Scaleforum 2019

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Tim V » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:28 pm

David Thorpe wrote:I'm sure that's good - if you know people at the show and have "old chums" there. If you come from an area that has very few P4 modellers and as a result know hardly anybody at the show, and virtually nobody wears a name badge, then there is no social aspect. Going round the show may be OK even if there isn't much social interaction, but a lonely takeaway in your hotel room after the show isn't much fun. I have long campaigned for members at the show to wear name badges, but it has never happened. Until it does I think that the show might properly be perceived as cliquey.

DT

Have you seen this thread David?
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=6056
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Terry Bendall
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Terry Bendall » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:29 pm

David Thorpe wrote:I have long campaigned for members at the show to wear name badges, but it has never happened.


Not every one does, but some do, so it is not correct to say it has never happened, and we cannot make people wear badges

David Thorpe wrote:as a result know hardly anybody at the show,
.

There was a time when I knew very few members of the Society but if you never or rarely come you won't get to know people. Having had the privilege of organising Scaleforum in the last 10 years I have had the pleasure of meeting many members of the Society, including a substantial number who live in Scotland. The only way that I have achieved that is by taking the Society stand to Model Rail Scotland, not the best show for those who are interested in the "fine scale" aspect of the hobby, but I can be sure of meeting a good number of our Scottish members.

For any Society member, not coming because you don't know many people is self defeating. Those who never come will never meet other members. Once you come you will meet a few people and gradually meet more. Simple really. :thumb

This year at Scaleforum, Burntisland is coming with 12 people helping to run it, and there are three other Scottish members coming to help with stewarding. Almost home from home. :) Why not see if you can get a lift from one of those coming. Not only that but there will be a group with whom you can socialise. :D

Terry Bendall

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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby allanferguson » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:12 am

Some years back I took up the offer of a name badge and wore it for the day. Nobody else seemed to have one (other than exhibitors), and nobody greeted me by name who didn't already know me. So I didn't bother again. I still think it's a good thing, though!
Perhaps everyone could be given (not "offered") a badge at the door. I think most would know how to write their names, but the offer of a suitable pen might help.

Allan F

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chrisf
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby chrisf » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:17 am

David Thorpe wrote:
Paul Townsend wrote:I reckon the social aspect is also important. Meeting old chums and exchanging reminiscences of the year's modelling successes and disasters.

I'm sure that's good - if you know people at the show and have "old chums" there. If you come from an area that has very few P4 modellers and as a result know hardly anybody at the show, and virtually nobody wears a name badge, then there is no social aspect. Going round the show may be OK even if there isn't much social interaction, but a lonely takeaway in your hotel room after the show isn't much fun. I have long campaigned for members at the show to wear name badges, but it has never happened. Until it does I think that the show might properly be perceived as cliquey.

DT


A vote for badges from me. I lead by example and sometimes wonder what those who do not sport them have to hide ... :x

I've been through the far from splendid isolation on Saturday night at a two-day show far too often. Last year I took a punt and booked a table at an eating place within stumbling distance of my accommodation. Some other people turned up and we had quite a good tme. I am minded to do that again this year. Head on block time: if anyone has nothing better to do on S4um Saturday night send me a PM and we'll try and sort something out.

Chris

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:24 am

Terry Bendall wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:I have long campaigned for members at the show to wear name badges, but it has never happened.

Not every one does, but some do, so it is not correct to say it has never happened, and we cannot make people wear badges


During the seven or so years I have been going to Scalefour North I cannot recall seeing anyone wearing a name badge except for exhibitors and committee members and me (I must have missed Allan when he had one). And while I appreciate that people cannot be made to wear name badges they can at least be encouraged or asked to do so. I wholeheartedly agree with Allan's suggestion that badges should be handed out at the door, with a request that they should be worn.

DT

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chrisf
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby chrisf » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:22 pm

David Thorpe wrote:During the seven or so years I have been going to Scalefour North I cannot recall seeing anyone wearing a name badge except for exhibitors and committee members and me (I must have missed Allan when he had one). And while I appreciate that people cannot be made to wear name badges they can at least be encouraged or asked to do so. I wholeheartedly agree with Allan's suggestion that badges should be handed out at the door, with a request that they should be worn.

DT


You must have missed me as well ...

Chris

John Palmer
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby John Palmer » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:36 pm

I try, not always successfully, to remember to take my Society name badge with me to events such as Scalefour North, and indeed I think there's a picture of it in one of the retrospectives. It is so old that it's in black and white and thus pre-dates the Society's 'blue' corporate image, but it should be apparent that I went to some trouble making it up with the correct typeface (the name of which now escapes me), applied using Letraset. Anyhow, it goes to show that name badge wearing by non-exhibitors is not unheard of.

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jim s-w
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby jim s-w » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:49 pm

David Thorpe wrote: I have long campaigned for members at the show to wear name badges, but it has never happened. Until it does I think that the show might properly be perceived as cliquey.

DT


Surely the point of a show is to talk to people (if you want to) about what they are doing and not because of who they are? I don’t see how having a name badge changes that TBH

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Andy W
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Andy W » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:18 pm

If I start wearing a name badge at home would my wife start talking to me?
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Knuckles » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:13 pm

Trying to stamp out cliques is an exercise in futility, for they are natural established social constructs. Mechanically you can go against them to a degree, yet they will prevail.
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:02 pm

jim s-w wrote:Surely the point of a show is to talk to people (if you want to) about what they are doing and not because of who they are? I don’t see how having a name badge changes that TBH

It would appear that for a lot of people, the social aspect - meeting old friends - is one of the most important aspects of Scaleforum. They'll meet these people because they've got to know and like them, not because of what they do although that may be how they first got into contact. If the only socialisation at Scaleforum was to talk to people because of what they do I think a lot of members would be quite disappointed. As for name badges, there are people whose posts I read on this forum, indeed with whom I might have a virtual discussion, and who I'm sure I'd like to meet. If they wore name badges I'd be able to recognise them. As it is, i could be standing next to such a person watching a leyout and neither of us would be any wiser as to other's identity.

But just because a few people may not see the point of badges, is that sufficient reason for the Society not to promote them?

DT

Philip Hall
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Philip Hall » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:09 pm

I think the Society does promote badges and has done so for a few years now; a little before our events something comes up on the Forum telling you how to apply and where they can be picked up. Short of insisting Society members don’t get in without wearing a name tag there’s not much more you can do.

Philip

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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby allanferguson » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:27 am

The poor souls who man the desk have enough problems without me. But when I tried to collect my (preordered) badge it appeared to cause a minor panic behind the desk -- and a bit of a queue behind me. I really felt I shouldn't bother -- but then they found it. But evidently name badges were not part of the routine.

Allan F

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:37 am

Philip Hall wrote:I think the Society does promote badges and has done so for a few years now; a little before our events something comes up on the Forum telling you how to apply and where they can be picked up. Short of insisting Society members don’t get in without wearing a name tag there’s not much more you can do.

Sorry Philip but there is. Yes, it's been possible to pre-order a badge but not surprisingly most people don't bother. What the Society could do is what Allan suggested and have badges available at the desk on entry to the show, giving one to each member together with a pen to write their name on the badge and a request to wear it. If the society member decided not to wear it he wouldn't be required to do so though I cannot for the life of think why, in what purports to be a friendly society, he'd choose not to.

DT

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Noel
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Noel » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:49 am

When it was decided to make badges available at Scaleforum virtually all of our area group collected theirs, and wore them. I still have mine. However, I would now feel very conspicuous if I did so, as so few other people seem to. It appears that this is one of those matters where members have 'voted with their feet'; the great majority don't want to do it.

So far as hand written badges is concerned, there are practical problems. Firstly, if there is already a queue to pay and enter the exhibition, you do not need the additional delay involved in people writing name tags [especially if the next person in the queue is not a Society member]. This can be dealt with by making the facility to do it available inside the entry beyond the payment area, but then many will walk straight past it for any one of a number of reasons [although not standing in another queue is possibly favourite here]. Secondly there is the variety of individual writing. Most is often quite difficult to read at any distance greater than a few inches [untidy, too small, etc.] which makes such badges not particularly useful.
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Tim V
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Tim V » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:33 am

David Thorpe wrote:If they wore name badges I'd be able to recognise them. As it is, i could be standing next to such a person watching a leyout and neither of us would be any wiser as to other's identity.

But just because a few people may not see the point of badges, is that sufficient reason for the Society not to promote them?

DT

Some people might like to speak to you. Unfortunately, your avatar does not give away what you look like. So they look frantically around at the name badges.

There was a campaign (by Danny I think it was - pre forum) to publish pictures of members of the society so we would recognise other members. Some people took advantage of this.

And don't forget, you could bump into other members outside/away from our shows. No name badges there.
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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:36 am

Noel wrote:When it was decided to make badges available at Scaleforum virtually all of our area group collected theirs, and wore them. I still have mine. However, I would now feel very conspicuous if I did so, as so few other people seem to. It appears that this is one of those matters where members have 'voted with their feet'; the great majority don't want to do it.

I think it's more likely that members can't be bothered/aren't sufficiently motivated to pre-order badges. If badges were handed out at the desk I'd hope that most people would wear them. If the great majority just don't want to wear them it can only be because they want to preserve their own little cliques - otherwise I really can't understand why, at a Society show, they wouldn't.
Noel wrote:So far as hand written badges is concerned, there are practical problems. Firstly, if there is already a queue to pay and enter the exhibition, you do not need the additional delay involved in people writing name tags [especially if the next person in the queue is not a Society member]. This can be dealt with by making the facility to do it available inside the entry beyond the payment area, but then many will walk straight past it for any one of a number of reasons [although not standing in another queue is possibly favourite here]. Secondly there is the variety of individual writing. Most is often quite difficult to read at any distance greater than a few inches [untidy, too small, etc.] which makes such badges not particularly useful.

As you say, another desk could be set aside for people to fill in their name badges - after they pay for entry they could then be given a badge and a pen and asked to do the necessary, returning the pen to the desk when finished (you'd need quite a lot of pens but boxes of 50 are available at Amazon and no doubt other retailers for less than a fiver delivered). Time taken would only be seconds, and the desk could be wide enough to allow several people to complete their badges at the same time. As for handwriting, people could be asked to complete their name using block capitals, but in any event I don't think that the problem is as great as you make out (or maybe I've got better eye-sight!)

Isn't it at least worth a try, perhaps starting at Scalefour North next year? If that happens I might actually go.

DT

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Rod Cameron
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Rod Cameron » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:49 pm

David Thorpe wrote:Isn't it at least worth a try, perhaps starting at Scalefour North next year? If that happens I might actually go.


This is getting a bit surreal. Are you saying that your decision to go or not go is based on people wearing name badges? I know, you could volunteer to man the badges desk! ;)

At professional conferences everyone usually has badges, but that analogy doesn't work, mainly because the list of delegates is known in advance and everyone can scan the list to see who is there and who to seek out (or avoid). But you do end up with a lot of squinting at lapels during the first coffee break.

Having a photo library of members is not a bad idea (including having them as avatars on here) but not everyone is comfortable doing that, sometimes for entirely valid professional reasons.

So what are the name badges for exactly? For those who are not Society officers, this could be:

1) This person writes or posts a lot, and I'm curious to know what they look like. I'm sure we have all been there. But is that reason enough?
2) I like what this person has done and I'd like to meet them to say so.
3) I don't understand what this person has done and I'd like to ask about/discuss it.

For 2) and 3), you could contact them beforehand by PM, email or letter and arrange to meet, assuming they are themselves going. Or ask at the Society stand - they might be able to put out a PA.

Also don't forget that a significant proportion of visitors to our events are not members who might be a bit non-plussed by it all or even wrongly criticised for not wearing a badge.
Rod

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LesGros
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby LesGros » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:00 pm

Tim V wrote:
...Some people might like to speak to you. Unfortunately, your avatar does not give away what you look like. So they look frantically around at the name badges...

David,
Tim makes a valid point; I have been recognised by strangers (to me) on numerous occasions, both at Scalefour Society events and at Glasgow SECC.

However, you and I had met a couple of times before I made the connection to your wee blue loco.

I do agree that the wearing of member name badges is a good idea; especially as I can usually remember faces and places, but unfortunately, names oft escape my memory.
LesG

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Joe Newman
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Joe Newman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:01 pm

Wearing a badge can bring unexpected bits of information.

On reading from my badge that I came from Salisbury one delegate told me his chief memory of the city in the 1950s.

He was in the Market Inn and a WRAC sergeant came in, ordered 6 pints of beer, drank the lot, and walked out.

Those were the days!

Joe

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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:40 pm

I could bring my armchair. That would be a clue - and a very useful one at that ;)

Seriously though, I find the idea of everyone being expected to wander around a public exhibition with names attached mildly repulsive - even one as relatively unpublic as Scaleforum.

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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby LesGros » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:50 pm

Richard,
Oh dear! :o Are you suggesting that the absence of a name-badge should be taken as code for: "I'm feeling antisocial, don't talk to me"?
LesG

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David Thorpe
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby David Thorpe » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:58 pm

Rod Cameron wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:Isn't it at least worth a try, perhaps starting at Scalefour North next year? If that happens I might actually go.

This is getting a bit surreal. Are you saying that your decision to go or not go is based on people wearing name badges?

Yes. It played a major part in my decision not to go to Scalefour North this year, the first I've missed for the last seven years.
Bluntly, I'm sick and tired of undertaking a 600 mile round trip merely to end up wandering around the show run by the society of which I am a fully paid up member not knowing who anyone is.
I'm sick and tired of leaving the show and going back to my hotel room for a rather lonely takeway.
I'm sick and tired of not being able to enjoy the socialisation that is apparently such an important part of the Scalefour shows. As Paul Townsend earlier said: "I reckon the social aspect is also important. Meeting old chums and exchanging reminiscences of the year's modelling successes and disasters." I've no old chums to meet at the show and until I actually get to know some people it seems unlikely that I ever will have. The constant objections raised to what seems a simple method of going at least some of the way towards alleviating this for myself and others really irk me.

It would be interesting to know what any newcomers might think, but of course very few of them seem to use this forum. I wonder why?
Rod Cameron wrote:For 2) and 3), you could contact them beforehand by PM, email or letter and arrange to meet, assuming they are themselves going. Or ask at the Society stand - they might be able to put out a PA.


For goodness sake........I cannot help but think that you entirely miss my point.

DT

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Will L
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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Will L » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:07 pm

allanferguson wrote:The poor souls who man the desk have enough problems without me. But when I tried to collect my (preordered) badge it appeared to cause a minor panic behind the desk -- and a bit of a queue behind me. I really felt I shouldn't bother -- but then they found it. But evidently name badges were not part of the routine.


As one who has done duty behind stand more than once I promise it is part of the routine and should only take a moment.* Certainly if we had a lot to hand out it would very rapidly become second nature even to the occasional occasional stand in. Truth is the numbers are generally small and I'm sure the stand manning party (not me this year) would be very happy to hand out a lot more,

Tim V wrote:
David Thorpe wrote:If they wore name badges I'd be able to recognise them. As it is, i could be standing next to such a person watching a leyout and neither of us would be any wiser as to other's identity.

Some people might like to speak to you. Unfortunately, your avatar does not give away what you look like. So they look frantically around at the name badges.

There was a campaign (by Danny I think it was - pre forum) to publish pictures of members of the society so we would recognise other members. Some people took advantage of this.


You will notice that my face is on the forum and particularly while standing behind the society I always wear my badge. Of the two, having you face on the forum is I think a bit more effective, so forum members have "a" solution in their own hands. However, human politeness being what it is I suspect (hope?) far more people workout who and what I am than ever let on. My memory has a black hole where names ought to be and I cant blame my age as I've always been like that. For me the problem is that when people obviously do know me and my works, I am often none the wiser about them. Though I do hope I hide it well!

*Now there is a hostage to fortune. Alan will now tell us it was me who couldn't find his badge. (I certainly don't remember such an occasion but age being what it is...)

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Re: Scaleforum 2019

Postby Armchair Modeller » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:25 pm

LesGros wrote:Richard,
Oh dear! :o Are you suggesting that the absence of a name-badge should be taken as code for: "I'm feeling antisocial, don't talk to me"?


Just imagine poor attendees strolling around the exhibition, proudly displaying their name badges, only to find that no one spoke to them all day. ;)


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