Railex 2017

Announcements, recommendations, visit reports etc. Discussion of the Society's own shows.
David Bigcheeseplant
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Railex 2017

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:58 pm

RAILEX 2017
Stoke Mandeville Stadium,
Stadium Approach,
Aylesbury,
Buckinghamshire.
HP21 9PP

27th & 28th May
 
http://www.railex.org.uk
 
Free vintage bus to Railex and return both days
 
 
Layouts Confirmed
7mm Scale
 
Denton Brook, O & 0-14 Gauge, Exhibited by Giles Favell, Denton Brook is the result of an industrial whimsy. A very minor cable manufacturer, in the early 60s, supplied by rail for the most part – this layout represents one small corner of the factory.
Harlyn Pier, O Gauge, Exhibited by Peter Beckley, The layout depicts the terminus of an imaginary (ex LSWR) branch line on the north coast of Cornwall not far from Padstow in the BR period circa 1960.
Pavilion End, O Gauge, Exhibited by David Hagger, Pavilion End is set in an industrial area, probably South Wales or it could be the West Midlands. The GWR and LNWR were competing for traffic and had met in an end on junction somewhere further along the line.
Penfold Priory, O Gauge, Exhibited by Bridgend Model Railway Group, The era is circa 1930/40 in GWR days with LMS having running rights. The trains enter the scene through the overbridge, with the loco shed facilities on the left. Passing the signal cabin and coal yard, coming into the busy terminus.
Tollesbury Quay, O Gauge, Exhibited by Martin Stringer, The Kelvedon and Tollesbury was a real branch line, though I moved the terminus to the busy little “hard” at the head of Woodrolfe Creek, the period modelled is the first few years of nationalisation.


1:50 Scale 
Pempoul, 18.2mm Gauge, Exhibited by Gordon & Maggie Gravett, The metre gauge Reseau Bréton system once served much of inland Brittany connecting rural villages and towns to SNCF main lines, this fictitious scene depicts a small section of the railway in the last years of its life along with a taste of the area through which it ran.


1/4inch Scale 
Boot, 3/4inch Gauge, Exhibited by Peter Kazer, Boot was the upper terminus for the 3' gauge Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway (known as Owd Ratty) and here it served the Nab Gill mine as well as the village of Boot.


1/64 (S) Scale 
Tresparrett Wharf, 22.45mm Gauge, Exhibited by Maurice Hopper, Set in an autumnal scene, this model depicts a siding in the style of the wharfs' found on the Bodmin and Wadebridge Railway in North Cornwall on an LSWR branch line around 1890.
Trowland, 22.45mm Gauge, Exhibited by Trevor Nunn, Trowland is set somewhere on the North Norfolk coast, close to the salt marshes and the sea. The Eastern & Midland Railway became part of the Midland & Great Northern Railway in 1893, and we see it, as it might have been, a year or so later.


4mm Scale 
Devil's Bridge, 009 Gauge, Exhibited by Eddie & Rachael Field, The Vale of Rheidol is a 1' 11½" Narrow Gauge line, which runs from Aberystwyth to Devils Bridge, Our model of Devil's Bridge is set in the late 1920s.
Horfield 1955-1961, 00 Gauge, Exhibited by Horfield Group (Bournemouth), A section of the Great Western four track main line existing Bristol North, set in the time period of 1955-1961, where a large variety of motive power and rolling stock can be seen.
Kirkmellington: EM Gauge, Graham & Tony Bucknell, Represents a small colliery in the NCB East Ayr area of Scotland. It is assumed to be on a small single track branch line off the main G&SWR main line from Carlisle to Kilmarnock that winds its way up into the Ayrshire hills near Patna and Dalmellington from the east.
Leeman Road (York) 1964, P4 Gauge, Exhibited by John Shaw, Part of the old steam depot at York as it was between the years 1962-1966: the steam engines were in decline and the depot’s sidings were filling up with new English Electric (class 40) diesels.
Sidmouth, P4 Gauge, Exhibited by Richard Harper, The model seen here represents Sidmouth as it was around summer 1959 or 1960. Viewed from the front of the layout, the line disappearing to the right would continue on to Tipton St John’s, Ottery St Mary and finally Sidmouth Junction.
Westcliff, EM Gauge, Exhibited by Richard Butler, Westcliff is a ‘might have been’ whose location is based on the Dorset seaside town of West Bay, Bridport’s harbour, as it might have evolved by the 1920s.
{C}

3mm Scale 
Heybridge Wharf, 14.2mm Gauge, Exhibited by Mike Corp, Heybridge Wharf is purely fictitious and is situated somewhere in Suffolk at one of the last inland wharfs still operating. The railway was built under the Light Railways act as the Hey Light Railway to connect the town of Heybridge to the Great Eastern Main Line via Heybridge Wharf.


2mm Scale 
Fence Houses, 9.42mm Gauge, Exhibited by Bob Jones & The Fence Houses Team, Our chosen period is British Rail 1952 - 1962, using steam and diesel locomotives. Many mainline workings operated through Fence Houses, due to engineering works and diversions taking place on the 'new' main line.
Hallam Town, 9.42mm Gauge, Exhibited by Alan Whitehouse, A little terminus set in South Yorkshire in the 1970s blue period that gives a real the whole thing an 'Eastern Region' feel.
William Smith's Wharf, 9.42mm Gauge, Jerry Clifford, The ‘Wharf’ is the latest, and smallest, addition to the series of layouts based on the fictitious North Somerset Light Railway (NSLR) as it might have looked in the 1920s.

Traders      
247 Developments: Etched name and numberplates, plus detail components and complete kits.
Alan Gibson: 4mm and 7mm wheels and kits.
ALL Components: All the electrical bits that you need to wire your layout.
AMBIS Engineering: Manufacturers of primarily etched components for modellers for 4mm or 7mm scales.
Bill Hudson Transport Books: Carrying a huge range of railway books both new and second-hand.
C&L Finescale Modelling Ltd: Track components and the Carrs range of solders and fluxes.
CPL Products: Couplings - Buffers - Etches - Interiors - Bogie frames - Transfers - Scale Rules - Accessories.
Ceynix Railway Trees: Handmade trees in various sizes made in the UK by a UK modeller.
Cheltenham Model Centre: Most ranges of RTR locos and rolling stock.
D&E Video - Realtrack Models - Legomanbiffo: Plastic kits for D&E modelling plus railway DVDs, and Fabulous Sound Decoders.
Dart Casting: Figures, rolling stock kits, road vehicles, you will find it all here.
Dragon Models - Minerva Model Railways: Have a range of 7mm and 4mm etched brass kits, plus a ready to run loco.
Eileen's Emporium: Tools, sheet metal, rod, tube and any thing else you need for scratch building.
Golden Arrow Productions: Locos not supplied by the main manufactures.
Gramodels: Suppliers of quality resin Military Vehicles/Equipment from 2mm to 7mm.
Green Scene: For all your scenic modelling needs.
High Level: Producer of state-of-the-art 4mm scale kits of the more appealing and unusual industrial locomotives.
Hobby Holidays: A husband and wife team offering "Hobbies with Hospitality".
Ian's Trains: Pre-owned OO & N gauge rolling stock.
Isinglass Models: Suppliers of fine scale LNER drawings used and recommended by modellers for over 40 years.
Judith Edge Kits: 4 & 7mm scale brass kits for industrial diesels.
London Road Models: Designing and manufacturing of 4mm locos and rolling stock etched kits.
M.A.R.C. Models - Electrifying Trains: Loco hauled coaches rtr, SR EMU's rtr, coach kit manufacturers.
Model Railway Developments: Wagon and Coach underframe kits and bits, pre-assembled sprung buffers and white metal figures.
Modelu: Specialising in high resolution 3D printing of scale figures and detailed component parts.
N Brass Locos: Brass kits for N gauge.
Parkside Dundas: Produce an extensive range of rolling stock kits, mostly wagons from the post group period, from 2mm to 7mm.
PenBits Model Railways: A range of etched brass kits for adding sprung suspensions to proprietary 4mm scale diesel locomotives.
Plus Daughters: N & Z gauge RTR and detailing parts.
Quainton Road Models: Specialises in kits and accessories for the Great Central Railway and the Metropolitan Railway.
Radley Models: Provides resin and white metal kits (ex Harrow Model Shop) for tube and surface kits for London Transport railway models.
Replica Railways: RTR, spares, transfers and the replica range of coaches.
Road Transport Images: A range of resin-bodied/whitemetal road vehicle kits.
Roger Carpenter Photographs: Looking for that picture of a station or piece of rolling stock, you should find it here.
Roxey Mouldings: Mostly southern railway kits in 4 & 7mm scales.
Rumney Models: Offer a range of finescale kits and components for the late steam / early diesel modeller.
Severn Models: Create model kits in etched brass, ideal for model railway builders.
Shawplan - Extreme Etchings: Manufacturer of British Rail Modern Traction 2mm, 4mm and 7mm Nameplates and Detailing Kits.
South Eastern Finecast: Cast white metal locomotive kits in 4mm scale.
Sunningwell Command Control Ltd: Digitrax, Soundtraxx, North Coast Engineering, Train Control Systems (TCS) and CML and other products.
Tools 2000: Comprehensive selection of the Expo Drills and Tools for all your model making needs.
Wild Swan Books Ltd: All the Wild Swan books and Magazines can be purchased here.
Wizard Models: Specialise in providing kits and components to our fellow model railway enthusiasts, particularly in 4mm and 7mm.
David

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kelly
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby kelly » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:24 pm

Hoping to be there again, really enjoyed last years show.
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David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:04 pm

Although not P4 Railex 2017 will be the final showing of Maggie & Gordon Gravett Pempoul at an exhibition, Also well worth seeing is Martin Stringer Tollesbury Quay which will have a very rare exhibition showing. in P4 we have Leman Road York and Sidmouth

David
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Steve Carter
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Steve Carter » Wed May 24, 2017 7:33 pm

The Society Stand will be at Railex this weekend where Mike Ainsworth, Danny Cockling and I will be promoting P4 and the Scalefour Society.

We are Stand 67 and we look forward to seeing many of you. So if you are coming then please drop by and say hello.

If you still need to renew your membership then you will be able to that at Railex on the Society Stand.

Steve
Steve Carter

David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Thu May 25, 2017 6:46 am

Only a few days till Railex, hopefully the ice cream van will be outside!

JFS
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby JFS » Mon May 29, 2017 4:07 pm

David Bigcheeseplant wrote:Only a few days till Railex ...!


No one seems to have commented post-event - so I will!

We went on the Sunday and it was really excellent - some top-drawer layouts on show, good selection of traders, clubs etc. Great to speak to so many people. Bad news: I did not get to speak to any of the bods on the society stand, but the good news is: that's because they were always so busy!

So well done and many thanks to David and all the others involved in the organisation.

Best wishes,

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Steve Carter
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Steve Carter » Mon May 29, 2017 4:39 pm

JFS wrote:
David Bigcheeseplant wrote:Only a few days till Railex ...!


No one seems to have commented post-event - so I will!

We went on the Sunday and it was really excellent - some top-drawer layouts on show, good selection of traders, clubs etc. Great to speak to so many people. Bad news: I did not get to speak to any of the bods on the society stand, but the good news is: that's because they were always so busy!

So well done and many thanks to David and all the others involved in the organisation.

Best wishes,


Sorry I missed you Howard. I'm glad you enjoyed the exhibition.

Yes Mike, Danny and I were busy on the Society Stand.

Many members dropped by just to say "hello" or have a chat. Thank you :thumb

We had lots of interest and varied questions which, I'm sure, we managed to help with :?:
Two visitors, both new to P4, went away with a 'P4 Starter Pack' and one person, who had spent a long time on the stand, then went away only to return later with rail and chairs from C & L so he could "have a go". Brilliant :P

Four new members were recruited and several members renewed as well. So I would say the Society Stands presence at Railex 2017 was a success.

All the best

Steve

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dcockling
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby dcockling » Mon May 29, 2017 7:35 pm

And there we were:

DSCF2262.JPG


DSCF2263.JPG

Mike and Steve with Tony Osmond and Colin McCallum

All the Best
Danny

dal-t
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby dal-t » Tue May 30, 2017 6:09 am

Stop teasing us, tell us what we all want to know - did the ice-cream van turn up? And did it have P4 ice-cream?
David L-T

David Bigcheeseplant
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby David Bigcheeseplant » Tue May 30, 2017 6:43 am

Yes the ice cream van was there and P4 types hade the wider flake in the 99

dal-t
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby dal-t » Tue May 30, 2017 11:36 am

Well, that's a relief - no, no, no, not extra carriages, just good to know all the essential elements were in place for everyone to have a good time.
David L-T

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Tue May 30, 2017 9:44 pm

Steve Carter wrote:
JFS wrote:
David Bigcheeseplant wrote:Only a few days till Railex ...!


No one seems to have commented post-event - so I will!

We went on the Sunday and it was really excellent - some top-drawer layouts on show, good selection of traders, clubs etc. Great to speak to so many people. Bad news: I did not get to speak to any of the bods on the society stand, but the good news is: that's because they were always so busy!

So well done and many thanks to David and all the others involved in the organisation.

Best wishes,


Sorry I missed you Howard. I'm glad you enjoyed the exhibition.

Yes Mike, Danny and I were busy on the Society Stand.

Many members dropped by just to say "hello" or have a chat. Thank you :thumb

We had lots of interest and varied questions which, I'm sure, we managed to help with :?:
Two visitors, both new to P4, went away with a 'P4 Starter Pack' and one person, who had spent a long time on the stand, then went away only to return later with rail and chairs from C & L so he could "have a go". Brilliant :P

Four new members were recruited and several members renewed as well. So I would say the Society Stands presence at Railex 2017 was a success.

All the best

Steve

Steve Carter
Membership Secretary


Weill done in signing up four new members. Clearly they or the purchasers of the P4 Starter Packs didn't see Tony Osmond praying for inspiration or the exhibition problems one P4 layout was suffering and which has provided Tony Wright with another opportunity to belittle P4 on his RMweb thread.

JFS
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby JFS » Wed May 31, 2017 7:49 pm

Jol Wilkinson wrote:
... which has provided Tony Wright with another opportunity to belittle P4 on his RMweb thread.


Sorry I walked past on Sunday - only because you were busy selling!

I see that you did respond in Tony (Wright's) RMWeb thread. Every time I read such comments from him about how well LB runs, I am tempted to shout "THAT IS BECAUSE THE TRACK WAS PROFESSIONALLY BUILT (not because it is 00 !)"

Best Wishes,

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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Horsetan » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:11 am

Jol Wilkinson wrote:... provided Tony Wright with another opportunity to belittle P4 on his RMweb thread.


Perhaps TW doesn't get invited to see P4 layouts that run flawlessly because the owners and operators don't want to be damned with faint praise.
That would be an ecumenical matter.

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:54 pm

Horsetan wrote:
Jol Wilkinson wrote:... provided Tony Wright with another opportunity to belittle P4 on his RMweb thread.


Perhaps TW doesn't get invited to see P4 layouts that run flawlessly because the owners and operators don't want to be damned with faint praise.


Just for balance and fairness .....

Tony Wright just returned from visiting the Spalding show this weekend observed on his RMWeb thread ...
As for the show itself, though I didn't have too much time to browse, it seemed a good one and was very well-attended.

Pete Goss's Worlds End won both the public and exhibitors' pots.
post-18225-0-66024000-1510516374.jpg


My personal favourite was St. Merryn. Built in P4, this ran superbly throughout the show and is so natural in its appearance.
post-18225-0-88008900-1510516435.jpg



I didn't take a camera with me, so these are images from previous shows.

Speaking of running, on some of the layouts there were too many hands of God at times. Some ran very well - as well as they looked, but some others, even though they looked 'pretty', didn't work quite so well in my experience. On one, though the architectural modelling was excellent, the railway aspect just didn't 'work' in my opinion. Some dodgy locos, non-working signals (weirdly-placed) and a total lack of lamps did nothing to aid any railway realism on it. It was not alone in having non-working signals, nor in having a complete lack of lamps present on steam locos. Why is this? Do folk not observe real railways?


Doesn't appear to be damning with faint praise.

Well done to St Merryn ... high praise indeed I would suggest.
Tim Lee

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Jol Wilkinson
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Jol Wilkinson » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:23 am

Tim,

I quote Tony Wrights post in its entirety from his RMWeb thread after Railex 2017

"Just returned from a truly-splendid show - Railex in Aylesbury. My thanks to all at Risborough for putting on such a wonderful event.

Everything was of the usual high standard and well-presented.

Just one thing. Whenever I looked at one 4mm layout in the most-accurate gauge (three separate times), something derailed, fell off or had to be prodded. There was a much larger OO layout running far more trains where I didn't see this happen. I have no wish to restart the old 'argument', but if the running on my own 'crude' railway were as poor as what I saw today on a fine scale one, I would be very concerned. One other observer commented to me that it was a 'brilliant diorama', which it was.

Other than that, if you missed Railex, you've missed one of the best shows so far this year. It's worth making a date for next year.
"

Why did he feel the need to single out that particular layout's problems. Did every other layout run perfectly, continually? The believe the P4 layout in question was behind the London Road Models stand so John Redrup and I saw some of the distress they suffered when the layout didn't perform as they wished. The larger OO layout praised was probably the one which, as far as I could see, didn't have any pointwork and once a train got going out of the fiddle yard, all it had to do was run through the scenic section.

Tony's "Wright Writes" thread on RMweb has many good points, in particular Tony's "crusade" for building models from kits rather than simply buying RTR. However, there is, also from several other contributors, the repeated assertion that P4 is difficult to do and not worth the effort. Heavy locos with rigid chassis will always perform well, OO coaches don't wobble - or if they do are easily fixed with bits of plasticard - and track can be laid perfectly flat so that compensation or springing is unnecessary ."I tried to build a compensated chassis once and gave up", claimed one contributor recently implying that such technology is no good, rather than he did it wrongly.

If all those claims are correct, then I am wasting my time with P4 and should have gone with EM.

Tony has become a major celebrity in the 4mm world that many people take what he and others say on his Wright Writes as gospel. Nobody on here "rubbishes" OO or EM, why do people do that with P4?

Jol

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Re: Railex 2017

Postby martin goodall » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:30 am

I am not sure why this issue should surface here more than 5 months after the show in question.

One has to look at it from the visitor’s point of view. Most visitors spend only a few hours at an exhibition, and so the impression they form is inevitably coloured by their experience on the day. If a layout is performing less well when they see it than might be hoped or expected, then this will be a disappointment. The scale or gauge of the layout is immaterial.

A visitor disappointed in this way is perfectly entitled to voice their disappointment, no matter who they are. None of us is immune from criticism, and we really have no excuse to be thin-skinned about it. If there is a problem with a layout (or with certain items of rolling stock) at a particular show, then the answer is to investigate the cause or causes and remedy them before the layout’s next appearance. Complaining about ‘unfair’ criticism solves nothing.

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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 am

Jol,

I can't disagree with anything you say ... and being a relatively new returnee to railway modelling I will have far less of the back story than many others. Though I would say I don't get quite the same sense of animosity towards P4 on Wright Writes that you suggest ... more the belief that it involves a degree of skill that may be more than many people either have or are willing to develop (I would not argue with their assessment - I have noted that people in our society often seem blithely unaware of the incredible level of skill and proficiency they take for granted). I think that because of this, P4 layouts will always be held to higher standards than others - exhibitors beware. ;)

During the two or three years I have been aware of Tony Wright ( and specifically Wright Writes) my observation is that he can be quite abrasive across the board (where he has a particular bug bear) - he is quite brusque in expressing opinions however true they may be ... though he is also incredibly supportive and very generous and helpful with his advice. He is meticulous in giving credit where he feels credit is due.

For my part I was rather chuffed that he singled out St Merryn as his favourite in the show. Given the back story you allude to, if Tony Wright singled it out then it must be pretty special - I bought the book on St Merryn last year and am very much looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.

Also ... I may be wrong but I suspect he has been nettled by criticism (or perceived criticism) from the finer scales in the past because of his decision to stick with 00 and this may well be tinged with a little regret (defensiveness) that he decided not to pursue a different path himself. He is on record I believe for having said that if he were starting again he would model in EM. People are often not as self confident and thick skinned as we might initially think.

On compensation (or indeed springing), I don't think anyone was arguing that if done proficiently it didn't work, nor that in P4 it wasn't necessary .. just that they found it a difficult art to master and that for 00 and even EM they could get away without it - indeed that their efforts with compensation ran worse than when using a rigid chassis.

I didn't take away from this that compensation was bad but rather that they had failed to implement it. Hypothetically, it would be interesting to get hold of one of Tony Wrights attempts at compensation to analyse what is happening, as he even asserted in his Snooze article that he had never satisfactorily mastered the process (I am assuming here that compensated locos can comfortably run at scale speed 80mph plus reliably?).

I can say that it was with great relief that my own first attempt at compensation (albeit only a simple 0-6-0) ran well around the Scaleforum test track this year as I was pretty nervous before its trial.
Tim Lee

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Noel
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Noel » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:34 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:I am assuming here that compensated locos can comfortably run at scale speed 80mph plus reliably?


I think with modern familiarity with speed, we forget just how few steam railway services ever ran at that sort of speed. Those that did would only have appeared on major main lines. Even then, average express service speeds in 1939 on major lines only varied between about 45 and 55 mph; less important trains, and those on secondary lines would have been slower, much slower for an unfitted freight. Averages will hide higher speeds between stations, and much lower speeds where the train is stopping at a station, of course, but even to achieve these sorts of speeds realistically really requires a large continuous layout, which has always been fairly rare in P4. Few P4 locos will ever be asked to run at that sort of speed normally, except, perhaps, when being tested. DCC fitted locos in particular may, by design, be incapable of reaching those speeds.

The other issue is the track. Ready to run OO has to cope with whatever the owner wants, which the maker can't anticipate, and so designs accordingly. Take it out of the box and put the loco on the track and it will at least run in normal use without falling off. P4 track is hand made; the loco may have problems, or it may be OK but being subject to influences from poor track, or both may be at fault, and track problems may be rooted in baseboard problems. Reliability is down to more than just the loco; there is a limit to the track issues that any compensated or sprung loco can be expected to cope with.
Regards
Noel

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Re: Railex 2017

Postby John Palmer » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:46 pm

In my limited experience of exhibiting I have always striven to put on a show in which the layout functions as near flawlessly as possible, ideally as a result of a tuning and bug eradication process that has been carried out in the weeks leading up to the event. However I'm not prepared to don the hairshirt quite as readily as Martin proposes because, however assiduous our preparations, there will always be factors at work over which we have little control and which can have an adverse effect upon the quality of running. Of these I have found humidity and temperature critical, high humidity in particular being capable of degrading electrical pick up and reducing locomotive performance to mediocrity. I can and do try to mitigate this at the design stage by maximising the number of wheels collecting current and thereafter by scrupulous wheel and track cleaning, but a thick press of exhibition visitors respiring over the layout will inevitably take some toll on performance. I've previously commented upon the delights of being parked next to the live steam exhibit (every item of rolling stock required the clag to be scraped of its wheels after a day's running), and I'm not sure that the output of simulated steam/exhaust generators on a nearby layout can be significantly less detrimental in its effects.

I am interested by Tony Wright's criticism of the absence of lamps on models of steam locomotives. What, exactly, is he advocating? Lamps fixed to one end of the engine or another? On end to end workings that will almost inevitably mean that half the time such lamps are no longer on the front end of the train. And what about tail lamps? As every signalman knows, a train is a device for conveying the tail lamp from one block post to the next, and a vital indication of whether such train is complete. So a tail lamp on the end of a vehicle adjacent to the locomotive as the train makes its return journey is a no-no, particularly if there's no tail lamp at t'other end. In theory the availability of the exquisite Modelu lamps should make the carriage of proper lamps more readily attainable, but the price to be paid on a model of a terminus is at least two extra descents of the Hand of God: one to change the head code, the other to switch the tail lamp's position. You just can't win...

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:38 pm

John Palmer wrote:I am interested by Tony Wright's criticism of the absence of lamps on models of steam locomotives. What, exactly, is he advocating?


To be fair this particular comment followed on from a fair bit of discussion about lamps previously on the thread ... debating just the issues you raise. The consensus was that come what may not having any lamps at all would be the worst of all worlds. There was a full understanding of the complexity and compromises involved - and the fact that choice of specific compromise would differ.

But not sure any of this is particularly relevant ... just thought it would be nice to pass on the praise of St Merryn.

Actually here is some more.....

quote Tony Wright on 'Wright Writes' wrote:Tim,

There is no better example than St. Merryn of how good a P4 layout can look and (most important) can run. This is because the team who built it is comprised of some very high-standard modellers. Standards achieved by only a few in my experience. That's not to say I don't believe you're capable of building to high standards (you've shown your work), but the gauge is definitely not for all. It's definitely not for me because I'm not a skilled enough modeller. This is not false-modesty, just fact.

It would seem that OO Gauge is not for all if the running on one 16.5mm system was anything to go by at Spalding (though it did get better, to be fair). Even EM was not exempt - pretty structures, but inconsistent running and non-working signals.
Tim Lee

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Le Corbusier
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:47 pm

Noel wrote:
Le Corbusier wrote:I am assuming here that compensated locos can comfortably run at scale speed 80mph plus reliably?


I think with modern familiarity with speed, we forget just how few steam railway services ever ran at that sort of speed. Those that did would only have appeared on major main lines. Even then, average express service speeds in 1939 on major lines only varied between about 45 and 55 mph; less important trains, and those on secondary lines would have been slower, much slower for an unfitted freight. Averages will hide higher speeds between stations, and much lower speeds where the train is stopping at a station, of course, but even to achieve these sorts of speeds realistically really requires a large continuous layout, which has always been fairly rare in P4. Few P4 locos will ever be asked to run at that sort of speed normally, except, perhaps, when being tested. DCC fitted locos in particular may, by design, be incapable of reaching those speeds.

The other issue is the track. Ready to run OO has to cope with whatever the owner wants, which the maker can't anticipate, and so designs accordingly. Take it out of the box and put the loco on the track and it will at least run in normal use without falling off. P4 track is hand made; the loco may have problems, or it may be OK but being subject to influences from poor track, or both may be at fault, and track problems may be rooted in baseboard problems. Reliability is down to more than just the loco; there is a limit to the track issues that any compensated or sprung loco can be expected to cope with.


I understood that on the Little Bytham portion of the main line the large pacific expresses regularly hit 80mph (and greater) and I think that this capability is one of the governing criteria for his model. Isn't this the portion of line where Mallard achieved the record?
Tim Lee

Crepello
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Crepello » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Le Corbusier wrote:I understood that on the Little Bytham portion of the main line the large pacific expresses regularly hit 80mph (and greater) and I think that this capability is one of the governing criteria for his model. Isn't this the portion of line where Mallard achieved the record?

To achieve this it is a necessarily large layout. I wonder how well it would perform after extrication from its home and re-erection for 2 days in a public exhibition venue?

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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Tim V » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:25 pm

Is TW referring to the large layout I saw at Railex that had no points on the scenic side?

If so I was looking at the operators - not the layout. All had expressions of absolute concentration as the trains went round the layout. It took four of them to watch the train proceed through the scenic section. Were they enjoying themselves? Didn't look like it to me.

As opposed to the large 2mm layout. The operators there turned their backs on the train as it left the staging roads - now that speaks (to me) of confidence that the train would arrive back in the staging roads in one piece. Were they enjoying themselves? Yes.
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Re: Railex 2017

Postby Le Corbusier » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:45 pm

Tim V wrote:Is TW referring to the large layout I saw at Railex that had no points on the scenic side?

If so I was looking at the operators - not the layout. All had expressions of absolute concentration as the trains went round the layout. It took four of them to watch the train proceed through the scenic section. Were they enjoying themselves? Didn't look like it to me.

As opposed to the large 2mm layout. The operators there turned their backs on the train as it left the staging roads - now that speaks (to me) of confidence that the train would arrive back in the staging roads in one piece. Were they enjoying themselves? Yes.


You may well be right Tim,

As an observation though ... were I to have the privilege of being asked to operate any of the layouts at Scaleforum I am pretty certain that for the first few shows I would evidence the same levels of concentration and concern (not being an old hand). Part of the joy for me of watching Clutton (and others) was how relaxed and in control everyone was ... allowing not only a great viewing experience but also the chance to chat companionably with the onlookers.
Tim Lee


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