Scalefour North 2017

[iak]

The bairns are our hobbies future.
I have found that they operate to a higher standard than some adults...
Wibble

[Wizard of the Moor]

Just for the record, the Walton-Evans Trophy was awarded to Barry Luck for Plumpton Green. Cheddar S&DJR came second, and Witton Junction Shed was third.

Duncan Wilcock won the Eileen's Emporium prize for the best scratchbuilt model with his LMS roadstone skip wagons.

Congratulations to Barry and Duncan!

My sincere thanks to all the visitors, exhibitors, traders and last, but by no means least, the stewards who volunteer their time to make the show such a success.

Scalefour North 2018 will be held on April 14/15th 2018.

[dcockling]

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[Terry Bendall]

My sincere thanks to all the visitors, exhibitors, traders and last, but by no means least, the stewards who volunteer their time to make the show such a success.

Indeed and thanks are due also to James for all his work in organising things. As always it was a very good show and I gather numbers were good. On Saturday morning the crowds meant that it was quite hard to move around in some parts of the hall. Something that is not usually appreciated is the amount of work needed to clear up at the end of Sunday afternoon and it was good to see so many people sharing this task.

Terry Bendall

[David Thorpe]

It was of course a perfectly decent show (and that is not meant to be damning by faint praise) but I do think that the format is now a bit tired and that changes could be made. That, of course, forms a discussion topic every year, and as the vast majority of the membership appears to be very happy with the way things are I don't anticipate anything radical happening.

DT

[Tim V]

I don't know what you mean by "tired"?

Was it a club show? Yes
Was it worth going to? Yes
Would I go again (400 mile round trip)? Yes

[kelly]

I don't know what you mean by "tired"?

Was it a club show? Yes
Was it worth going to? Yes
Would I go again (400 mile round trip)? Yes

Very much second that (though 225 miles rather than 400).

[essdee]

Hi David,

We were adjacent to you (with Colin, was it?) at the dinner some years back, and had a good natter on matters various. Sorry I did not get to catch your eye over the weekend, was all rather 'focussed' - hope you did enjoy all though, including your lengthy journeys from The North.

From my side of the demo table - which meant I had zero time during the show to absorb the layouts, visit traders (honourable exception being my delegation of Mrs. D, to Dave Franks for CSB wire), and generally chat, it seemed a healthy buzz, especially on Saturday. I still miss the intimacy of the previous venue, but that's hardly the fault of the organisers, and I am getting used to QEGS now.

I look forward to the 2018 show eagerly - fortunate that Jen enjoys 'what we do', as it will include her birthday (she is currently engrossed in MRJ 254 with Martin Finney's superlative recreation of my former local station at Semley - which incidentally has rendered me incoherent with delight).

For me, it's the annual catch up with far-flung friends from Somerset, Scotland and elsewhere, as much as any physical show format, which has always (from 1981 in my case) made Scalefour North ESSENTIAL.

My only 'wish' - even for the norm when I am not involved, is that it was a three-day event, with a dedicated 'social' day, the better to blether! I did - only part jokingly - make that comment to Fiona Franks during packing up; understandably, I got a 'look', to suggest this was 'Not A Good Idea', and I can fully understand that viewpoint from traders and exhibitors - let alone James and the team.

Coming back to David's original point, however; from my own demo's perspective, I am always conscious that I am talking/explaining rather than actually 'demonstrating'. I always bring soldering iron, jigs etc, but have never in three sessions actually assembled anything! I could almost do with two of me, one to be dealing with queries, showing how I have done things, running my locos etc, and one to be actually working through a couple of chassis builds, allowing beginners/less experienced folk to have a hands-on 'feel' of what is happening. Obviously H&S comes into play with soldering, use of grinding discs etc. This is becoming more of a 'workshop' set up, admittedly - but is there in fact a real wish for it, from the audience?

It would be useful for me to get a 'steer' from my 'customers', beyond the very welcome kind words of appreciation that I have received, to enable me to improve my presentation for the future!

Meanwhile, once again many thanks to James and his team for the invite, and to those who called by and gave me a very intensive but rewarding two-way exchange of views and experience.

Best wishes,

Steve

[David Thorpe]

Was it a club show? Yes

I'm not quite sure of the point you're trying to make by that. However, I may be being slightly pedantic, but no, it was a Society show. I think of a club as being something local, whileas a society has members all over the place. The social aspect of Scalefour North means that for those members who know others, the show can be a very enjoyable social occasion. For those members who don't and are maybe a bit on the shy side it isn't (and probably never will be as long as members refuse to wear name badges).

Was it worth going to? Yes

That's very much subjective. I'm not sure. You tell me why it is worth a 400 mile round trip to go to.

Would I go again (400 mile round trip)? Yes

You would, but if it wasn't for the fact that attendance at the show gives me the opportunity to visit friends in Nottinghamshire, I don't think I would. I have to ask myself if it is worth the 625 mile round trip, and the £200+ cost of travel, accommodation and food.

I don't know what you mean by "tired"?

I commented at considerable length on that way back in February 2015 in a thread "Scaleforum Attendance and Location". My post then didn't draw much of a reaction so I don't really see an awful lot of point in going over it again here.

DT

[PeteT]

Was it a club show? Yes

The social aspect of Scalefour North means that for those members who know others, the show can be a very enjoyable social occasion. For those members who don't and are maybe a bit on the shy side it isn't (and probably never will be as long as members refuse to wear name badges).

DT

This is a difficult one, but there are ways and means. If people have specific other people they wish to meet (say, having seen modelling or had discussion online) then they can pre arrange this. More flippantly one could say you get out what you put in, but I agree that from the outside it could be seen as difficult to 'break in' . Another way to do it would be to visit the society stand and ask there for either an individual, or an expert in x.

I spent both days there, partially helped by the social aspect of people from my 2 local area groups (Bristol and Glevum) and people who I have got to know either through them or though interactions of my own. Last year I left at about mid day on Sunday and went home via Butterley, this year (while some of the Bristol group went via the coal mining museum) a couple of us stayed at the show til the end, because there was plenty to keep me occupied and I still didnt do everything!

Steve - to answer your direct question, I found it very useful as you were. It wasnt til late on Sunday that I visited your patch but having specific interest in tender mounted motors in 0-6-0s at the moment I had found your Snooze article very timely, and discussing it a bit further in person was very useful to clarify things in my mind. I'm of the opinion that these demo's do work best with several items of stock around which can be used to show various states of completion, and various techniques for driving, springing, etc and use them as discussion points, rather than having 1 project in front of you with its specific set of challenges as the obvious starting point for discussion.

The only slight downside I could say was that there weren't as many layouts on display as sometimes, but that was mainly due to Calcutta Sidings being as large as it is. That in itself is good to have there in terms of showing the large P4 layouts can be done, so it's a double edged sword!

Dates in the diary for next year, thanks Jamie!

[PeteT]

Further to my previous reply, and having had time to look back to the topic David referred to, I'm not sure on the changes that are being proposed. The two objections to the current North/South/South West shows, if I have read it correctly, are demonstrations and location.

I think there is a trend of more experienced modellers that they don't get as much out of demo's as they used to - partly as they forget things on the way home, but partly as they probably have amassed an armory of techniques which work for them. As a youth (by society standards at least!) I use my phone to either take photos for reference, or to make notes. I find demos very useful, and a good way to meet people too. What would they be replaced by, in the context of a show with lots of people milling around as opposed to the Missenden concept which is a completely different beast?

As for not enough going on in Scotland (or any geographical location for that matter), I'm sure the society would support anything anyone would like to host... but it is a chicken and egg problem. Fewer people from the south will travel, those from the North of England would consider it in the same terms that Southern and Scottish based people consider S4N, and there are fewer people based in Scotland for whom it is the home patch. I agree that waiting for people to join up before hosting there isnt the way forward, but what is...

I am just trying to develop a useful discussion on the topic, and am certainly not anti change - but I'm not quite sure what is broken that can be fixed for the greater benefit.

[Will L]

Coming back to David's original point, however; from my own demo's perspective, I am always conscious that I am talking/explaining rather than actually 'demonstrating'. I always bring soldering iron, jigs etc, but have never in three sessions actually assembled anything! I could almost do with two of me, one to be dealing with queries, showing how I have done things, running my locos etc, and one to be actually working through a couple of chassis builds, allowing beginners/less experienced folk to have a hands-on 'feel' of what is happening. Obviously H&S comes into play with soldering, use of grinding discs etc. This is becoming more of a 'workshop' set up, admittedly - but is there in fact a real wish for it, from the audience?

It would be useful for me to get a 'steer' from my 'customers', beyond the very welcome kind words of appreciation that I have received, to enable me to improve my presentation for the future!

My experience suggest that doing a demo stand, you are far more likely to be dismembering things (to show how they work) than you ever are to actually build anything. I think it worth pointing out that where people have actually tried to build things on a demo stand, most people find it very hard to interrupt somebody who appears to be involved in what they are doing, so few questions get asked, which rather misses the point. To get people to talk to you, you first need to get eye contact. Try doing that in mid solder. I thought you were doing a good job.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Demonstrating shouldn't be about building your models, although I have seen occasions where that is the apparent intent of the demonstrator, rather than talking with interested parties. Some even boast about how much they actually made over the course of a show.

If you don't actually build anything, but discuss with people how they can do it, then surely that's what it is about. The opportunity for people to get hands on, as Andy W of this forum showed to good effect when he demo'd Resistance Soldering at ExpoEM last year, is also very effective in overcoming peoples fear of "having a go".

[Paul Willis]

Coming back to David's original point, however; from my own demo's perspective, I am always conscious that I am talking/explaining rather than actually 'demonstrating'. I always bring soldering iron, jigs etc, but have never in three sessions actually assembled anything! I could almost do with two of me, one to be dealing with queries, showing how I have done things, running my locos etc, and one to be actually working through a couple of chassis builds, allowing beginners/less experienced folk to have a hands-on 'feel' of what is happening. Obviously H&S comes into play with soldering, use of grinding discs etc. This is becoming more of a 'workshop' set up, admittedly - but is there in fact a real wish for it, from the audience?

It would be useful for me to get a 'steer' from my 'customers', beyond the very welcome kind words of appreciation that I have received, to enable me to improve my presentation for the future!

My experience suggest that doing a demo stand, you are far more likely to be dismembering things (to show how they work) than you ever are to actually build anything.

Speaking of which, I have in safe custody the cab roof from your J65

Cheers
Flymo

[Will L]

Are, I hadn't noticed. I must have left in too much of a hurry.

Thank you.

Scaleforum?

I'll send myself a diary note to remind you .

[essdee]

Ha! Glad it's not just me that leaves a trail of components after a show....

Keith Bradbury has just informed me that Steve Hall picked up a single loco frame with two Brassmasters bearings fitted, as a demo 'hack' - in the car park! He knew it was near where I parked and conferred with Keith... today I had not yet noticed its absence, and indeed swore that I had unpacked it when home! But no, it's mine for sure.

As to how it escaped from a box in a travel bag...? I strongly suspect that in the hall one of its sharper points, eg. guard iron, embedded in my sweatshirt as I packed up; it had lain along the top of the test track, where I would have easily brushed it while packing the locos - remained during transit to car park, and dropped off during raising or lowering tailgate.

PHEWW! Many thanks, Steve and Keith - saved me much head-scratching and tedious replicating of its twin milled frame.

A salutary warning though. Any advance on cab roof, mainframe....?

Cheers,

Steve

[Enigma]

A salutary warning though. Any advance on cab roof, mainframe....?

Contents of wallet?

[essdee]

Isn't that a Scalefour Exhibition standard though, Paul?!

S.