Warley 2017

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
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dcockling
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Warley 2017

Postby dcockling » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:27 pm

The Scalefour Society is at the Warley Show this weekend; looking forward to seeing lots of members and friends old and new.

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Last bit of setting up this morning, just before the show opened

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dcockling
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby dcockling » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:27 pm

Plenty of people around the two P4 layouts, Mostyn and Kettlewell

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Julian Roberts
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Julian Roberts » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:19 am

Is it not rather surprising that there are only two P4 layouts at one of the biggest shows of the modelling year?

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steamraiser
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby steamraiser » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:27 am

Given the range of interests, modelling skills and aspirations of modellers I am not surprised that there are only two P4 layouts at the Warley show.

Gordon A

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Guy Rixon
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Guy Rixon » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:54 am

Warley is resolutely coarse-scale, with a few, token, fine-scale layouts. This has been true for years. What struck me this time around was the increased fraction of toy-collecting exhibits. It's looking rather like the last years of IMREX where the proportion of good models of British railway scenes goes down and down and the old core of the hobby loses interest. Next year, I think I'll skip Warley unless I know they have 3+ layouts I particularly want to see.

The exhibition would be a lot nicer to visit if it wasn't at the National Embarrassment Centre.

I'm so glad that Mostyn was there. Far and away the best thing in the show, and made it worth the trip.

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steamraiser
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby steamraiser » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:21 pm

I am not surprised that there is only two P4 layouts at Warley.
Fine scale modellers form a small part of our hobby with those modelling to the correct gauge to scale ratio even smaller.
I only saw one 2mm and no 14.2mm 3mm layouts listed.

There are very few people who have all the skills to build a top notch layout, also such a layout takes a lot of time.
There are a number of people who are very good at a few of the modellers skills, but accept the inaccuracies of using rtr track and mechanisms.

All the model shows I know of are run to make a profit, so an organiser needs to invite a broad range of layouts and traders to attract maximum numbers of visitors.

Gordon A

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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:56 pm

I find that Warley is a bit hit and miss, some good stuff in amongst a sea of box shifters, not very good layouts, and the announcements of new RTR models that may eventually appear in about 10 years time.

This year there were a few very good finescale layouts in other scales. The S scale Cambrian layout was particularly good, in my humble opinion, as was the Welsh 2mm finescale and 4mm scale Cavan and Leitrim layouts. 'Leighton Buzzard' is always worth seeing as well.

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dcockling
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby dcockling » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:49 pm

Kettlewell won the LMS Society Award for the best LMS (and predecessors) Layout.

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And Mostyn won the Hornby Trophy for Modern Image and the Norman Cadge Award for the Best Signalled Model Railway

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Flymo748
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Flymo748 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:51 pm

pete_mcfarlane wrote:I find that Warley is a bit hit and miss, some good stuff in amongst a sea of box shifters, not very good layouts, and the announcements of new RTR models that may eventually appear in about 10 years time.

This year there were a few very good finescale layouts in other scales. The S scale Cambrian layout was particularly good, in my humble opinion, as was the Welsh 2mm finescale and 4mm scale Cavan and Leitrim layouts. 'Leighton Buzzard' is always worth seeing as well.


Apart from the obvious suspects of Kettlewell, Mostyn and Leighton Buzzard, from the trips which I had chance to take around the show over the weekend, my favourite by head and shoulders above the rest was this:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79299-hounslow-sidings/?p=2336402

Some wonderfully restrained modelling, very clever use of aids like mirrors to make it seem larger than it was, and you felt *cold* just looking at it...

Cheers
Flymo
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Le Corbusier
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:57 pm

dcockling wrote:Kettlewell won the LMS Society Award for the best LMS (and predecessors) Layout.


And Mostyn won the Hornby Trophy for Modern Image and the Norman Cadge Award for the Best Signalled Model Railway


Both look great in the photos .... excellent result :thumb

Found this of Mostyn which I enjoyed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuaWbU55Fm0
Last edited by Le Corbusier on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tim Lee

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dcockling
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby dcockling » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:58 pm

Additionally we were very pleased that Alan Buttler of Modelu was presented with the Gwyn Humphreys Award for Innovation; congratulations from the Scalefour Society, for this well deserved accolade.

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Picture courtesy of Paul Marshall-Potter

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Tim V
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Tim V » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:11 pm

Warley also showcases some excellent models, not necessarily in 4mm scale. If you want to go with closed minds, so be it, I personally found plenty to look at.
Tim V
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Noel
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Noel » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:50 pm

dcockling wrote:Kettlewell won the LMS Society Award for the best LMS (and predecessors) Layout.


I can only assume that the competition was either absent or even worse.
Regards
Noel

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iak
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby iak » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:40 pm

It is fair to say the the Mostyn crew had an enjoyable, if tiring weekend.
To have so many people around us was as rewarding as ever and to win the trophies just added the icing to the cake - especially the signalling award.
I personally enjoyed the show; yes, some exhibits are bit grating but all in all pleasurable. I also managed to have a few decent natters to some people without fading out, for a change :D
One chap especially seemed to like the Beastie and its myriad stock, recognising some of the rarer DMU's. It makes all the effort we put in worth it.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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Paul Townsend
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Paul Townsend » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:06 pm

I was disappointed by Mostyn.
I watched it twice for about 6 minutes each time.
On both occasions there were derailments that stopped all movements.
Also on both occasions they were running un-fitted freight trains (surprising in BR times) with no brake van.

I was so peeved by these trangressions that I didn't take notice of the signalling which seems a
shame as it got an award.

For me the best model was Kineton because it had several significant innovations, the team clearly think outside the box:
Baseboard underpinnings frame built from Alloy 20mm square tube
Lighting gantry support using extruded beam section in Alloy
Lasercut box fiddle cassettes and best of all:
N Gauge track handbuilt to be nearer prototype appearance....giving near 2mm finscale appearance with N guage stock compatibility.

I also liked the microlayouts with unusual features eg :
Hardly Mine Two

RichardS
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby RichardS » Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:52 pm

Tim V wrote:Warley also showcases some excellent models, not necessarily in 4mm scale. If you want to go with closed minds, so be it, I personally found plenty to look at.


Spot-on Tim. A wise modeller learns from everything he/she looks at.

Last year I and 3 colleagues went to Warley - here am I dabbling in P4, the 2nd is a good modeller building loco and stock kits and scratch-buildings (the rest of us are helping him build a code 100 layout - which I think will be above average), the 3rd models Swiss HO and is a keen on scenics, the 4th is keen on electronics DCC etc and chose American HO for his first layout.

The 4th has never modelled railways before although he assisted on a couple. All his stock is rtr, all his buildings ready to plant.

He is the only one of us with a completed layout.

We other three are all aiming for something with more fidelity to reality than the 4th's present layout. But none of us has a complete layout.

There's a moral there somewhere.

Anybody who participates in railway modelling whatever they do or how 'well' they do it is good for the wider hobby.
Kind regards
Richard

I'm not always a railway modelling heretic

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iak
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby iak » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:57 pm

Paul Townsend wrote:I was disappointed by Mostyn.
I watched it twice for about 6 minutes each time.
On both occasions there were derailments that stopped all movements.
Also on both occasions they were running un-fitted freight trains (surprising in BR times) with no brake van.

I was so peeved by these trangressions that I didn't take notice of the signalling which seems a
shame as it got an award.

For me the best model was Kineton because it had several significant innovations, the team clearly think outside the box:
Baseboard underpinnings frame built from Alloy 20mm square tube
Lighting gantry support using extruded beam section in Alloy
Lasercut box fiddle cassettes and best of all:
N Gauge track handbuilt to be nearer prototype appearance....giving near 2mm finscale appearance with N guage stock compatibility.

I also liked the microlayouts with unusual features eg :
Hardly Mine Two


One must have been unlucky then Paul.
We, as it's builders, felt that the Beastie behaved pretty well. As the unfitted freight without brakes, that would surprise me as we are such pick b#gg#ers :thumb
Mind, you cannae please all the punters all the time...
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it....

Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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John McAleely
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby John McAleely » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:38 pm

Noel wrote:I can only assume that the competition...


Noel, compared to some of the other critiques offered on this thread, I think that seems quite blunt and unhelpful. I assume the layout is the work of one of our members. They don’t appear to be on the thread to ask for clarification or further thoughts.

Would it be reasonable to ask for something more constructive, unless I’ve misunderstood?

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jim s-w
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby jim s-w » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:44 am

Paul Townsend wrote:Also on both occasions they were running un-fitted freight trains (surprising in BR times) with no brake van.


In the early blue era pretty much all trains had brake vans, unfitted or not. It was something to do with all trains had to have a guard and they weren’t permitted to ride in the rear cab of the loco. The only real difference between fitted and unfitted was the brakevan could be anywhere on the fitted trains.
Not sure what date the guards were allowed in the locos but no doubt someone will know.

HTH

Jim

John Palmer
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby John Palmer » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 am

jim s-w wrote:Not sure what date the guards were allowed in the locos but no doubt someone will know.


Presumably before the accident at Bridgwater on 23 October 1974, when 6V86 collided with the rear of 6V35. 6V86 was a fully fitted freight conveying 42 wagons of various types but no brake van. For this reason its guard was riding in the rear cab of the locomotive and regrettably received fatal injuries when that cab was crushed in the collision. Since the accident report contains no suggestion that the guard wasn't permitted to occupy the rear cab and the absence of a brake van is treated as unremarkable, I take it his presence there had by this date been officially sanctioned.

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Flymo748
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Flymo748 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:49 am

iak wrote:It is fair to say the the Mostyn crew had an enjoyable, if tiring weekend.
To have so many people around us was as rewarding as ever and to win the trophies just added the icing to the cake - especially the signalling award.
I personally enjoyed the show; yes, some exhibits are bit grating but all in all pleasurable. I also managed to have a few decent natters to some people without fading out, for a change :D
One chap especially seemed to like the Beastie and its myriad stock, recognising some of the rarer DMU's. It makes all the effort we put in worth it.


I didn't know you were there, or hear you mentioned, Iain. I'd have said hello if I had, as it's good to put a name to a face.

Richard was kind enough to invite me behind the scenes and explain how Mostyn is operated, and the measures to ensure reliable running. It's all very impressive, even if on rare occasions something disrupts normal service.

From the Society Stand opposite, there was certainly throng around the layout all weekend.

Cheers
Flymo
Beware of Trains - occasional modelling in progress!
www.5522models.co.uk

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iak
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby iak » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:06 am

Flymo748 wrote:
iak wrote:It is fair to say the the Mostyn crew had an enjoyable, if tiring weekend.
To have so many people around us was as rewarding as ever and to win the trophies just added the icing to the cake - especially the signalling award.
I personally enjoyed the show; yes, some exhibits are bit grating but all in all pleasurable. I also managed to have a few decent natters to some people without fading out, for a change :D
One chap especially seemed to like the Beastie and its myriad stock, recognising some of the rarer DMU's. It makes all the effort we put in worth it.


I didn't know you were there, or hear you mentioned, Iain. I'd have said hello if I had, as it's good to put a name to a face.

Richard was kind enough to invite me behind the scenes and explain how Mostyn is operated, and the measures to ensure reliable running. It's all very impressive, even if on rare occasions something disrupts normal service.

From the Society Stand opposite, there was certainly throng around the layout all weekend.

Cheers
Flymo


Hallo John.
I was there on the Saturday in my usual semi-blank state with my wife/minder/carer and my father-in-law.
Annoying not to make links agreed. I had better dog tag myself for Wakefield next year... :D
You can see now as to why Mostyn has aquired its nickname..... We had a number of new operators as well which made for some unique challenges.

Sláinte
Iain
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Perfection is impossible.
But I may choose to serve perfection....
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pete_mcfarlane
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby pete_mcfarlane » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:29 am

Paul Townsend wrote:For me the best model was Kineton because it had several significant innovations, the team clearly think outside the box:
Baseboard underpinnings frame built from Alloy 20mm square tube
Lighting gantry support using extruded beam section in Alloy
Lasercut box fiddle cassettes and best of all:
N Gauge track handbuilt to be nearer prototype appearance....giving near 2mm finscale appearance with N guage stock compatibility.

Yes, I was rather impressed by that layout, especially their track. I'd initially assumed it was 2mmFS until I started talking to one of the operators and discovered that it was N and quite capable of taking most RTR stock. They also said that the layout could also be configured for different periods, and they had multiple copies of their laser cut buildings configured for each era.

The laser cut perspex cassettes were also a fantastic idea.

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Noel
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Noel » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:45 am

John McAleely wrote:Noel, compared to some of the other critiques offered on this thread, I think that seems quite blunt and unhelpful. I assume the layout is the work of one of our members. They don’t appear to be on the thread to ask for clarification or further thoughts. Would it be reasonable to ask for something more constructive, unless I’ve misunderstood?


Hi, John. I nearly didn't respond to this, as I had said what I wanted to say, and didn't want to cause further offence. However, I will risk it...

I have no idea whether the owner is a member or not. I believe this is a rebuild of a layout which was previously EM, so the owner could be an EMGS member, as they also support P4. Equally, he might be a member of neither society. I don't think the question is really relevant, as my reaction would have been the same whatever the answer is. Just because a layout is P4, it doesn't make it a good layout; this is a fallacy which some EM modellers, at least, fell into the 1950s and 1960s with EM layouts.

I have not seen the layout; I'm just working from photographs, which can be misleading, I know. However, to me the layout has no real sense of time or place, and the design is reminiscent of the type of layout which was built in the 1950s, or even the 1930s, to cram far too much into a very confined space, ignoring real railway practice and requirements in the process. The scenic development is unconvincing for a number of reasons. To me, it is simply not at all believable as a model of something which might be real. I'm not sure how I can get anything constructive out of that. Or is it a case of 'Nil nisi bonum'?
Regards
Noel

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Warley 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:42 pm

Tim Lee


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