So my vision for a 'virtual S4M' is a load of videos of different layouts the viewer can pick and choose from.
Tim V
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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Tim V » Sat May 02, 2020 1:46 pm

Noel wrote:Wot, no virtual curry?


Could put some pictures of a couple of curries up :o
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Will L » Sat May 02, 2020 4:27 pm

Tim V wrote:
Noel wrote:Wot, no virtual curry?


Could put some pictures of a couple of curries up :o

Not necessary. Everybody orders a take away and eats them on camera during a Zoom session.

Have to be careful how you eat it though as zoom will switch to a a picture of whoever is making the most noise at the time.

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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Tim V » Sat May 02, 2020 4:43 pm

Oh no - not Zoom?
Tim V
Scalefour News Editor

DougN
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby DougN » Sat May 02, 2020 11:38 pm

Tim, I would be most interested in seeing more video of Clutton. I recall seeing it at scalefourum in 2014 but not having much time to watch! :thumb
Doug
Still not doing enough modelling

John Duffy
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby John Duffy » Sun May 03, 2020 9:15 am

Will L wrote:
Apart from seeing layout, many people see the real purpose of the show is to be able to see the demos, visit the trades and meet up with friends. A whole series of Video conferences organised over a week end could do all of that , and perhaps produce something more akin to a skills weekend. A team of demonstrators could host individual day long video conference type meetings which "visitors" could join ask a question and leave.


The skills weekend held last year in Linlithgow was, I felt, most successful and was certainly of greater value to me than simply visiting a show.

In relation to demonstrators and doing video conference/Zoom meetings, the advantages include being able to see close up without looking over someone else shoulder and unlike DVD or YouTube demonstrations, those in the meeting would have an opportunity to interact with the demonstrator and perhaps ask them to show something again or to further explain.

I particularly like this idea as it lends itself to that format. Layout videos can be done in a more traditional way but I do think there is an opportunity to see more of what is being produced in the way of home based layouts.

John

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Will L » Sun May 03, 2020 11:26 am

Have a look at the Videos posted on the parallel Shunting Tractor & Superelevation 2FS thread. Apart form being fascinating, these do demonstrate the improvident you get on a Video by adding some production values (proper editing, a descent voice/soundtrack and a story line) to a video. While these particular videos are more demo than layout visit, (and I still think interactive demos would be preferable for the reasons John Duffy gives below), these do show they way to go on layout visit videos. I appreciate many may feel they aren't up to doing this but a small team with the right tools and skills could give Layout Owners significant help and advice and help stitch basic smartphone videos into something much better.

Also see Andy Reichert's post on a Web demo station

John Duffy wrote:The skills weekend held last year in Linlithgow was, I felt, most successful and was certainly of greater value to me than simply visiting a show.

In relation to demonstrators and doing video conference/Zoom meetings, the advantages include being able to see close up without looking over someone else shoulder and unlike DVD or YouTube demonstrations, those in the meeting would have an opportunity to interact with the demonstrator and perhaps ask them to show something again or to further explain.

I particularly like this idea as it lends itself to that format. Layout videos can be done in a more traditional way but I do think there is an opportunity to see more of what is being produced in the way of home based layouts.

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Martin Wynne
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Martin Wynne » Thu May 07, 2020 2:13 pm

Here's an article about using your normal digital camera for online conferences instead of the usual selfie "up your nose" laptop webcam.

It's a bit techy, but worth a read (if you don't mind reading white text on black):

http://friedmanarchives.blogspot.com/20 ... ality.html

Martin.
40+ years developing Templot. And counting ...


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