Scaleforum 2020

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
Terry Bendall
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:06 am

Lots of good ideas but who is actually going to do the work? At the AGM last year it was suggested that we produce instructional videos but no one yet has actually produced anything or even offered to do so. The GOYA principled applies. :D

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Steve Carter
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Steve Carter » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:15 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Lots of good ideas but who is actually going to do the work? At the AGM last year it was suggested that we produce instructional videos but no one yet has actually produced anything or even offered to do so. The GOYA principled applies. :D

Terry Bendall


I managed to find some time at last years Scaleforum to video the construction of a turnout crossing (thank you Tony) and making blades (thank you Phil). I have not checked the quality yet (it’s membership renewal time!) but assuming it’s OK I would welcome some help with editing and presenting please.
If you can help please PM or email me at memsec@scalefour.org.

Thanks in anticipation.

Steve
Last edited by Steve Carter on Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:42 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Lots of good ideas but who is actually going to do the work? At the AGM last year it was suggested that we produce instructional videos but no one yet has actually produced anything or even offered to do so. The GOYA principled applies. :D

Terry Bendall


Surely having ideas and musings is where we are curremtly at?

Only when and if a decision is taken by the committee to cancel this years Scaleforum do such musings take on a concrete life ... or am I misunderstanding things?

If the decision is taken to cancel the show .... and it is deemed desirable to replace it with something in the 'virtual realm' .... then wouldn't it need to be put on a more formal footing complete with working group (having been debated and a potential format agreed upon)?

It seems to me that only at that point would it become live ... in which case there might be be ways and means of providing some level of funding and formal backing in the way that a show might be funded - which would of course depend on there being an actual serious level of interest, which might lead to (for example) the selling of virtual tickets. I for one would be happy to pay my show entry fee for a well considered and well put together virtual offering.

Come what may, I fear that if this idea is to have any legs beyond pipe dreams, then (like with the footage Danny recentlly posted of the 1996 Forum), the outside help of people with the right skillsets is more than ikely to be required.
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:13 am

Le Corbusier wrote:If the decision is taken to cancel the show .... and it is deemed desirable to replace it with something in the 'virtual realm' .... then wouldn't it need to be put on a more formal footing complete with working group (having been debated and a potential format agreed upon)?


Quite. But all that is going to take time and I doubt very much if it could be ready by the end of September. But there again, why should it be? There is surely no reason why, if Scaleforum is cancelled, there might not be, for example, a Virtual Scaleforum Christmas Show. That would, I think, give sufficient time to put something worthwhile together and if the lockdown is ended or at least eased by the autumn it might then be easier to get help with photographing layouts, etc. And when Terry, with his practical by rather pessimistic hat on, askes who is going to do all the work, I would again suggest that it could at least start on an area group basis although there would be nothing to stop individuals who want to participate but are not members of a group either contacting their local group or going direct to the central co-ordinator who would also be the final video editor. That latter, I suspect, will be the most difficult post to fill.

DT

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Will L » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:09 pm

Terry Bendall wrote:Lots of good ideas but who is actually going to do the work? At the AGM last year it was suggested that we produce instructional videos but no one yet has actually produced anything or even offered to do so. The GOYA principled applies. l


Certainly true, that is, if all you're expecting is for somebody to share a layout video off their own bat. But you would not expect an exhibition, or for that matter Scalefour News to be organised like that. They don't just appear, they exit as an act of the executive committee's will, and in the first instance it would be for the committee to start moving things forward.

If we want the society to encourage the production of multiple magazine quality layout videos, as good or better than the one Danny Posted, then we need as a society appointed editor/production team, not just to inveigle layout owners into participating but also to provide production assistance, advice and guidance.

Then, if we want to produce a virtual skills day to replace Scaleforum, I would have thought the organization would be very much like any exhibition, requiring a society appointed manager and team to sort out technical and logical details, which includes inviting people into participating. First step would be to set up a small project team group to consider the idea and determine what could really be achieved and what the cost would be

David Thorpe wrote:..But all that is going to take time and I doubt very much if it could be ready by the end of September.

I notice the the RHS Chelsea flower show is already setting off down this rout, and
I personally think a Virtual event for the Scaleforum weekend is entirety doable

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:33 am

Will L wrote:I notice the the RHS Chelsea flower show is already setting off down this rout, and I personally think a Virtual event for the Scaleforum weekend is entirety doable


That's great, Will, and I hope that your optimism is justified. I was of the mind that if a decision is made to cancel Scaleforum, possibly in mid July or thereabouts, it would only leave a couple of months to set up the steering group, let it.come to a recommendation, have that considered by the committee, appoint the necessary manager and team, and then decide on the layouts and get the videos made, which I felt was cutting things a bit fine. However you know the inner working of the Society far more than I do so it may well be perfectly feasible, especially if some preparation work was possibly done before any actual decision was made.

Your view of the event itself is also a bit different from the one I envisaged. You clearly envisage an event showing the best that the Society can offer - "the production of multiple magazine quality layout videos" whileas I had been thinking of a more modest display showing layouts from a number of members that might not necesarily be of exhibition standard and would not normally be seen by the membership at large, but nevertheless show that the Society is alive and well and that ordinary people can produce working P4 layouts even if they're not up to the standard we normally see in magazines. I'm in two minds about the excellent layouts that we do see at shows and am never quite sure whether they're insprational or depressing - inspirational because they show the superb results that can be achieved at the highest level, depressing because I know full well that I personally will never reach such a high standard, so what is the point. At the moment (between gardening and fixing the cistern on the loo) I'm working on a model that is giving me nothing but trouble and certainly no enjoyment, so my modelling mojo at the moment is pretty low.

DT

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Will L » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:11 am

David Thorpe wrote:
Will L wrote:I notice the the RHS Chelsea flower show is already setting off down this rout, and I personally think a Virtual event for the Scaleforum weekend is entirety doable


That's great, Will, and I hope that your optimism is justified. I was of the mind that if a decision is made to cancel Scaleforum, possibly in mid July or thereabouts, it would only leave a couple of months to set up the steering group, let it.come to a recommendation, have that considered by the committee, appoint the necessary manager and team, and then decide on the layouts and get the videos made, which I felt was cutting things a bit fine. However you know the inner working of the Society far more than I do so it may well be perfectly feasible, especially if some preparation work was possibly done before any actual decision was made.


Not sure I'm that close to our inner workings. Its more that having seen a possibility, I was inclined to think that unless the committee takes the idea seriously soon, what you say would be true. So a little push... I expect I'll find out soon enough if they do.

Your view of the event itself is also a bit different from the one I envisaged. You clearly envisage an event showing the best that the Society can offer - "the production of multiple magazine quality layout videos" whileas I had been thinking of a more modest display showing layouts from a number of members that might not necesarily be of exhibition standard and would not normally be seen by the membership at large, but nevertheless show that the Society is alive and well and that ordinary people can produce working P4 layouts even if they're not up to the standard we normally see in magazines.


Keep in mind my thinking started with video's and wondering, once you have such a thing, did it make sense to just make them available for a "show" weekend? Surely making them available more or less permanently would be a better plan. Once you’re on that road I'm not sure Layout Videos are any more than peripheral to a Virtual Scaleforum weekend.

In my mind, what would be central would inevitably be much more to do with the other elements, video demo's, trader contact and possibly chat rooms. This is much more in line with the successful skill day sessions that have been held recently, than your traditional Scaleforum. That's the bit which I do think we have plenty enough time to organise.

Once having seen layout videos as a separate issue, it occurred to me to wondered if we should continue to see the magazine published article as the pinnacle of layout publishing? In the video age couldn’t we do a lot better than what regularly turns up on YouTube. Danny’s posting showed we certainly could. So perhaps the society could do with having a good think about the best way to publish such video's so we can help people who fancy a bit of vanity publishing and publicise P4 while they are at it. Decent production values can make a real difference.

..(between gardening and fixing the cistern on the loo)...

Our lives are showing distinct similarities. I find Ebay is a good source of cistern spares, mine only took about 4 days to come. How's your garage door, I'm waiting on spares for that too now. My current troublesome modelling issue is to with driving wheel balance weights. I may publish my pain in a week or two.

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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Noel » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:53 am

David Thorpe wrote:I'm in two minds about the excellent layouts that we do see at shows and am never quite sure whether they're insprational or depressing - inspirational because they show the superb results that can be achieved at the highest level, depressing because I know full well that I personally will never reach such a high standard, so what is the point.


I don't find them either inspiring or depressing really, just irrelevant much of the time. I long ago decided that I was never going to reach the standards that can be achieved, as I don't really have the inclination to spend the amount of time required, by all except the very gifted few, to achieve them. I'm not being sarcastic, I can and do admire the standards some people achieve, I just don't particularly want to do it myself, although I do want to improve where possible and achieve the best I can. My main interests are the history and operation of the prototype and their replication in a model, areas in which all too many layouts, whether P4 or not, are all too deficient. I have no interest in layouts, however well modelled and however good the standard of running, if the three dimensional picture presented is not convincing as a picture of a former or current reality.

I rarely attend Scaleforum these days, because layouts tend to concentrate on the standard of modelling, rather than realism of appearance and operation; the virtual version would, I think, accentuate this tendency. I say this because the most likely format, I fear, is a programme of an arbitrary set of 'highlights', as seen by the editor of the programme. Scaleforum is seen as a place for conversations with layout operators, demonstrators and other modellers [not reasonably replicable virtually, I suggest], discussing wants with and buying from traders [ditto for discussion but with alternatives for purchasing] and looking at layouts [possible virtually in a degraded form, but with always with viewpoints and duration dictated by others].

My own suggestion would be to forget about Scaleforum 2020 completely. Videos of layouts seen rarely or never in public is a potentially interesting idea, but should be looked at as a stand-alone project, and not as a substitute for Scaleforum. Building up a library of layout videos provides the possibility of concentrating on those layouts of interest to a potential viewer, without that person being forced to wade through a boring half hour of other things to find the two minutes showing the layout he really wanted to see, and then feeling 'short changed'. Such a library, if possible, might be a longer term attraction than a virtual Scaleforum.
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Noel

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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Neil Smith » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:38 pm

Noel wrote:...the most likely format, I fear, is a programme of an arbitrary set of 'highlights', as seen by the editor of the programme.


This does surely depend entirely on the editorial decision-making behind any video. There are many people on here who it is clear to me as a beginner do put in huge amount of effort into achieving realism of all sorts. If someone has gone to the effort of interlocking their signalling to accurately ensure safe operation, built locomotives and rolling stock that move realistically, and researched the correct methods and workable timetable for that location and era, and operate to meet all these aims, then I would have thought that demonstrating this on video would be the ideal narrative for this person? What better way of showing off a layout than actually showing (say) the signalling process to set up the route and signals, the train coming into view, with more bell codes to give "out of section" and to request the next movement if needed, shunting, departing, etc. etc.? This does not even need commentary ramming this point home - though simple explanation through captions or voiceover could add to the educational aspect and explain the rationale of the layout.

Noel wrote:Building up a library of layout videos provides the possibility of concentrating on those layouts of interest to a potential viewer, without that person being forced to wade through a boring half hour of other things to find the two minutes showing the layout he really wanted to see, and then feeling 'short changed'. Such a library, if possible, might be a longer term attraction than a virtual Scaleforum.


I agree that having individual videos for individual layouts would be the way forward here - compilation videos have their place, but inevitably there will be bits I want to skip over for whatever reason. If these videos are to serve as a lasting advertisement for finescale modelling then I think they'd be better loaded individually but could be linked from a portal page on the Society website.

All the best

Neil

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Rod Cameron » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:10 pm

Neil Smith wrote:I agree that having individual videos for individual layouts would be the way forward here - compilation videos have their place, but inevitably there will be bits I want to skip over for whatever reason. If these videos are to serve as a lasting advertisement for finescale modelling then I think they'd be better loaded individually but could be linked from a portal page on the Society website


That's how I would see it too.

Regarding the 1996 video posted by Danny (and a few more to come) they were all done by a commercial company commissioned by the Scaleforum organising committee at the time, not by the Society or any individual member. That's not to say there are no members with the expertise to do it, especially in this digital age.

Yesterday RMWeb held a very successful online hosting of the cancelled South West Area Group event in Taunton. Layouts past and present were shown, demonstrations presented (including by DRAG members who had clearly worked hard in putting stuff together beforehand) and there was plenty of social interaction and banter. It also raised over £6000 for NHS Charities Together, much of it through a raffle for prizes donated by various companies and individuals. OK, the Scalefour Society doesn't have the membership base of RMWeb but it shows what can be done to emulate an exhibition under current conditions.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index ... -together/
Rod

Chris Mitton
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Re: Virtual Scaleforum 2020

Postby Chris Mitton » Mon Apr 27, 2020 6:58 pm

Hi all...

First, to correct a misapprehension: someone (I forget who) talked, a few posts ago, about "the financial loss that Scaleforum usually entails". If you look at the last few published accounts with an accountant's eye (and the soon-to-be-published results for 2019-20), the Scaleforum "cost centre" (I hate that phrase!) does indeed lose money. Terry's swan song included some large layouts and concomitant costs, not to mention a
shortage of traders, so that's exactly what the Committee expected and budgeted for. But if you take the more holistic view of my Treasurer's
Reports (and my colleagues), you could factor in, for instance, the nearly four thousand Jeremy took on his Stores that weekend, which is
three grand more than a "normal" month, plus new memberships.....altogether, on that view, Scaleforum didn't lose much at all. If the number of members who bothered to come had exceeded even our most pessimistic mathematically projected forecast (it didn't, sadly), we'd have made a net gain. The preceding few years have all finished just about in the black on this analysis - which, considering it's the Society's major event of the year, is as it should be, and I'm entirely comfortable with it.

Second, a question. If a "Virtual Scaleforum" is a good idea (it probably is), why does it have to depend on the "real" Scaleforum not taking place? Can't we have both? Preparations are happening for "real" Scaleforum, and it will happen if, but only if, we are convinced it is legal, possible, practical, financially viable and above all safe to go ahead - but at this moment lots of factors are still in the lap of the gods, so alternatives need consideration. As has been remarked, there are a lot of "layouts that never leave home", lots of practical demonstrations that would benefit from repeat viewings, traders could demonstrate their wares and how to put them together (for instance), and in any case 80% of our members don't get to our exhibitions and many of them can't even if they want to. The missing bit would be the social experience that many members value and only comes from a "live" meeting. And we're not exactly in Carey Street.

Third, a challenge. In this thread, the tone of some contributions seems to be "here is an idea, what is the Society going to do about it?". So who is "the Society"? No, it's not me, Steve, ChairmanJohn and the rest of the Committee, it's all of us. If you ask the Committee "how about organising a Virtual Scaleforum?" (or anything else, for that matter) the answer might well be "Running a world-wide society is challenging enough at the best of times, which these aren't, and we won't spend a meeting going round for hours arguing about what it might look like, so No". But if you ask "Would the Society be prepared to sponsor, publicise and fund event A to be held on date B, organised by members C, D and E, but needing professional expertise from F and G that would mean a cost of £X", I suspect most if not all of my colleagues would be enthusiastic - especially if "date B" was "ongoing" or "annual". In other words, discuss among yourselves, prepare and submit a business case of some kind and we'll consider whether the likely outcome would justify the expense (it probably would, within reason, in the circs.). It doesn't have to be like the 100-plus-page monsters inflicted on me in my working life, a page or two of A4 and a few figures should suffice. As a guide, I've attached a document used in the past for various outfits seeking funding from the Society to give them a structure to work in.

The Committee meets again on May 13 and July 15, probably virtually - but we also have processes for making decisions between meetings, and our online meeting is in almost continuous session, so any time is the right time to come up with ideas. If the Committee gets deluged with thought-through and costed proposals before then, no-one (with the possible exception of ChairmanJohn!) will be more delighted than I .....

Regards

TreasurerChris
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:35 am

Well Chris, you seem to have killed this topic stone dead!

DT

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johndarch
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby johndarch » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:49 am

Thank you for a well reasoned post Chris.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Virtual Scaleforum 2020

Postby Le Corbusier » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:20 am

Chris Mitton wrote: If a "Virtual Scaleforum" is a good idea (it probably is), why does it have to depend on the "real" Scaleforum not taking place? Can't we have both?


I suppose the theme of my thoughts on the subject were that if Scaleforum did not happen .... and given current advice and strategies that would seem a distinct possibility ... then some form of replacement might be worth discussing.

Of course you could have an and/also scenario ... but then you would need a completely new organising committee, new cost centre etc etc. There may be those in the society with both the will and the free time to embark upon such a project, but that is very differrent from airing ideas about how existing capacity might be redirected. Additional volunteers might emerge if such a move were made.

I fully understand if there is no desire to redirect .... but I see no harm in bouncing around a few ideas. ;)
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Terry Bendall » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:51 am

Noel wrote:I long ago decided that I was never going to reach the standards that can be achieved,

David Thorpe wrote: I personally will never reach such a high standard, so what is the point.


Two comments on the same theme. How does anyone know they will not achieve until they try? Something I have said before - no one was born as a highly skilled model maker, just as no great sports person, artist or musician was born with their respective skills. The only way you get better is to practice, accept that things go wrong, perhaps occasionally put it in the bin or under the hammer and keep going. How far anyone is willing to go down that path is up to the individual but when you do there is great satisfaction.

Noel wrote:I rarely attend Scaleforum these days, because layouts tend to concentrate on the standard of modelling, rather than realism of appearance and operation;


Had you actually come, I think you would have found that this was not the case. In any case realism of appearance and operation is all part of trying to achieve a high standard of modelling. They are not mutually exclusive. It would be possible to replicate accurate operation using ready to run stock, sectional track and RTR signals just as many years ago, the big railway had signalling schools with quite nice but by no means "scale" stock.

Terry Bendall

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:45 am

johndarch wrote:Thank you for a well reasoned post Chris.


Really? I have to say that I found Chris's post a bit disappointing and not really very helpful in the present situation.

DT

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Noel
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Noel » Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:46 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Noel wrote: I long ago decided that I was never going to reach the standards that can be achieved

Two comments on the same theme. How does anyone know they will not achieve until they try? Something I have said before - no one was born as a highly skilled model maker, just as no great sports person, artist or musician was born with their respective skills. The only way you get better is to practice, accept that things go wrong, perhaps occasionally put it in the bin or under the hammer and keep going. How far anyone is willing to go down that path is up to the individual but when you do there is great satisfaction.


I'll leave David to comment if he wants to do so, but I do feel a little misquoted here :), as I did state that it was because I didn't want to spend the time on it that it takes to achieve the sort of standards that, for example, Julian demonstrates in his Compound thread [although I do doubt I have the inherent skill to match his work - you can work as hard as you like, but high quality work always requires talent to start with]. I have been modelling for over 45 years; in that time quite a few things have gone in the bin for one reason or another, and some years ago I looked at all my stock in the light of my contemporary standards and rebuilt, or repainted, or disposed of a significant proportion of my previous work. Anyone can have aspirations, but it does help to have a realistic idea of what you can expect to achieve, given your skill set, and the available time, or else you can make yourself terribly depressed because you never achieve what you think [or others tell you] you should.

There is also the question of "Just because you can do it, should you?" Do you want a small number of high quality items, or a larger number of slightly lower quality items? What sort of picture do you want to show, either to yourself or others, and what will it take to achieve that? How long will it take using a certain set of standards, and how much longer if those standards are improved? Will an improvement in one area make other aspects look out of place, leading to a cascade of necessary improvements which will take up too much time? Will an improvement in standards increase you enjoyment from modelling or reduce it? You are right in what you say about only knowing what you can achieve by trying, and that how far down that road they go is for the individual to decide, but your implied conclusion that the further down the road you go, the greater the satisfaction is not necessarily true.

Terry Bendall wrote:It would be possible to replicate accurate operation using ready to run stock, sectional track and RTR signals


Very true; so why do so many layouts, of all scales and gauges, fail so badly on this very point?
Regards
Noel

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby David Thorpe » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:25 am

Terry Bendall wrote:Two comments on the same theme. How does anyone know they will not achieve until they try? Something I have said before - no one was born as a highly skilled model maker, just as no great sports person, artist or musician was born with their respective skills. The only way you get better is to practice, accept that things go wrong, perhaps occasionally put it in the bin or under the hammer and keep going


Well, I've no doubt that I don't spend anything like as much time modelling as many do - I've plenty of other things going on it my life - but it's not just a question of ability. I can turn out a respectable loco or coach kit and build some track to run them on, but I've neither the patience, time, nor, dare I say it, desire to take these models to the highest possible level. That's my choice. But some elements are not and cannot be my choice. A truly successful model railway is as much a work of art as it of engineering. You can get the track down and the trains running, but then artistry takes over to a considerable extent, not to mention the creation of atmosphere that so many otherwise good layouts lack. I sadly am no artist and it is not in my genetic make up to become one, just as it was not in my genetic makeup to become more than a Sunday league footballer. I don't agree with you when you say that no great artist or musician was born with their respective skills - while such skills clearly have to be nurtured, it is nevertheless the case that some few people have something just a wee bit extra that takes them that ltlle but vital bit further. And of course many of the great layouts today have been built by a team of people, each with different skills, knowledge and talents.

DT

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Rod Cameron » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:12 pm

David Thorpe wrote:
johndarch wrote:Thank you for a well reasoned post Chris.


Really? I have to say that I found Chris's post a bit disappointing and not really very helpful in the present situation.

DT


Why? It's a perfectly pragmatic statement about a) the finances and b) the concept of a virtual show and how it could happen.

But I can't help thinking that this is all being made too complicated, and again I would refer you to the recent RMWeb 'virtual event' linked in my previous post. Maybe not appropriate for all our requirements, but a perfectly good template to work from. All that 'the Society needs to to' (and this would apply whether or not there is a 'real' Scaleforum') is to facilitate the use of this forum by setting up a new folder and subfolders and announcing it.

Members can film their layouts or whatever they are working on, in video uploaded to YouTube, or still photographs, and post what they are doing on the allotted day. Other members can chip in, comment and 'have a conversation'. Same applies to demonstrations. Traders could have a separate subfolder to promote their wares. A separate subfolder could be used for the socially-distanced challenge subject to the procedures of that initiative.

<Nike slogan>
Rod

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Captain Kernow
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Captain Kernow » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Well said, Rod.

The RMWeb event was very well organised and was very enjoyable to be involved with. Of course, all of us who regularly attend that event would have preferred to have been there in person again, but this really was 'the next best thing'.
Tim M
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Brinkly » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:49 pm

As Tim and Rod have said, the RMWeb event ran very smoothly and was most enjoyable.

I drafted a couple of posts on converting and building wagons to P4 standards, which were very well received, with many forum members 'bookmarking' the posts for future reference.

It wasn't the same as being at a real show, but it was nice to interact in a 'show-like' spirit during this horrid period!

Kind regards,
Nick

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johndarch
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby johndarch » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:49 pm

The RMWeb virtual exhibition was a great day out without actually going out. It can be done.

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Horsetan
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Horsetan » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:58 pm

johndarch wrote:The RMWeb virtual exhibition was a great day out without actually going out. It can be done.


Online makes "travelling without moving" possible. Its only downside is that we miss visiting the trade stands.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

Julian Roberts
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Julian Roberts » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:12 am

Regarding the Noel/David/Terry discussion, in the music/sports/art world it's 99% hard work, and very long hours, that gets the people with that extra bit of talent to the top (- or to the place that they can earn a living from it). Noel being to my surprise kind enough to mention me, I have no realistic ambition to make a layout of any significance, I think in P4 it's got to be a collaboration, I just enjoy making locos for the club layout, which is of a standard and scale that I could never achieve on my own even if I were 40 years younger. The collaboration is what makes the hobby worthwhile I think. TBH making a loco and taking part with it at an exhibition is very analogous to learning the bassoon part of a piece of music, taking it into the orchestra and playing in the concert - far more rewarding at every level than playing alone.

Terry Bendall
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Re: Scaleforum 2020

Postby Terry Bendall » Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:09 am

Julian Roberts wrote:in the music/sports/art world it's 99% hard work, and very long hours, that gets the people with that extra bit of talent to the top (- or to the place that they can earn a living from it).


Yes some truth in that. I certainly don't claim to be at
David Thorpe wrote: the highest possible level.
but two of my efforts in collaboration with my son can be seen at https://www.scalefour.org/scaleforum/2013/elcotroad/ and https://www.scalefour.org/scaleforum/20 ... ftsidings/

I don't claim these to be top level, they have never won any "best layout" awards but they please us and others have commented favourably. I also don't claim any artistic skills - far from it, but in the case of Elcot Road in particular, I have overheard comments from exhibition visitors saying that it gives the feel of what it tries to represent.

Not very long hours - Elcot Road was built over a period of 2 1/2 years with the construction described each month in Rail Express magazine so deadlines to meet. Ravenscroft Sidings was built for the Society's diesel and electric layout challenge and two of the three boards were constructed over less than two years so deadlines again. Both layouts included the stock and locos although a lot of that was detailed RTR items so some time saved but also quite a lot of kits built and nothing gets run straight out of the box.

In the end you do what you want to do and try to enjoy i, and that works for me. :D

Terry Bendall


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